Willow re-reWork

[Yuuko]

tbh I've been largely satisfied with Willow as she has been, but feel the perks added to Wickerbottom and Wilson take away from our fire starter.  Its really frustrating because both of these perks were suggestions for Willow for a LONG TIME yet other characters get them while she is left behind.  Willow also needs a QOL change to her Bernie interaction.  Using Bernie is very awkward and cumbersome, often too risky to rely on.  2 things I feel are mandatory for Willow at this point are:

Too many other characters are stepping on her toes now.  Wicker's fire book and Wilson's torch range perk BOTH inadvertently take away from our fire girl's fire-girl-ness.  Before I was okay with her not having any fire perks but at this point she just feels like a lie.  Both of these perks have been suggested for Willow many times, it feels a bit like a betrayal that they would be handed off to other characters.  There is absolutely NO reason for her to be left out.  Her lighter should be able to absorb other fires to put them out, and should have an upgrade path to extend its range to equal Wilson's torch upgrade.

No matter how it is done, something needs to change with Bernie following Willow.  Whether he teleports, gets faster, w/e having him simply revert to being a small bear and unceremoniously get left behind is BAD BAD BAD design.

Its a small list, but imo these are now must-changes for Willow at this point.

 

The next idea is not needed like the two points above, but I think it would be a smart way to go to improve the Willow / Bernie relationship and further differentiate our two summoning girls.

Thematically - Willow and Wendy are different characters.  Wendy summons her dead sister and they work as a team to take on the world, where Bernie is summoned as a protector for Willow.  I think this means Willow should lean a bit heavier into Bernie, and it should be a bit more selfish and chaotic for other players.

Bernie is not summoned dependent on Willow's sanity, and is not dropped to the ground.  Instead when Willow holds Bernie in her hand equip slot she can click on him again to hug him, summoning the big version of Bernie.

If Willow attacks or gets attacked by a target that will direct Bernie's aggro for a few seconds, having him focus and attack only this target before he resumes his normal taunt and attack behavior.  Because he doesn't do the taunt he will not draw new aggro during this period but his dps is increased by not having this animation play out.  For maximum dps Willow will need to repeatedly engage the target to maintain Bernie's focus.

Bernie's damage per hit will scale inversely with Willow's sanity, weighted heavier at the lowest levels of sanity.  Basically unless she is low enough to summon shadow monsters Bernie is going to be weak, but if she pegs to 0 sanity his damage will be solid.

While equipped and summoned she can hug him again to ignite him.  When Bernie is ignited he will be engulfed in fire, acting as a light source and dealing aoe damage to creatures around him, possibly spreading fire.  His durability will drain constantly while ignited.  Hugging him while summoned will toggle this perk.

Unequipping Bernie will unsummon him.  Because she will not have any weapon equipped Bernie needs enough damage potential to replace her in combat.  Because he is in her inventory she can monitor his health and easily repair him mid-fight which is a plus.

 

I feel this fits well thematically with Willow as Bernie works to protect her from the darkness and other monsters.  This will create a fun play pattern with a lot of player expression in how to fight with Bernie.  Being mid sanity leaves Bernie weaker, but going low sanity introduces extra shadow monster spawns while working to direct Bernie's actions.  Hugging Bernie to ignite him gives an aoe bonus, but can also spread fires.  Because Bernie responds both to Willow's attacks and her being attacked she will still play an active role in even though Bernie is the primary source of damage.  Especially as her lowest sanity unlocks his extra power but also spawns shadow monsters she should have her hands full and NOT just be afk watching Bernie for the bigger fights.

Willow herself will do negligible damage so its important Bernie deals enough to compensate for her not just wielding a dark sword and holding f.

[maxwell_winters]

I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion, but if Willow receives changes, I don't want them to be all Bernie. I would prefer if she got some cool things to do with fire on her own. We have enough follower characters already but only one pyromaniac, and they only scratched the surface of her potential with fire.

[-Variant]

Been struggling on deciding if I wanted to make yet another thread asking for Willow touch-ups.
Bernie doesn't need many changes, it's Willow I'm worried about.

Maybe it's envy speaking, but seeing Wilson getting more fire-related perks with his torch tree over Willow, the fire lady, kind of stung.

I'm not saying I want the same perks for her, but to take her in that direction would be wonderful. Bernie stole the spotlight, it was a Bernie rework while the community was begging to let Willow even her her fire immunity back.

I've seen so many people suggest wonderful things for her, too many, I can't exactly say anything that's not been said.

[HowlVoid]

I have also been suggesting for so long that Willow could attack with flame items and not burn the loot. I feel like this alone would make her so different because so many items have a new interaction with her (torch, fire staff, fire darts). 

I've also suggested before that Willow . could set Bernie on fire. I mean he even looks a little crispy rn. This would make Bernie a threat against large enemy groups (maybe balance it around Bernie losing durability faster).

Finally, let willow set herself on fire lol. That just sounds so morbid and threatening. It doesn't have to even be an offensive ability, it can be utility. With torch/ campfire/ lantern durability low as a last resort Willow could just straight up become a human torch. Becoming a beacon of light in the darkness. Shed lose a bit of healthy, but slowly, cause if anyone can take it it's Willow. 

[-Variant]

44 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Finally, let willow set herself on fire lol.

Unironically, yeah!
Her and her army of Extra Adorable Lavae marching into a horde of threats sounds amazing. 

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Finally, let willow set herself on fire lol

Used to be able to light things in your inventory on fire, and b/c she was fire immune you would run around with like 20 burning logs in your inventory and just AOE melt things lol

1 hour ago, -Variant said:

Unironically, yeah!
Her and her army of Extra Adorable Lavae marching into a horde of threats sounds amazing. 

literally *anything* that lets me use Extra Adorable Lavae needs to be added to the game.

[Evelo]

Refresh... plz.
Though yea Willow and Winona need it.
Woodie I think should have it just so Lucy is important again.
Everyone else is great.

As to what Willow deserves, something fire related. As I've said so many times with Woodie, Woodie is an Insane Lumberjack first, Cursed with the Wereforms second.

Willow is a Pyromaniac First, Childhood trauma clinging stuffed bear weilding woman second.

However Klei can always change things maybe their design philosophy for both Willow and Woodie are different from their conception in which case at least communicating that would clear the air somewhat (for me at least)

[Gashzer]

I think bernie is fine as is, hes cumbersome but once you craft a few bernies (they are cheap enough) and a sewing kit then he isnt cumbersome anymore. Willow being able to cook/eat raw mushrooms on the go allows her to control her sanity easily. Willow is the only character i recommend sololy using mushroom planters and a diet of strickly mushrooms, for this reason.

However Willow definitely needs better fire abilities. No one uses the fire staff or fire dart cause you risk losing loot. Willow should be able to super charge both them items to do massive direct fire damage as well as the DoT damage, her mastery of fire should stop loot being burnt to ashes.

Boom, shes perfect!

Edit: Thought of new idea, willow can use her lighter to create a fire whip attack allowing her to do 34 damage plus 100% of time setting mobs on fire without burning up loot (only exception that any food drops gets cooked) also 25% of hits causes a AoE fire explosion setting all nearby mobs on fire briefly for 2secs of fire panic but no direct damage (Three tail whip; fire edition lol). Costs 2% per attack. Be a great early game weapon with late game use for setting bishops or bosses on fire with abit more range than regular melee.

[Antynomity]

9 hours ago, Evelo said:

Refresh... plz.

literally the same thing

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, yourAnty said:

literally the same thing

Making a new kitchen after tearing down your old one is vastly more work than changing how you organize your bookshelf.
That's how I see the difference between Rework (kitchen remodel) and a Refresh (reorganization)

[MondayNight]

16 hours ago, Shosuko said:

...Hugging Bernie to ignite him gives an aoe bonus, but can also spread fires.

This alone, even as a Walter-Willow co-main, would make me start vote-kicks on any Willow popping out of spawn, especially if they're newbies/noobs/casuals (judged by the skins they wear - for majority of cases is a fine/valid indicator). Am sure KLei is also aware of what a "pyromaniac" perk involving fire-spread, fire explosions, combustion on large scale and the like will get in return as play-style consequences: the ire of servers at large. When DST entered its initial Beta I was forced to kick a friend from my personal server because of the old Willow's con when Insane - dropping fires at her feet: she accidentally and repeatedly burned my kitchen and parts of camp like that. Imagine what will happen when, in case of OP's proposal, some Willows will - even incidentally - engulf BERNIE! on fire & run around bases fighting stuff: engorging all in flames in said process. At the very moment Willow is still seen as a "classic griefer pick". With exemplified rework focusing on a "pyromaniac" Willow spreading fires mechanic such impression will tenfold resulting in the outright ban of her character from probably most community co-op servers out there and instant-kick in pubs such as KLei's official ones. With rest of proposals I may be fine, but certainly no "Dark Child Annie and her fire-demon bear toy Mr.Tibbers" clone in DST.

Of note is that current re-worked Willow may feel lackluster in front of Wickerbottom's and Wilson's because, at a certain point in KLei's characters "refurbishment quest", devs seem to have decided to amp a lot more those subsequential reworks on the bon department as opposed to when they first started. Hence yes, perhaps is time some early ones like Willow and Winona get "2nd wind" attention in future QoL updates, alongside Walter and Woodie maybe.

[-Nick-]

Willow could have a special kind of fire that doesn't spread like normal fire and doesn't burn drops.

[Mysterious box]

10 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I think bernie is fine as is, hes cumbersome but once you craft a few bernies (they are cheap enough) and a sewing kit then he isnt cumbersome anymore. Willow being able to cook/eat raw mushrooms on the go allows her to control her sanity easily. Willow is the only character i recommend sololy using mushroom planters and a diet of strickly mushrooms, for this reason.

I'd say Bernie just needs quality of life tweaks. For example if hostile shadow algined creatures are around he should activate regardless of her sanity state for things like shadows spawned from nightmare lights or fuel weaver for example.

Also you should be able to see his hp and sew him while big even if they make it less effective while big. Finally you should be able you should be able to forcefully shrink Bernie back down and unless you do he should teleport to you when out of range like other followers assuming he's still active.

[xDarkSoul18x]

This is why I was skeptical about the Wilson "Talent tree". I love RPGs but I think this should have been in a future update for all characters to give them all some sort of progression system with skills to have based on their character, if that is the road they were going to go down.

We should be able to put a helmet on bernie lol or at least buff her damage with fire, like from fire blowdarts or fire staff. 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, xDarkSoul18x said:

This is why I was skeptical about the Wilson "Talent tree". I love RPGs but I think this should have been in a future update for all characters to give them all some sort of progression system with skills to have based on their character, if that is the road they were going to go down.

We should be able to put a helmet on bernie lol or at least buff her damage with fire, like from fire blowdarts or fire staff. 

I think they should increase the hp to 3k and give 60% damage reduction against shadow aligned if we're boosting his durability 

[Lardee]

1. Give Bernie's attacks AoE like new Deerclops

2. Make Willow immune to overheating from burning objects (overheating from ambient temperature or non-fire sources are okay).

3. Make Bernie's appearance change the more he's damaged and let Willow repair him while he's giant.

4. Let Willow set Bernie on fire (someone else suggested this too)

5. Fix Bernie so that boss mobs such as Grumble Bees and Suspicious Peepers are drawn to him. Suspicious Peepers and Grumble Bees in Phase III/IV just ignore him and target Willow.

[Atkvin]

Now that I've been reminded of it, inventory burning is such a ripe source of potential that should be developed into an intended part of Willow's kit, with clearer UI and be redesigned mechanics.

Maybe instead of overdestructive, uncontrollable insanity fires, at low sanity Willow would simply randomly set any flammable item in a slot of her inventory on fire to satiate her own pyromania as a new and more defined drawback - making it a destructive risk to her resources but not to an entire base or forest, and encouraging regular indulgence in setting things on fire.

Inventory burning would no longer cause flammable objects near Willow to catch on fire, but would cause Willow/any structure holding a burning item to provide light and warmth (and pyromaniac sanity) for as long as the stack of item burns - burning one by one through the stack.

This would allow it to provide a decent duration of light without taking up a hand slot, at the cost of resources. (Though burning items in any structure other than a scaled chest would probably cause the container itself to start smoldering)

Several items being burnt at once would begin to cause overheating damage to Willow herself and enemy mobs, though perhaps with a limit as to how much can be allowed at once. This is imo the only way fire combat could feasibly be implemented.

Bernie could have a separate one-slot inventory to integrate the mechanic of inventory-burning into him too! 

[Zcristwell]

I think the first issue with this Beloved character is that she is virtually unplayable thanks to new players trolling. I play console ps4/5 and Willow is banned on Site because of their pyromaniacal tendencies, and yes she was reworked but most veteran players won't treat her new perks as considerable enough to not immediately kick or ban. Add to that the fact that at least in public servers newer Willow player aren't Staying when its winter.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of if not the least played Character. People banning Willow players on sight if they remotely care about their world is considerable to say the least. 

Which is why I say she's virtually unplayable.

[-Variant]

Why do I see like almost everyone saying Willow is being shot on site because she's a griefer character?
Like, I see this a lot in other DST based Discords and yeah I don't doubt some people happen across servers that do this now and then but I don't ever actually see it being put into action, like, ever!

I've seen more WX and Wolfgang players be banned from pubs on sight than I have Willows, people rarely provide anything when I ask, either.
On the chance this is the case and I've been lucky by some miracle I still don't think that's a fair excuse at all to not touch her and/or experiment with more fire based abilities/mechanics. 

It feels like an awkward record on repeat, as if it's a blockade or some hurdle to overcome when it comes to her character. 

[maxwell_winters]

4 minutes ago, -Variant said:

It feels like an awkward record on repeat, as if it's a blockade or some hurdle to overcome when it comes to her character. 

Besides, it's completely devoid of any logic. There is absolutely nothing she can do with fire that the other character can't (which is unfortunate for a pyromaniac). They might as well ban everyone who crafts a torch.

[Zcristwell]

13 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

Besides, it's completely devoid of any logic. There is absolutely nothing she can do with fire that the other character can't (which is unfortunate for a pyromaniac). They might as well ban everyone who crafts a torch.

This is true but its pretty likely, at least on ps4 and it's not one hundred percent of the time but last I checked it was often. The other thing. There's an argument that Willow just doesn't bring enough to the table to keep around which is the reason someone I know has banned Willow. Then again you can be banned for joining a hosted world regardless of the character  picked simply because console players are more likely to be antisocial. But I digress I'm here because I would like to see a rework.

[maxwell_winters]

5 hours ago, Zcristwell said:

This is true but its pretty likely, at least on ps4 and it's not one hundred percent of the time but last I checked it was often. The other thing. There's an argument that Willow just doesn't bring enough to the table to keep around which is the reason someone I know has banned Willow. Then again you can be banned for joining a hosted world regardless of the character  picked simply because console players are more likely to be antisocial. But I digress I'm here because I would like to see a rework.

There is a huge difference between saying that Willows are banned because of "their pyromaniacal tendencies" and because "they don't bring enough to the table to keep". The former is a harmful narrative which isn't true because she no longer sets fires by herself at low sanity. It prevented Willow from getting her unique fire abilities in the rework, which might have been more helpful for the team than what she has now. The latter is a valid criticism, and I can totally see that. She doesn't give much to others, and even stuff she provides (lighters and Bernie) is niche.

[goatt]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:11 PM, HowlVoid said:

Finally, let willow set herself on fire lol.

I know she's immune to fire damage, and this is a video game. But I personally feel awkward she can actually do that. But at the same time, I like the idea.

 

I'm thinking of a way around it. I remember Willow in one short burnt Wicker's library and she served as Charlie's puppet. Maybe she can have some magic fire ability from Charlie which might include setting a dark fire on herself.

[HowlVoid]

7 hours ago, goatt said:

I know she's immune to fire damage, and this is a video game. But I personally feel awkward she can actually do that. But at the same time, I like the idea.

 

I'm thinking of a way around it. I remember Willow in one short burnt Wicker's library and she served as Charlie's puppet. Maybe she can have some magic fire ability from Charlie which might include setting a dark fire on herself.

Fire magic is a really nice suggestion. Her hair could unfurl from it's ponytails and rise into flame hair. 

Random Google pic for concept

It's less willow setting herself on fire and more becoming a living flame herself. 

If it made her a walking campfire (the stone one so as to not set everything on fire), as a lavae is, that would be neat. "Hey willow let me cook this meat on your head." Lol

Willow walking through the night as fire incarnate without the need of torch nor lantern just sounds badass. 

Edit: Cooking on her head was a silly joke, but I think she should be able to cook things in her inventory as she already does minus using her item. Idk how she would transform though, maybe with enlightenment? Enlightenment is her achilles heel ATM. Maybe give her firestorm form few extra things.

[Stonetribe]

Yes, on demand Bernie summon please. I don't even mind if it still requires you to be be insane and doing so sets your sanity to zero. Also yes on the seeing his current health and being able to using a sewing kit on him while he's big. All three of these things are changed that I've wanted for a loooooong time.