Skill trees aren't inherently bad, but some people wish they encorperated downsides and balance.

[Mysterious box]

10 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No, you only need 1 idol, maybe 2.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 3:41 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

It is 2 grass and 3 monster meat to pretty much have a thulicite suit, above darksword level damage, health regen, Moose charge with a few downsides. I don't think 4 skill points, 2 grass and 3 monster meat is really working for it. Not interacting with inventory is very notable but often you would not need to. I think it is fine even though it is op.

That's for a very experienced player but that's not a realistic representation of how the moose works for the average player not being able to heal on demand is a serious downside just look at Wanda and it's compounded by the post transformation vulnerability l.

[Dunte]

I think your comment is one of the most important posts here.

Characters should have more downsides like in the old times. This makes game more challenging and fun. 
WX affected by water, Wigfrid who can only eat meat, Wormwood, who can't heal so easily, Maxwell who has low HP, Walter with sanity based on health. This is fun, because people need to learn how to play around these weeknesses.

[MondayNight]

4 hours ago, Dunte said:

WX affected by water, Wigfrid who can only eat meat, Wormwood, who can't heal so easily, Maxwell who has low HP, Walter with sanity based on health. This is fun, because people need to learn how to play around these weeknesses.

WX weakness - have all time am Eyebrella in your inventory; Wigfrid - do plenty hunts; kill everything in sight, eat raw meat just to spite those people going insane; Wormwood - go overboard: have all time 1 stack of Compost Wrap & 1 stack of Healing Salves; Maxwell - use minions and have "heavy duty" head and body-slot armors; Walter - avoid direct combat and pubs with lags; alternatively be insane all time while tanking everything "1ik3 Pr0" with "heavy duty" head&torso armors. Cons solved. Now play like any other character - even better, play like Wilson with bons.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

WX weakness - have all time am Eyebrella in your inventory; Wigfrid - do plenty hunts; kill everything in sight, eat raw meat just to spite those people going insane; Wormwood - go overboard: have all time 1 stack of Compost Wrap & 1 stack of Healing Salves; Maxwell - use minions and have "heavy duty" head and body-slot armors; Walter - avoid direct combat and pubs with lags; alternatively be insane all time while tanking everything "1ik3 Pr0" with "heavy duty" head&torso armors. Cons solved. Now play like any other character - even better, play like Wilson with bons.

I too find Warly to be really easy because i magically have infinite food. They still make you play differently around their weaknesses, except Maxwell, Wickerbottom, Winona and woodie. Their downside do nothing, one of them not having any downsides. Downsides are the reasons why each character uses these different methods, because other methods don't work as well anymore. If Walter had no downsides, i would just play him like default Wilson, besides having a few perks to use.

[Dunte]

15 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I too find Warly to be really easy because i magically have infinite food. They still make you play differently around their weaknesses, except Maxwell, Wickerbottom, Winona and woodie. Their downside do nothing, one of them not having any downsides. Downsides are the reasons why each character uses these different methods, because other methods don't work as well anymore. If Walter had no downsides, i would just play him like default Wilson, besides having a few perks to use.

True.
I like Woodie's buffs, but for real. He has no downsides now. He literally can turn off his main downsides such as being hungry after curse or switching while there's a full moon.
Wolfgang's the same. He is like Wilson but stronger. Eats slightly a little bit more food and loses a little bit of sanity more but you gain faaar more.
 

Winona actually has a fair hunger downside, but unfortunately she's a boring character.
Maxwell with his cage and minions is far OP, so yeah. He's low health doesn't matter in a long run.


 

[Jakepeng99]

7 minutes ago, Dunte said:

True.
I like Woodie's buffs, but for real. He has no downsides now. He literally can turn off his main downsides such as being hungry after curse or switching while there's a full moon.
Wolfgang's the same. He is like Wilson but stronger. Eats slightly a little bit more food and loses a little bit of sanity more but you gain faaar more.
 

Winona actually has a fair hunger downside, but unfortunately she's a boring character.
Maxwell with his cage and minions is far OP, so yeah. He's low health doesn't matter in a long run.


 

They could increase Maxwell hp to 100, but make him take 25% more damage.

[Dr.Webber]

Here are my ideas for Webber 

 

[kroban]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:23 AM, chirsg said:

This says it all. If you see anyone say they solo dragonfly using moose, it typically goes "Eat 5 moose idols in one single fight."
That's 15 monster meat. 2 of those monster meats can be used to make 1 pierogi and 10 grass can be used to make 3 football helms and if you play it right, you can stand to only get struck 3-5 times in the fight by dragonfly. 

Twins as base woodie is a lot more managable too. Instead of damage reduction, you trade it in for the potential to do a no hitter.

 

Bruv I dont know where you get your maths but 15 monster meat and 10 grass is extremely cheap compared to the average character having to spend a flute, 2 armor sets, way more healing than what Woodie would require, and weapon. Like yeah sure, if you are a disgusting Wolfgang player you can solo DF with like a hambat and a football helm, buts that's far from the being the average and we are talking of a ridiculous strong character that is basically a walking 2x dmg with no debuffs. Also if you do it right you can kill Dragonfly with 1-2 idols. I have tested it myself. And Moose standing 3-5 hits? He receives like 8 damage per DF basic attack, he can stand way more with his healing perk and receiving 95% less dmg than "3 hits" lmao.

Moose is extremelly good now, the movement speed is normal and could use an improvement, but you are forgetting he now has the cancellable charge attack that makes him move at the same speed as a player with a walking cane. He can also gain speed from path tiles.

You can solo Twins without taking a hit, you can solo a lot of bosses with dodging or be kind of a tank that also does really good dmg against "biggies" like CC. I have played this updated Woodie a good chunk of time now, and as far as Ive seen, you can do:

- With barely any issue and using 1 idol: Eye, Klaus, Ancient Guardian and Werepig. Also minibosses.

- Requiring a couple of idols and maybe some healing if you are not good at dodging: DF, BQ and Twins.

All this compared to other characters wasting lots of resources to fight them, where Woodie only needs some grass and 2 minutes of killing spiders. I don't get the hate on "having to use more than 1 idol" for some fights when most times you can do it safely and its part of the fun in playing a changing forms character, taking advantage of it.

Also this is something I've tested it myself, you can even use Moose for fighting CC. Haven't tried to solo it yet, and I will try it, but when it comes to multiplayer, I've done it 6 times already, 3 times with 1 friend, the other 3 times with other 2 friends. And im far from being a "pro" but in those fights I did the mayority of the damage. Yes, you have to de-transform a couple times if you are not good at dodging, but the other characters have to stay away too during some CC's attacks so that's basically the same, only that Woodie takes advantage of those times for recovering health/ resetting timer. And hell, you can even tank attacks and only lose a chunk of HP where other characters would 100% die, like CC's spin attack in P2 or taking 3 entire lasers at once in P3.

CC doesn't despawn and takes A LOT of time to heal, so, from what I've seen, you could in theory solo CC with like max 7 idols (prob 2 if you are really good), some quick healing like potatos or dragonpies, and like 2 Jellys if you really want to be safe about it. That's it. You tell me how that's more expensive than the average player having to farm for WAY more resources(literally thulecite gear if you don't want to risk it), half a stack (if not more) of heals, and even sanity food.

[Jakepeng99]

12 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Here are my ideas for Webber 

 

This is just a random plug not related to the topic, you can put it in your bio instead of posting it in random forums.

[Mike23Ua]

After playing around with maxing out both Wilson and Wolfgang’s skill trees (Xbox player here so it takes FOREVER without skip commands) and having 3 points invested into Woodies-

I don’t agree with the OP that Skill Trees (of all things..) should come with Downsides.

These are meant to give your characters more power, branch them out and make them more fun and less of a hassle to play as.

Now please re-read the above Carefully because what I’m about to say next will contradict the hell out of it, but you will hopefully understand…

Hassle free easy to pick up, learn, play and enjoy characters will make them far more appealing to a larger group of players.. that is Undeniable (just look at how much WW has changed from challenging hard to heal with character with limited combat options, to now having decent combat options and a myriad of gimmicky ways to ignore his harder to heal with Downside..)

Its fair to say that in a way.. Wormwood undertook a drastic facelift from how he originally played and became well uhh.. something else…

But that’s the point I’m getting to- Hassle Free, Easy to Play.

Skill Trees shouldn’t change this…

However- for people clamoring for some actual harsh downsides that make playing a character have unique gimmicks to playing as them and forcing the player to play the game in a different way this should still be an OPTION

But maybe that should be offered up under an actual harder difficulty mode, or a setting that enables/disables character downsides, so that every character in the server has a harsh downside- Or NO ONE does.

This shouldn’t be limited to what “skills” you selected in you perk tree which is why I don’t agree with the OP and their Suggestion.

However as a Wendy Main I can think of a creative Harsher Downside for Wendy in an actual mode with Harsher Downsides enabled- 

Losing Abigail the first time broke Wendy heart, so losing her any additional times breaks her heart a little more (Wendy loses Health Core each time Abby Dies or gets Dismissed)

In Addition: When dismissing Abigail Wendy goes through an actual visible animation of ripping the flower apart, so she will need to craft a new one each time she wants to summon Abigail again. And to top that off the original DS’s cooldown period is reinstated under this mode (having to wait several days for the flower to bloom out again before Abby can be summoned)

As you can see with the above example: I just made Wendy fun to play for beginners as she is right now…

And I also gave people clamoring for something a little more difficult the “Harsher Downsides” Game Mode…

And having BAD SKILLS will just make the characters bad to play as and limit people’s enjoyment over the character roster..

This isn’t single player don’t starve anymore…

Kleis been intentionally phasing out these harsh downsides for a REASON, but that doesn’t mean they can’t do something like my above example of making a mode where characters have a harsher downside, should gamers want that.

[Dr.Webber]

10 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

This is just a random plug not related to the topic, you can put it in your bio instead of posting it in random forums.

How do I put things in my bio

[Ulisesvolador]

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

How do I put things in my bio

Probably they meant in your signature.

[Picklesaurus]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:17 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

No, you only need 1 idol, maybe 2.

Can you record it to me and show me how it is done? I'm having a hard time not using multiple Idols against Dragonfly,  I would like to know the strat people use to kill it with one idol. I usually prefer going Human form and saving idols for other fights.

[Wonz]

On 7/11/2023 at 12:12 AM, Scrimbles said:

We can have balance, allowing both sides to get what they want. But people like me feel like that balance has been lost, and is no longer being considered.

We have wolfgang since forever and to think klei added someone like wanda. We had no balance to begin with.

 

[Jakepeng99]

26 minutes ago, Wonz said:

We have wolfgang since forever and to think klei added someone like wanda. We had no balance to begin with.

 

Don't starve together, the puffin and balance update. 

[Dr.Webber]

5 hours ago, Ulisesvolador said:

Probably they meant in your signature.

Wait you can  have signatures on here 

[Wonz]

On 7/11/2023 at 11:19 AM, ALCRD said:

Wilson's torch range perk: Torches are a lot brighter - downside : Sets your character ablaze if held for too long xD

spending points on this goofy perk is already downside

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Wonz said:

spending points on this goofy perk is already downside

Actually.. I disagree, and Wilson’s torches completely replace my need to use a lantern the only thing I wish is that when “Thrown” they could be refilled.. with twigs, grass or charcoal.

This would “Fix” the entire Torch Skill Tree for Me.

[Wonz]

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually.. I disagree, and Wilson’s torches completely replace my need to use a lantern the only thing I wish is that when “Thrown” they could be refilled.. with twigs, grass or charcoal.

This would “Fix” the entire Torch Skill Tree for Me.

I make chest full o lanterns to exchange with mine once it's empty so 10 lanterns.

Lantern should last you 4 days. So once every 40 days I go to caves to get a stack of bulbs.
The light is large, can be dropped on the ground, long term i save tons of grass and twigs.
I don't like going to caves neither but once 40+ days is no biggie even for me.

If wilson is so smort why he can't upgrade lantern in some goofy way and share upgraded lantern with other players. 
All those transmutation skills were supposed to help team but can't recall any time I was happy to see him or see anyone ask him to transmute things.

[Jakepeng99]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:58 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Actually.. I disagree, and Wilson’s torches completely replace my need to use a lantern the only thing I wish is that when “Thrown” they could be refilled.. with twigs, grass or charcoal.

This would “Fix” the entire Torch Skill Tree for Me.

They should make it work on all light sources. It just working on one early game item is not a design i like.

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They should make it work on all light sources. It just working on one early game item is not a design i like.

It would be for a Lore related reason why it’s limited to just torches, Wilson being a gentleman scientist could create a potent chemical powder that can be thrown onto an open fire source to cause the flames to burn brighter, longer or Re-Ignite.

This obviously Wouldn’t work with Lanterns and Miners Hats because those are electric, not open fire.

That said.. it would be interesting if Wilson’s torch skill tree could also effect all types of “Open Flame” sources, such as throwing the powder into a Campfire or Endothermic Fire, or even on Willows Lighter.

Im also highly Disappointed that after investing 7 Skill points into his Torch Skill Tree that he doesn’t get something BADASS like the Torch Charlie Uses that consumes Enlightened Creatures that get close to it:

This is Me calling out Klei to give Justice to Wilson.. 

If I'm going to invest SEVEN points into just torches… they need to do stuff like This.

[Papa Scorch]

I just think they shouldn’t save per world. If you start a new world then the skill trees would be wiped for every character. Swapping would pause the characters skill trees,  but only in that world’s 

[lenship2]

10 hours ago, Papa Scorch said:

I just think they shouldn’t save per world. If you start a new world then the skill trees would be wiped for every character. Swapping would pause the characters skill trees,  but only in that world’s 

that defeats the one of the purposes of the skill trees though (giving new players a sense of artificial progression that isn't lost between worlds)

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Papa Scorch said:

I just think they shouldn’t save per world. If you start a new world then the skill trees would be wiped for every character. Swapping would pause the characters skill trees,  but only in that world’s 

I disagree, i hope Klei doesn't do this. I would rather them give downsides for balance instead if they were to do this.

 

Downsides can be fun, and are pretty fun. (Woodie having no downsides kinda breaks the appeal of Wilson)

 

I like Wormwood's downsides the most. It works well with his kit.