Some small changes(buffs) to these 4 would be apreciate.

[NekoSoulx]

Well to be fair i dont really care if these 4 get a buff in the future but i agree to some extent that these 4 character can use more love from klei.

Im talking about the 4 character that a lot of people on this forum think they need some kind of buff. Of course i mean Walter, Winona, Woodie and Willow. Now im just going to express some small improvements, not big reworks or something like that, and i wanna know what you all in the forum think.

Walter:

Now this is an easy one at least at my eyes, i think he only needs to take less sanity loss from any hit, right now the sanity lose is twice the health lose which is too much in my opinion, the problem with walter is that he does too little damage and receive too much in exchange for a cheap ranged combat so maybe about 15 sanity lost each hit could be better, or perhaps if he lost half the sanity equivalent to the damage taken, idk but i do believe it needs to be lowered.

Another thing he needs is the ability to tame beefalos easier than all the others characters, after all he has some afinity with the wild life like we can see in his video. I mean woby is ok during early game but after that he gets outclassed by the ornery or the rider beef, so i think an ability to make the domestication process easier to walter is not only really good for that character but actually it makes sense too.

Thats it, i think these changes would be good enough to make the character not sucks that hard like he does right now sorry walters mains :p.

Willow:

The thing about willow is that she has a lot of grief potential but lets be honest for a moment what character does not?, so that being clear let me explain my buffs. Let Willow use a sewing kit to repair bernie full health during his biggest form, right now you can only heal bearnie using healing salves and honey poultices but thats feels so wrong to do so almost nobody does it and bernie cant regen health by itself like abi do, so it would be really great to have the power to make bernie full health while he is fighting monsters by using a sewing kit, that way the tanky bearnie that can get a lot of aggro can actually tank XD. i swear that this tiny change would make willow a lot better to use. Oh and the moment bearnie is low health willow should be able to detect that and say something to let us know bernie is about to die, like "my poor bernie" or something like that so we can use the sewing kit in a good moment.

The second thing would be making willow to have the power to create a flame explosion every time any mob hit her while she is insane enough to summon big bearnie and with half health. Of course im not talking about a really big explosion. Im thinking about something like the bramble husk of wormwood but better. A tiny AoE explosion that cant burn items and only happens every time willow is mele damaged by any mob at low health and sanity, it has the next effects: it deals 35 damage to every mob around willow, it has a slight chance to burn the attackers, it makes any shadows near the range of attacks to lose aggro. As you can see this is not only really cool and good but actually makes sense according to willow's trailer.

And finally the last thing i would add is the ability to absorb flames (yeah just like wickerbottom book) losing some sanity in the process and heating willow a little. And klei dont really need to make any new animation for this at all, they can use the lazy deserter usage animation.

Woodie:

Well this is the hard one at least for me. I used to love woodie a lot back in the day of the original RoG, because the werebeaver is so strong in that game, i even read in the wiki that hoedown(werebeaver song) is some kind of version of super mario invencible star power up, which makes sense, werebeaver was so strong, i even killed my first boss ever using it . So its really hard for me to make a good, not broken suggestion but im gonna try anyway.

Weremoose: Let this dude to have a natural health regen please, if you have played the hamlet dlc you should know that wilba is some kind of better version of woodie(she can even avoid being turn into her wereform lmao), and she has health regen so idk why the weremoose form cant have even a worst version of this, maybe making it a good health regen only during full moon. And would it be so bad to make the weremoose have 95% armor like a marble armor? i dont think so. The damage he dealts is fine but one last thing, the weremoose should be inmune to insanity auras like deerclops or so cause come on in woodie's video the weremoose looks so confident and strong and we lost all the hunger a lot of sanity anyway while using any were form so at leats make this form good to fight against some bosses, right now everybody knows is better to just fight as woodie almost any fight so i dont see any good reason outside of really early game to use this form.

Weregoose: He should have the ability to deaggro mobs during this form, you see that way you can use this form to escape any mob and at the same time to make them quickly lost interest in you. And second he should have the ability to fly in standar speed over the void in the caves, i think with this the weregoose would be so great to explore not only the ocean but the caves as well and even to find the heart of the ruins pretty early, maybe this is too much? Idk thats why im here at the forum, please give me your opinions on this.

Werebeaver: Just 2 things, please make the werebeaver totally waterproofe, come on is a giant beaver at least give us a little of the taste of the old school(he used to be inmune to all effects in RoG). And make him be able to eat wood again pretty please klei, maybe dont use the space buttom to eat it just the right click of the mouse that away we avoid eating wood by accident. Right now each time we turn into any form woodie lose 20 health points, i just want to stay as a beaver as much as i want without that much penalty, making werebeaver to recover 25% of the wereness per piece of wood would be so lovely. And only wood btw, just ban it to eat any other item but solid wood.

Finally i have to say that i dont understand why woodie now turns while eating monster meat, it's just a copy paste of wilba with no offense, it would be good if instead of meat woodie now can get a new item from trees like sap so he could make all the kitschy idols with differents kinds of saps from trees, maybe even including maple syrup, that would be lovely, you know the lumberjack getting all he needs from trees not from monsters i mean woodie is a lumberjack not a fighter. I hope he gets something this year, at least some tiny improvements.

Winona:

Now my girl is another hard one since i do believe she is fine as she is but at the same time people do not so maybe im a little biased, so im gonna try to do my best here.

First i think we all winona mains can agree that the spotlights don't have much uses so i think maybe making the spotlight radius a lot bigger woudnt be bad, and making it being able to be static in a spot like the crockpots place or the chest zone wouldnt be that op.

Making winona being the only character able to turn off and on the generator using the crafting animation on the gen would be appreciated. You know to avoid wasting too much fuel and to avoid having in the inventory all the nitre and gems all the time.

Finally i think she should be able to craft some items half the cost or maybe with less materials than other characters, i dont want this to be such a broken thing like i did in my last post about winona so i think only the refinary tab should have this discount. like come on, its not too strong to make boards with 2 or 3 logs instead of 4, that combined with the extra speed of winona could be so great to make mega bases or big constructions, she is the handywoman after all.

Well thats all, i hope you can give your honest opinions about this, i dont really like the idea to make another character reworks so i just gave some ideas to improve the characters without making new animation, new items(the sap thing doesnt count :P) or any big thing, just some little improvements here and there.

 

[Theukon-dos]

Walter's downside I'd say is fine. Though there is something to be said about the character who's immune to monster sanity auras wanting to stay out of them at all, I quite like having a properly harsh downside. Those feel rare now adays. 

 

I'd much rather increase his ammo economy instead. His damage is low, but not awful given how easy it is to stay safe. But the sheer amount of resources he needs just to match the damage of a single spear is honestly quite baffling. 

So I'd suggest doubling the amount of rounds that all crafts provide, that way you only need 5 marble to match the total damage that a spear can provide instead of 10 (which is still way to much but I digress). And I've mentioned this before, but I think Walter would really benefit from moonglass rounds that are on-tier with Marble and Cursed rounds. What would their other effect be? not sure. But Glass is plentiful and easily farmable enough that those alone would massively boost his ammo economy. 

[Golden Daemon]

Walter

The main problem with him is that using a ranged weapon to deal damage in a game like dont starve is just way too strong mechanically , and changing its numbers will either make it the absolute best form of damage dealing or not worth using at all.
So imo there should be a bit of change to how he can use his slingshot, an idea would be to make it so that he has to actually aim his slingshot (like the active abilities of forge darts) dealing higher more meaningful damage with each shot but also requiring a bit more skill and effort that would differentiate good walters from bad walters while at the same emphasizing good positioning for walter to prevent triggering his downsides.

As for taming beefalos, i would prefer if walter could gradually upgrade woby rather than just transition into using a beefalo, woby could also benefit from stances (like winter/shadow chester or beefalo personalities) that can change his stats and abilities to better accommodate what walter needs (overall i am a fan of dynamic power increases for characters during their playtime, like how wanda (Watches) / maxwell (shadow items) / wx (modules) / wigfrid (songs) /  wurt (merms) / webber (spider types)  slowly get stronger overtime and that their power is not static).

Willow:

The griefer problem with willow is not about her potential to grief people (as you already said , all characters can grief) but its about how fast she can access that potential and make it a reality (she spawns in game with a lighter already in hand) hence why shes a popular choice for griefers , but that aside, i dont think willow not getting a positive change/buff to her pyromancy should be rejected because of her griefing potential, if anything , it should incentivize the devs to change her a bit more to provide helping tools revolving around starting and stopping fires.
Edit: some people seem to be misunderstanding what im saying here. im not saying that willow IS THE griefing character, im just pointing towards why she became known as the griefing character.

As for bernie healing , i think bernie having a high health pool that is not easily healable until he is killed is better for game health overall, otherwise people would use bernie to tank all the damage all the time by spamming sewing kits, bernie is not supposed to fulfill a tank's role in the game all on his own, hes just supposed to be a buffer between willow and potential dangers that would come for her.
but i do agree that we need some unique voice lines or indicators that can inform us of bernie's health state without having to resort to mods.
as for willow exploding as she gets hit, that could become really contradictory to what bernie does for her, meaning that either you want willow to get hit (since the explosion does meaningful damage ) or you dont really care about having such ability in the first place (since its damage is negligible).

if i wanted to give willow a change that would be both unique in functionality , in line with her thematics and synergistic with her current kit , it would be to give her the ability to have additional effect whenever using fire staffs.
For example:
Willow attacks with fire staff could cause small explosions at the point of impact , dealing extra damage to the target and splash damage to other targets close to the primary target that get caught in the explosion , in addition the damage and the radius of the explosion scales with how insane willow is, so the lower her sanity is , the bigger and more damaging the explosions become.
this does two things:1- this limits the availability of this new source of damage and gives the player to choose between risking going completely insane for higher damage or to stay sane an play it safe
2- it synergizes with how bernie functions, bernie has a taunt ability that takes aggro from nearby enemies and clumps them all together around bernie and also protects willow from shadow creatures that would eventually spawn from fire staff usage if willow decides to go insane for higher damage.

And about the last part, i do think that it was weird when wickerbottom got a willow themed ability that willow could really benefit from, the best way klei could change the stereotype of willow being the griefer that burns all bases would be to give her the ability to stop those same fires and save the bases from burning.

Woodie:

woodie is probably my least favorite rework out of all the character refreshes so far, not because i dislike the new forms, but because of the fact that it just redefined who woody was completely , making him lose his identity and drift further into just being a jack of all trades master of none.
i wouldve really loved if they kept focusing on his axe lucy and redefined the werebeaver form instead of turning him into a living meme.
i mean i do like memes, i just dont like it when they end up killing potential.

Winona:

I completely agree with giving winona (and only winona) the ability to switch generators on and off, its both a qol buff to her ability to save on resources and also it makes winona a bit less redundant after she has already crafted her generators and catapults (which leads to winona being one of the most popular characters to switch from)

I personally would rather have winona's crafter items have higher quality than lower cost to craft ,or atleast being better at maintaining items.
Things like armors that she crafts having an extra 20% maximum durability or building that she place having more health ( not just walls , but placeable base buildings being able to take more hits from things like deerclops/explosions/meteors or take longer to fully burn down when aflame).

Being able to perform a secondary action with hammers that would do the reverse of smashing down structures (repairing already hammered/damaged but not fully destroyed buildings or restoring burnt buildings into their previous forms using less resources).

Or being able to use her trusty tape on nonmagical tools and armors with diminishing returns on individual items (first tape restoring the most durability while the subsequent ones keep restoring less and less until the tool/armor is beyond repair and you have to make a new one) rather than it being only usable on clothes and a cheaper version of sewing kit.

[Copyafriend]

7 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

The thing about willow is that she has a lot of grief potential

She literally has a lighter, with two grass and two sticks, so does everyone else.

idk why people think willow is THE griefing character outside of pyro griefers using her because it fits thematically.

 

what i’m saying is that people need to quit saying willow is a griefer even if you say “everyone can grief” after.
she needs to quit being seen as the griefer character.

She isnt a griefer, griefers play willow.

[Mike23Ua]

Woodie can actually “Grief” by turning WereMoose and charging into your base structures..then he can Goose Mode away at hyper speed to grief somewhere else.

Why is Willow still considered the grief character? Yes.. she spawns WITH a lighter which is literally just a Torch that has an extra ability of being able to fast cook food items. but.. now thanks to starting resources- anyone who joins your world after day 5 starts with a Torch too.

[JJ0264]

For Woodie

+ give Were forms to wear amulets (like the life giving amulet/lazy forger)

+ allow Woodie to craft a Moon amulets (stops force were-forms + exit were-forms when putting one on) (1 orange gem, 3 moon stone, 2 nightmare fuel)

+ allow Were-forms to eat Were-idols (to extend timer + alter between forms + heal 20 hp per munch) Woodie only takes damage when going human to Were-form

+ Were-goose is 10% faster and can honk to show everyone pinned location on the map

+ Were-beaver has a "new tail spin" that combines materials into stacks (also can harvest pickable stuff like grass and twigs)

+ Were-moose has 5% more defence (95% or marble Armor), can cancel charge attack, attacks 50% faster (that being normal attacking speed)

For Walter

+ Buff slingshot rate of fire (0.5% > 0.75%)

+ allow Walter slingshot to fire throwables items (like water balloons, or seaweed spikes)

+ stink-bomb rounds (2 rotten eggs + 1 guano) due to being blind the mob hit will attack the nearest mob, ammo will also drop a tiny stinky area that will drain sanity by -4.8 per/min

+ fire-work rounds (1 red gem + moon rock) hits 3 times with 15 aoe damage for a total of 45 damage

+ bumble rounds (2 killer bees + 1 taffy) flings killer bees at mobs (does 10 direct damage then 2 killer bees fight the mob) [this helps bring more attention to his bee allergies plus I think it's funny]

+ only players can access Woby (no monkeys)

- maybe trim some of the fat, so Walter is less of a "perk soup" (like sanity from trees + cooking faster)

[Dragonboooorn]

Walter, put your buffs away Walter

Im not playing with you right now Walter

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, Golden Daemon said:

The main problem with him is that using a ranged weapon to deal damage in a game like dont starve is just way too strong mechanically , and changing its numbers will either make it the absolute best form of damage dealing or not worth using at all.

In theory that's the case but in practice followers are already the best ranged weapons the game has to offer and there's no restrictions placed on them.

My main issue with Walter's slingshot is what is it's role even supposed to be? Some will say it's a weapon but it's a very poor one often excused by saying it's safer but using it draws out fights increasing the chances of taking damage or some outside force eventually intervening higher damage output is often the safest way to play because the longer a fight goes the more likely something goes wrong. If your against multiple enemies or a fast enemy your slow fire rate meaning your dps becomes even lower making the formerly mentioned problems even more highlighted.

On the other side of the spectrum there's those that see it as a support tool but honestly I feel like it fails hard in that aspect much harder than the weapon concept. Poop pellets I feel are the best in terms worthwhile crowd control vs cost but even it falls flat due to the extreme difficulty in using it against multiple enemies and this is because changing targets isn't intuitive while also keeping the slow firing speed that damaging rounds have despite there being no good reason for crowd control rounds to fire so slowly. Then we have freeze rounds it's just a worse ice staff with it's only grace being that it has a higher storage capacity and it's not even at least cheaper than a ice staff. Finally we have slowdown rounds in theory it's effect is very useful for a ranged playstyle since it slows down your enemies movement speeds but the exchange rate of 1 purple gem and a moon rock for 10 shots is costly for what the effect does and the duration it lasts while also suffering from the same issues poop pellets suffer from. Look at other existing crowd control methods like Maxwell's shadow sneak and shadow prison, or Wickerbottom's sleepytime stories and overcoming arachnophobia. In Maxwell's case his abilities are so cheap that you don't need to worry about over using them to aid you in combat. While in Wickerbottom's case her's take a bit more recharge to use but she doesn't have to invest time into upkeeping her crowd control abilities after she's made them.

In Walter's case his rounds are time consuming and resource intensive to build up, take up a fair bit of inventory space if you plan to use more than 1 or 2 different rounds, and make very little impact on combat and survival.

21 minutes ago, JJ0264 said:

- maybe trim some of the fat, so Walter is less of a "perk soup" (like sanity from trees + cooking faster)

This has always been such a nothing complaint but even more so post refreshes on all characters as they all have the so called "perk soup" at this point.

[Waitdire]

1 hour ago, JJ0264 said:

+ bumble rounds (2 killer bees + 1 taffy) flings killer bees at mobs (does 10 direct damage then 2 killer bees fight the mob) [this helps bring more attention to his bee allergies plus I think it's funny]

Now i want to shoot bee mines.

[Masked Koopa]

15 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

She isnt a griefer, griefers play willow.

To be fair her characterisation is wanting to burn everything.

Anyway for walter I think an interesting option could be allowing manual aim similar to seedshells in exchange for better damage. Right now we're working with autoaim, which means direct comparison to melee weapons will be possible, but I reckon forcing actual aim and timing onto walter's slingshot rounds could improve the experience quite a lot, and a similar treatment could be give to blowdarts.

[SuperDonuts]

I am not sure for your idea to make Willow to burn melee attacker, it might result in ashes drop, not so great. Or she should have a passive ability to remove flame from mobs with low hp. But it might be OP.

The rest looks interesting. 

[D_Good_Fellow]

 

I don't really play Woodie or Walter so I won't weigh in on them.

Willow and Winona could both use some tweaks though. They're my two favorite characters so I'd love to be able to have more to do as them. It's probably a holdover from the fact that they were the first two reworks, so more thorough updates like WX-78 and Wickerbottom weren't the norm. In fact, I believe the only change to Willow in her rework was Bernie's "BERNIE!" form.

Willow is actually a better balanced character than most players give her credit for tbh. Her fire immunity seems kind of redundant given how rarely fire causes significant damage to characters, but the ability to cook food without a fire pit and restore sanity basically at will are deeply underrated traits. In fact, winter is deceptively easier to play in as Willow because she can warm herself up much faster and passively regain sanity while doing it. Between Bernie and restoring sanity immediately with fire, Willow is pretty good at managing her sanity levels which creates a pretty distinct style for playing her. My main issue is that her play style doesn't quite match her personality as well as the other characters (her ability to easily put out smoldering fires is even accompanied by her admitting that it's out of character). My suggestion would be giving her some unique craftables made from charcoal and/or ash; I figure they can basically be clones of simple items that normally requires logs/wood to build (chests, wood flooring, log suit, maybe walls). The idea being that Willow would be able to burn down a forest and still do a lot with the spoils. Starting massive infernos as Willow is a lot of fun, but there should be more incentive to doing so than just making your base's crock pots and drying racks. Also, straight up, Wilson's insight torch buffs should have been given to Willow. I know it's been said before but it bares repeating. 

Winona's harder to figure out. As much as I love her design and character, I really don't like playing as her on account of the hunger penalty; it's wicked not worth the minor crafting boost that it balances. I never notice Winona's quicker crafting animation saving me time, but I do notice when I have to go out and get food about 2-3 times as often with her as any other character. Between this and the fact that it lengthens the crafting animation when hunger is low results in Winona taking significantly more time to base build than other characters, which is completely contrary to how her character should work. When I play as Winona I find myself playing lazier, avoiding doing things that cost hunger to avoid the drawback, which is definitely not an in-character way to play as her. Maybe it's because I'm not playing her right or something, but her unique craftables often feel like an afterthought considering how much the game punishes you for crafting as her.

On 7/2/2023 at 6:57 AM, Copyafriend said:

She literally has a lighter, with two grass and two sticks, so does everyone else.

idk why people think willow is THE griefing character outside of pyro griefers using her because it fits thematically.

 

what i’m saying is that people need to quit saying willow is a griefer even if you say “everyone can grief” after.
she needs to quit being seen as the griefer character.

She isnt a griefer, griefers play willow.

Yeah only an extremely low-effort griefer would play as Willow. She has no unique griefing abilities and, as you point out, the immediate access to a lighter is basically negligible when grass and twigs are available to everyone from the start. Anyone who's hypothetically playing as Willow to grief (which I've never even personally seen, for the record) simply doesn't know the game very well; they just picked the character who seems like a griefer no change to Willow's mechanics would make them do that less.

I feel like if you really want to grief, you play as Wickerbottom. She can summon hostile mobs, force weather conditions that severely inconvenience other players, and is even better at fire-based griefing that Willow thanks to Pyrokinetics Explained/Fiery Pen.