Wigfrid skill tree

[Capybara007]

Everyone is doing it so im adding her to the skill tree train

Im gonna mention some problems w her currently that klei should try to fix with a skill tree or any other method they plan ahead

1. Inspiration on enemies is too low

Spoiler

Before getting into what everyone wants to hear like battlesongs, there are many problems with the inspiration mechanic, the first problem being that its only good for bosses as not only they are a fight that has to last a while but also because the amount of insp. you get per attack on normal enemies is extremely low, which makes it so battlesongs that should be useful on them like rude interlude almost impossible to use

The only time i see wigfrids using battlesongs on normal enemies is against a hidden snurtle with ballad and cadenza for free sanity and health

Solution: increase insp. gained per hit on normal enemies, decrease insp. on bosses if necesary

2. Battlesong casting animation is too long

Spoiler

Most notable with instant effect battlesongs like interlude or siloquy (whatever its called)

This problem becomes evident, again, with normal enemies instead of bosses since at least bosses give you windows to cast them

It feels like klei only tested battlesongs on giants

Solution: anim cancel battlesongs or allow wigfrid to move while casting, which will require extra work

3. Inspiration is lost too quick

Spoiler

I get it when im cheesing dfly with walls, but i cannot possibly keep up the third battlesong socket in fights like tosdstool when im chopping the trees or cc phase 3

Solution: Insp. should start decreasing after 30 seconds or more

4. Bel canto of Courage is not fun

Spoiler

I dont care that i can use to kind of reduce sanity reduction against deerclops and fuelweaver, it is not fun, its so momentary and even when its meant to be useful i just dont feel like i am having a notable advantage

Solution: We dont need another sanity bsong, just merge some of its effect on cadenza or remove it entirely

5. Weaponized warble is also not fun

Spoiler

I dont really care for 25 more uses, its just a niche, i get that niches can be good but that doesnt mean they are fun

Solution: Maybe change it so it increases attack speed by a little? would sinergize perfectly with wigfrid since she gets buffs on hit

6. Startling soloquy and rude interlude, same story

Spoiler

They suck

Solution: Increase time that mobs affected by soloquy are scared, they did not have any problem to do this with maxwel

As for interlude, give wigfrid some defense for every mob affected by it, for example, if it aggros 5 hounds, Increase her defense by 25% (with a cap obvs so she cant have 100% prot) this way its actually useful on solo

7. Rework or remove fireproof falsetto entirely

Spoiler

For those that dont know, falsetto is a bsong that when active gives 33% fire resistance

EVEN if it was 100% resis it would still suck as there are like 3 enemies in the entire game that deal fire damage

Solution: Rework its purpose entirely, my idea was that if its made with a spitterfish, it should decrease your wetness by 2 points when hitting an enemy

8. New bsongs

Spoiler

Wolfgang got new dumbells, i think she could have 1 or 2 new bsongs aswell

My ideas were: one battlesong made with phlegm, which will slow down the mob wigfrid hit for 4 seconds

And a bsongs that gives some speed (like 15%) after doing an attack for some seconds aswell

9. New items

Spoiler

Again, wolfgang got new items that despite having nothing to do with his kit, are fun to use, like training whistle

My only idea: A flare that when set, gives inspiration to wigfrid

Tell me what you think

[flamboyant wolf]

Wish they'd add her some battle skills to spice up the fights, something similar to forge, or at least some new weapon crafts.

Songs are nice, but I hope she gets something that would make fights feel more dynamic and fun. 

[Capybara007]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:14 PM, skile said:

Wish they'd add her some battle skills to spice up the fights, something similar to forge, or at least some new weapon crafts.

Songs are nice, but I hope she gets something that would make fights feel more dynamic and fun. 

that would be cool and make sense, allow her to do diverse special attacks with weapons

for example, tier 1 of that skill allows her to spin her spear like she does in forge

tier 2 allows her to (with some weapons) jump and smash the ground like with the hammers in forge 

[Cruvimaster]

Wigfrid fell far short of Wolfgang after the reworks.

He is proficient at chopping wood, breaking stone, wears marble armor without penalty, etc.

The exclusive items that Wigfrid makes don't even have value anymore.

What's her helmet worth next to everything we already have? And the spear?

And look, Wigfrid has a real penalty in the game (food restriction), but Wolfgang doesn't (sanity???).

The skill tree maybe a worthy return for the character.

[Oyrx]

a shield for the body slot would be cool

[chirsg]

I think she should be able to throw her spear. That would be really fun. 

I'd also be happy with some norse mythology in her kit too.
Give her a cool and groovy mount that's a chariot led by two volt goats, like Thor.

Because she's a support character now, my mind goes to jester from darkest dungeon 1.

Could just rip Finale right off and let her have a final hit that does 500-1000 damage cast from full inspiration and it gives her Wes level debuffs.
The way I call it, it's actually really weak. 1000 damage is a little meaningless if it means you're doing it once per fight functionally.

[Neu7ral]

-Wigfrid's Inspiration works better in bosses, raid bosses and hordes of enemies, the inteded way, you don't go around and punch a spider to get full inspiration, however I do agree to an extent with being able to work around with regular enemies and I also agree inspiration fades away rather quickly.

-Being not fun (You can say the same to sanity/hp restoration) doesn't take away the utility, Weaponized Warble is a good as it is, boring but practical, could use a buff? yes.

-Bell Canto of Courage needs a rework, I think it should merge with Clear Minded Cadenza, my suggestion is boost attack periods of NPC followers and make them resist fear.

-I agree with the ideas of the Soliloquy and Interlude.

-Fireproof Falsetto needs a buff, my suggestion is increase fire damage delay, keep the burning resistance, and make fires in the radious of Wigfrid to not spread over or highly increase the resistance of smolder.

Really keen into seeing Wigfrid getting either upgrades for her helmet and/or battle spear and getting more battle songs, related with the first point I'd like an Insight perk that gives Wigfrid a surge of inspiration if she hasn't entered in battle for a certaing amount of time (Enough to fill 1 insp)

[Capybara007]

31 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Because she's a support character now, my mind goes to jester from darkest dungeon 1.

shes soldier from tf2

[DinsdaleP]

funnily enough, pretty much everything you mentioned has been tweaked/fixed by the Wigfrid: Re-Refresh! mod, turning Wigfrid into the perfect utility fighter... sometimes a bit too well, since Fireproof Falsetto turned into something utterly terrifying and somewhat OP (very small AoE though), while the other songs were reworked into something that is actually fun, not just "hold F". 

[slendyproject]

I just want her to get the melee dash attack from the forge with battle spear. The forge abilities were really fun to use and I think this would actually fit well into her skill tree.

[Keigo]

I hope they add some sort of interaction with beefalo, maybe fighting alongside your beefalo at 30/50% damage or a charge atack kinda like moose while riding it.

[GelatinousCube]

16 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

 

They suck

Solution: Increase time that mobs affected by soloquy are scared, they did not have any problem to do this with maxwel

As for interlude, give wigfrid some defense for every mob affected by it, for example, if it aggros 5 hounds, Increase her defense by 25% (with a cap obvs so she cant have 100% prot) this way its actually useful on solo

I love you hahahaha 

I got so sick of people defending these when the refresh came out. They are straight up hot garbage. Honestly I'd just remove them entirely but at the least they should get huge buffs. 

16 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

7. Rework or remove fireproof falsetto entirely

Just remove it, it is one of the most useless items in the entire game. 

16 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

4. Bel canto of Courage is not fun

Yep. Like you suggested it should be merged with clear minded Cadenza which is actually super strong with enlightened crown. 

I'm currently on a holiday trip but will certainly post some thoughts as a Wigfrid main when I get more time. 

[NNOUS]

I don't like the skill tree just only straight up longer buff timer thing, it's makes the game easier but well. That the trend It seems.

 

Ideas that give Wigfrid more real combat skills seems more interesting: able to throw spears or give her exclusive craft like bow (non mob targetable like irl) , give her parry ability, tho it seems to be hard to implement cuz a new ability skill button is required. All those sound much interesting that prolonged the game, instead of just straight buffs that render the game boring soon after.

[Capybara007]

11 hours ago, NNOUS said:

instead of just straight buffs that render the game boring soon after.

well the other characters also got straight buffs

smalls interactions can change some of your playstyle too, maybe wolfgang gping from a 5% instant boulder break to a 10% isnt the best example, but lowering inspiration decrease timer basically means in some ocassions the will be able to hold to the 3rd bsong socket which if they eventually rework them it will be very welcomed

[NNOUS]

4 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

well the other characters also got straight buffs

well its better not having it for the first place isnt it? wilson's skill tree is well designed cuz transmute is very unique, and beard/torch buff is minor yet very interesting.

dev had nailed it to let him have access to make the game play cheaper but still challenging. while buff char that is already pretty good seems to be a lost point to me.

[abrocator]

Here’s a skill:

• Remove 25% innate damage reduction but gain a parry ability. Each successful parry deflects all damage, takes away a little bit of your weapon’s durability—no durability is lost if weaponized marble is active—, gains a lot of inspiration, staggers the attacker, and you get invincibility from attacks for a fraction of a second (in case you are being attacked by five mobs at almost the same time)
• Parry does not work against a knockback attack like that of Nightmare Werepig
• Could synergize with Rude Interlude

This would only work if you could have a hotkey. It would suck if you would need a constant right-click-to-dash-soul-hop like that of Wheeler/Wortox.

[NNOUS]

6 minutes ago, abrocator said:

Here’s a skill:

• Remove 25% innate damage reduction but gain a parry ability. Each successful parry deflects all damage, takes away a little bit of your weapon’s durability—no durability is lost if weaponized marble is active—, gains a lot of inspiration, staggers the attacker, and you get invincibility from attacks for a fraction of a second (in case you are being attacked by five mobs at almost the same time)
• Parry does not work against a knockback attack like that of Nightmare Werepig
• Could synergize with Rude Interlude

This would only work if you could have a hotkey. It would suck if you would need a constant right-click-to-dash-soul-hop like that of Wheeler/Wortox.

its a excellent idea. now thinking thought it this mechanic might be kinda busted cuz its may not be easy to land duo to latency issue similar to when u trying to grab the boomerang 

[MrMNWorm]

Could definitely see some of these ideas for Wigfrid.

A two branch section for Songs, where one side increases the effects of songs and the other side increases the duration/slows the loss of Inspiration.

Then a 3 branch system for new fighting skills that can be mastered. One branch for a new Spear Throwing ability (ranged attacks), Spear Spinning ability (a buzzsaw attack), and Shield Blocking (which the Shield would be her new crafting item). Blocking seems feasible, but I’m not sure about Parrying as that might require a lot of animation work to be done… because you’d have to make successful parry animations for every boss and mob… plus all the programming required.

And now that @chirsg has put the thought into my head… I really want to see a Volt Goat Charioteer ability branch. It’s got two branches. One side helps Wigfrid ride better (increases steering control) and attack better with her Spear Throwing (increased damage). Then the Goats would have a branch where they become faster, get a ramming/charge attack, and then the final skill slot adds a lightning effect to their ram attack but it only lasts a short while and has a cool down.

Volt Goat Charioteer might be a long shot for being implemented… but we can dream can’t we.

[CCCR33]

There are many good ideas here

Although some of them are not easy to implement

But Wigfrid does need to change

Improve the system of inspiration, war songs, and spears

Add more interesting or challenging skills

I hope Wigfrid's skill tree won't be so perfunctory

Let Wigfrid become a real Valkyrie

[chirsg]

Personally I find the beefalo a little uggo.
It really would be a hell of a stretch, if it could be balanced, I would love goats on a chariot. 

If it's possible, Mjolnir craft would be much appreciated... As a lunar alignment craft.

[Creatorofswamps]

27 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Personally I find the beefalo a little uggo.
It really would be a hell of a stretch, if it could be balanced, I would love goats on a chariot. 

If it's possible, Mjolnir craft would be much appreciated... As a lunar alignment craft.

Since Wormwood has salamander followers, Wigfried can get goat followers.

[Danila6300]

I think we still need to do something with planar damage to her.