Please remove the Photosynthesis skill and bring back the Petal Perk

[Xenomorph4053]

Hello, I am someone that mains Wormwood, and have hundreds of hours on that character. I have experience in both farming at base in a group and boss rushing as Wormwood. Here's the previous post I made about the beta: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149144-my-thoughts-on-the-wormwood-skill-tree-from-a-proud-wormwood-main/

By removing the petal perk you have significantly nerfed Wormwood's new skill tree and made him far less fun to play. Getting 32 flower petals a day has an insane amount of utility for Wormwood and was his best perk. 
 

32 petals a day means:

• Infinite rot. Even just used as healing via self fertilizing, that means 64 healing a day. It also saves time fertilizing transplanted plants.
• Infinite ash. Which is used in both healing salves and growth fertilizer, something you make a lot of.
• Infinite compost. I usually never make compost bins, but now I might now. It's a free 8 healing. (Although rot also gives compost points as a fertilizer).
• Infinite manure. With just a were pig and the stacks of petals you've been accumulating, you'll have stacks of manure. 
• Infinite charcoal. With just a firepit or 2 and the infinite fuel you have, you can accumulate large amounts of charcoal from making a max level fires.
• Infinite fuel for Ice Flingos. This helps Wormwood farm transplanted plants even more.
• It made compost wraps actually viable as a healing source. I usually never bother making these as there's easier methods of healing, but now the only limiting factor is nitre.
• It made tillweed salves actually viable as a healing source. If you use LotFF to make a Till Weed farm, you'll have infinite Till Weed salves. While usually a completely useless item it now has a use as you can accumulate a lot of them with a Till Weed farm. Regenerative healing from different sources on Wormwood stacks, so this can now open up certain creative strats.
• It made garlands something you would actually craft for your teammates. Even if a bad item, I can see it now getting a use since they're practically free.
• It makes pretty parasol something I would even consider crafting. Again, this perk gives some use to so many bad niche items.
• Made beefalo taming easy. 16 petals is all you need to tame a beefalo a day if what I've seen is correct. A lot of Wormwood players go the beefalo route because of his "don't get hit" playstyle and this gives him some love.
• Wormwood could make dozens of mushroom planters early and easily. Whilst Wormwood himself doesn't benefit too much from mushroom planters, (although his Ipecac syrup could change that), they're pretty helpful in multiplayer.
• I usually use the eye mask plus shield of terror combo in my worlds and this meant infinite durability with no effort. Each rot is 7% durability

 

And now for the biggest benefit:

Before, crop combos used to be so much better than farming fertilizers to grow a specific crop. With the infinite manure and rot it meant you could actually use fertilizers to grow an individual crop. There's so many great crops that just require either manure or rot that could allow Wormwood to farm so much more hunger and healing than he can now. This, more than any of his other filler farming perks, enhances his farming capabilities. It allows for so much more self expression, creativity, and skillful play with the farming mechanics.

And what did Wormwood get to replace this amazing perk that enhances his kit in creative ways and gives use to so many niche items? The photosynthesis perk... A perk that only gives 1 healing every 20 seconds, or 3 healing every minute, but only during sunlight. So 18 healing a day in the summer, 12 healing a day in starting autumn and 6 healing a day in Winter. This is the definition of useless. This adds ZERO utility to Wormwoods kit. This adds a PATHETIC amount of healing. This is AWFUL. If you simply used the 32 rot from the 32 flowers you get a day, you get 64 healing a day.

If the Petal Production perk was too weak, it isn't. If it was too strong, simply lower the petals produced. This perk was the most fun part of his skill tree in my playtime with the beta and was the part I was the most excited for to come to the live game. Wormwood does not need this nerf, he is already a weak character. Wormwood does not need this simplification of his toolkit. Even if you heavily buff his health regen from Photosynthesis you will only make things worse. As giving him a brain dead form of healing will only make his playstyle worse and less engaging to play. 

From a passionate Wormwood main, please revert this change.

(I will say now that the ipecac syrup gives 16 manure it sllightly helps replace the petal perk, but it is NO where near as helpful and as fun as the Petal Production perk.)

 

[Creatorofswamps]

He doesn't need to delete anything. Just let him shave. He will roll back the flowering a little and get -5 xp, but you will pluck the cherished petals and will not lose photosynthesis

[Lossy15]

The photosynthesis is good! I have a better answer:

Remove this and replace it with the petal production ^^.

[IAmAFurrz]

Klei making the worst changes that everyone wants to have fun with as theu proceed to leave wolfgang an unchanged braindead badly-desiged character is just par gor the course

[GenomeSquirrel]

I prefer the petals myself

[chirsg]

I don't even play wormwood but I appreciate the passion. I hope klei listens to a wormwood main.

Man, remember just around 5 hours ago, we were so happy?

Time is cruel.

[IAmAFurrz]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I don't even play wormwood but I appreciate the passion. I hope klei listens to a wormwood main.

Man, remember just around 5 hours ago, we were so happy?

Time is cruel.

Klei saw us having fun with sub optimal characters

[Dextops]

11 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

Klei making the worst changes that everyone wants to have fun with as theu proceed to leave wolfgang an unchanged braindead badly-desiged character is just par gor the course

There’s really nothing wrong with him balance wise, he’s just boring especially with his rework which removed his massive downside and made his gameplay waiting. 

[Xenomorph4053]

47 minutes ago, Lossy15 said:

The photosynthesis is good! I have a better answer:

Remove this and replace it with the petal production ^^.

The flytrap skill can still be reworked into something good though. As a farmer, you are incentivized to kill Lord of the Fruit Flies as soon as possible, as his friendly fruit fly automates tending. The way his spawning works is that he spawns at the earliest on day 35, with this number going down by 0.5 for every crop spoiled. Only one LotFF, can be in a world at once.

 

So a simple fix to this skill would be to allow Wormwood to bypass the day 35 limit. Once killed, you can then spawn LotFF again in a bait farm somewhere far away, where he will never terrorize you again. 

 

Right now the skill is useless because he's a boss you only want to fight once before leaving him somewhere, but it could be very useful if it allowed you to fight him earlier.

[Dextops]

11 minutes ago, Xenomorph4053 said:

The flytrap skill can still be reworked into something good though. As a farmer, you are incentivized to kill Lord of the Fruit Flies as soon as possible, as his friendly fruit fly automates tending. The way his spawning works is that he spawns at the earliest on day 35, with this number going down by 0.5 for every crop spoiled. Only one LotFF, can be in a world at once.

 

So a simple fix to this skill would be to allow Wormwood to bypass the day 35 limit. Once killed, you can then spawn LotFF again in a bait farm somewhere far away, where he will never terrorize you again. 

 

Right now the skill is useless because he's a boss you only want to fight once before leaving him somewhere, but it could be very useful if it allowed you to fight him earlier.

i think a problem is wormwood doesn't really benefit from this. like he has farming perks but he doesn't really benefit from it so i'd like having perks that branch out more from that and give him more benefit 

[OldManDan]

Maybe take away one of the growth spurt traits and replace it with petal production?

Removes an potentially unnecessary perk an replaces it with a different one in the same blooming tree, I think it's a good compromise 

[HowlVoid]

23 minutes ago, Xenomorph4053 said:

 

Photosynthesis is a lot more useful than fly trap. It doesn't make sense to keep this skill as wormwood doesn't benefit from killing lord of the smelly. So it shouldn't be a priority to save it.

We should try to remove obviously useless skills first. If you want more farming perks also try and rework some of the more bad ones first. Seed sleuth, butterfly friend, and two berry bush skills that do the same thing come to mind.

Photosynthesis still has potential to be better. Why step on our own toes when you can step on a roach instead.

[Xenomorph4053]

31 minutes ago, Dextops said:

i think a problem is wormwood doesn't really benefit from this. like he has farming perks but he doesn't really benefit from it so i'd like having perks that branch out more from that and give him more benefit 

I agree Wormwood doesn't benefit from farming. Wormwood has next to no real incentives to do proper crop farming solo, (even farming Dragonfruit for Saladmanders doesn't seem worth it). But, if you are farming as Wormwood, you're most likely playing in a large group or public server. In a group environment, most Wormwood's effectively stay chained to base until Spring, (day 35). The combo of LotFF and constant rain from Spring means your crop combos are automated, which allows the Wormwood player to branch out and actually do more useful things. By letting him kill LotFF early, it allows him to vastly improve the efficiency of his early game when farming in a group setting. 

[HowlVoid]

Just now, Xenomorph4053 said:

I agree Wormwood doesn't benefit from farming. Wormwood has next to no real incentives to do proper crop farming solo, (even farming Dragonfruit for Saladmanders doesn't seem worth it). But, if you are farming as Wormwood, you're most likely playing in a large group or public server. In a group environment, most Wormwood's effectively stay chained to base until Spring, (day 35). The combo of LotFF and constant rain from Spring means your crop combos are automated, which allows the Wormwood player to branch out and actually do more useful things. By letting him kill LotFF early, it allows him to vastly improve the efficiency of his early game when farming in a group setting. 

This can be combined with butterfly friend. It's honestly a low value skill and butterfly friend is too. Call it bug caller or something idk.