Comparing moose to wigfrid.

[Wonz]

I saw people talk about moose so why not compare it to someone actually OP

Moose:
90% damage reduction, should last for 1500 damage against such as invincible deerclops(would die before moose normally) it lasts 80 seconds, if you put 1,5hp regen every 5 seconds it will last 95 seconds moose .
Moose would heal 28,5HP during that period making his effective hp 1785.

Wigfrid with her helmet and battle spear:
Remember she reduces damage incoming by 25%
So deerclops will actually deal 56,25dmg , with helmet she will take 20% of it taking 11,25 damage effectively having 85% damage reduction with her 200 health effectively having 1 333 health. Would die in 75 seconds by just standing there
Health & sanity gain = Mob's damage × 0.25 × (original damage ÷ Mob's Health)
So 75 × 0,25 × (42.5 ÷ 4000)=18,75 × 0,010625= 0,19921875 it's almost 0,2 hp per swing, in 5 seconds she will do 11 of them and heal 2,2. That's 1/3 more faster than moose.  
With dark sword: 75 × 0,25 × (68 ÷ 4000)=18,75 × 0,017= 0,31875 making it 3,5 per 5 seconds.

With heartrending ballad she gains extra 5,5 healing per 5 seconds making it 7,7 with battle spear or 9 with dark sword compared to moose's 1,5.

Helm would withstand 8,75 of such attacks. That would take 35 seconds.
She deals 53.125 damage with her spear
She would kill normal deerclops by tanking in about 33 seconds, depends attack speed is inconsistent. 

[chirsg]

Wigfrid cockroach of DST. You could compare her to moose, but what she's best at is just staying alive. At the same time, noobs will die on day 4 because they don't understand the concept of killing to eat.

She's balanced in the most interesting way. 

I don't have to look at the math to know that she's better at Woodie at being Boris the Bullet Dodger from Snatch.
She can be played carelessly even without armor.

She's got so many of moose's benefits, all the while the ability to freely eat and have no stun inbetween transformations, as she has one form. 

And remember, she can also put on a marble suit too. 

The choice between wigfrid and woodie is almost negligible. They're both good at different things. Even when it comes to utility, they can tend to be pretty similar as well.

By virtue of being hard to kill is utility in and of itself. It's more productive to not die than to double wigfrid's workload, but end up in a precarious situation that results in death, revive, backtrack and all the while, our favorite cockroach has already moved on to making boards or running out of the ruins. 

The comparison can be fun to make, but I still believe that woodie has not powercrept past her, despite his gargantuan capacity for combat. 
She has an easier time of all the major raid bosses, excluding perhaps celestial champion which in my opinion, I would give to woodie, but she's in a safe spot.

Wigfrid is in a good spot. Not terribly overpowered, but not too bad.

Her downside is rather... annoying as she can't eat powder cake and when it comes to raw damage, a spiced powdercake on a wilson level damage modifier gets them to reach her breakpoints, all the while, she has to eat a more troublesome dish to gain a boost in power...

 

[Gashzer]

Wigfrid doesn't have an AoE attack.. which is the moose's best ability.

Moose fills a combat niche that wigfrid/wolfgang/wanda cant compete with. That is the moose wrecking hordes of mobs extremely easily. You can argue that the moose is better than abigail for AoE too as you have better control and abigail will die to mobs like rooks, ink blights and cant attack mobs like hordes of nightmare creatures. Moose can charge them all down.

So for overall combat ability... what the moose loses out abit in fighting bosses, it excels well beyond every other "combat" character for dealing with hordes. 

And the moose is only a small part of woodies perks...

 

[MadMatt]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

You can argue that the moose is better than abigail for AoE too as you have better control and abigail will die to mobs like rooks, ink blights and cant attack mobs like hordes of nightmare creatures.

Abigail is absolutely superior in every regard to mobs which actually appear in swarms like spiders, splumonkeys, bees, and hounds. AoE is not nearly as useful against ink blights or rooks since they do not swarm the player or appear in large groups next to each other. Nightmare creatures only apply like this during the nightmare phase in the ruins. 

The Moose AoE is good but you are so overselling it compared to how free, effective, and easy Abigail is.

[Gashzer]

Just now, MadMatt said:

Abigail is absolutely superior in every regard to mobs which actually appear in swarms like spiders, splumonkeys, bees, and hounds. AoE is not nearly as useful against ink blights or rooks since they do not swarm the player or appear in large groups next to each other. Nightmare creatures only apply like this during the nightmare phase in the ruins. 

The Moose AoE is good but you are so overselling it compared to how free, effective, and easy Abigail is.

Abigail is slightly better for swarm mobs, the only thing making abigail competitive to moose for AoE, is the ease of access of just summoning abigail compared to woodie having to craft an idol and abigail being great for bee queen.

Ink blights do swarm the player but u just have to charge back and forth mindlessly as moose to kill all 3 blights, its so easy!

But yeah moose steps on alot of other character's toes atm... which is what makes it so strong. Why play wigfrid or wendy when woodie has it all? Great AoE and great tankiness. 

 

[MadMatt]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Abigail is slightly better for swarm mobs, the only thing making abigail competitive to moose for AoE, is the ease of access of just summoning abigail compared to woodie having to craft an idol and abigail being great for bee queen.

That's not the only reason though. Abigail lets Wendy kill huge numbers of enemies with zero risk of her getting stunlocked to death, unlike the Moose who you run a real risk of dying if you use against a too large horde. Abigail also is a stunlock immune constant hitbox unlike the Moose who can either do AoE in a very small radius every 1 and a half seconds if uninterrupted or in a narrow line with significant start and end lag.

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ink blights do swarm the player but u just have to charge back and forth mindlessly as moose to kill all 3 blights, its so easy!

So is just hitting them once and running away lol. Charging back and forth through enemies is the Moose's least effective use especially since Ink blights are incredibly easy to predict and dodge. This point also makes no sense because they aren't close enough to each other half the time to benefit from AoE.

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

But yeah moose steps on alot of other character's toes atm... which is what makes it so strong. Why play wigfrid or wendy when woodie has it all? Great AoE and great tankiness. 

But I can't use any of the equipment I get from killing end game bosses. I am limited in what I can actually do compared to a normal character who has everything at their disposal. I can't ride Beefalo, I can't burst heal, I can't manipulate sanity, I can't put mobs and bosses to sleep, I can't use great gear like the Magi... 

You're blind to the downsides of the Weremoose and it really shows. You're oversimplifying the Moose's strengths as if they were applied to Woodie directly. It's disingenuous and an uninformed perspective of Woodie's skill tree and strength. 

[Mysterious box]

52 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wigfrid doesn't have an AoE attack.. which is the moose's best ability.

Moose fills a combat niche that wigfrid/wolfgang/wanda cant compete with. That is the moose wrecking hordes of mobs extremely easily. You can argue that the moose is better than abigail for AoE too as you have better control and abigail will die to mobs like rooks, ink blights and cant attack mobs like hordes of nightmare creatures. Moose can charge them all down.

So for overall combat ability... what the moose loses out abit in fighting bosses, it excels well beyond every other "combat" character for dealing with hordes. 

And the moose is only a small part of woodies perks...

 

Wigfrid doesn't but Wolfgang does have a aoe attack. Wolfgang has much higher damage while also having high aoe damage. Wigfrid is much much more durable than the moose while also having aoe support buffs. Wanda has really high damage, attack range, and other support abilities. Maxwell has even higher damage than the moose while equally being a jack of all trades. The moose has decently high high attack and defense but not at the level of higher end combat characters and has good mob clearing but in a more risky way than other mob clearing characters.

These other characters also don't have restrictions placed on them while they fight unlike Woodie the moose is a good fighter but he's a far cry from dethroning dedicated combat characters.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

So for overall combat ability... what the moose loses out abit in fighting bosses, it excels well beyond every other "combat" character for dealing with hordes. 

Figured I'd add since most people tend to overlook this when playing Wendy because Abigail is so strong by default but are you considering Abigail using potions vs the moose because that widens the gap by quite a bit between them.

[Captain_Rage]

The weremoose is taller and has antlers.

[Gashzer]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Figured I'd add since most people tend to overlook this when playing Wendy because Abigail is so strong by default but are you considering Abigail using potions vs the moose because that widens the gap by quite a bit between them.

What are the most dangerous horde of mobs to fight? Hordes of splumonkeys and hordes of nightmare creatures from nightmare lights. Abigail is 100% better at killing splumonkeys but does absolutely nothing to nightmare creatures. The moose isnt even that much worse at killing splumonkeys, spiders and frogs, you have a small risk of gettin stunlocked but this isnt an issue with the new skill to stop a charge whenever you want plus a tiny amount of player skill.

Both wendy and woodie dont need to run from any hordes of mobs so the slight difference between how fast each kill the horde isnt that important. What is important is that abigail cant AoE damage as many different types of mobs as the moose can AoE damage. This is the same reason big bernie is better than abigail. Killing hordes of spiders is easy with AoE or no AoE, killing hordes of nightmare creatures is not and this is a massive advantage that both the moose and big bernie have over abigail.

3 hours ago, MadMatt said:

But I can't use any of the equipment I get from killing end game bosses. I am limited in what I can actually do compared to a normal character who has everything at their disposal. I can't ride Beefalo, I can't burst heal, I can't manipulate sanity, I can't put mobs and bosses to sleep, I can't use great gear like the Magi... 

You're blind to the downsides of the Weremoose and it really shows. You're oversimplifying the Moose's strengths as if they were applied to Woodie directly. It's disingenuous and an uninformed perspective of Woodie's skill tree and strength. 

 But with the weremoose you dont need end-game gear like mag/bone armour/beefalo. I posted a fight recently were i used weremoose to kill dfly. Did you know how i put dfly to sleep? Switched to woodie when dfly was spawning larve, waited until enraged then put to sleep then transformed to moose again. Rinse and repeat for an extremely easy dfly kill. 

You can simply turn back to woodie to sleep bosses/heal then re-transform again. Moose form might not be op but Woodie as a character with his many many many abilities definitely is.

So moose doesnt need buffed at all. If anything the longer lasting transformations skill and no health loss/sanity loss/no zero hunger when transforming back skill was the only buffs the moose needed but it now also has health regen, charge control and increased damage.

Moose is really strong. And woodie is op.

[Cheggf]

At best you are currently arguing that the character who spends resources to fight & do nothing else is better at fighting than the character who does much more than just fighting. 

[Lardee]

13 hours ago, MadMatt said:

Abigail is absolutely superior in every regard to mobs which actually appear in swarms like spiders, splumonkeys, bees, and hounds. AoE is not nearly as useful against ink blights or rooks since they do not swarm the player or appear in large groups next to each other. Nightmare creatures only apply like this during the nightmare phase in the ruins. 

The Moose AoE is good but you are so overselling it compared to how free, effective, and easy Abigail is.

As someone who plays both characters a lot, I can say that this is not completely true.

Abigail is without a doubt superior against mobs that can be stunlocked like normal spiders and bees, but against ones that can't like splumonkeys and frogs? The moose is absolutely better.  

Before Woodie's skill tree, the moose could literally kill an unlimited amount of these guys as long as you position your charges well. He was one of the only characters that can straight up overpower frog rain. Abigail does well against splumonkeys and frogs, but she definitely has her limit.

Agree about the Moose's smash AoE, but the charge AoE is 100% better than Abigail for many swarm mobs even before the update.