Don't Starve Together Roadmap 2023

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would prefer for “Core Game Enhancements” to not include character skill trees at all if I’m going to be perfectly honest about it…

To me skill trees are no different from Character Refreshes/Reworks..

When they say “Core” I expect it to impact the actual way I’ll be playing and experiencing the core gameplay loop, character skill trees only impact that particular character- hence why it should’ve just been labeled as a Refresh.

However- there actually IS content Klei has been adding throughout the updates that DO impact core gameplay, like the scrapbook, and that new “discoveries” waypoint guide, or even something as adorable as being able to “Sit” in Chairs (if chairs weren’t so difficult to obtain) that’s been talked about enough so I won’t go into detail again here.

What I would consider core gameplay updates would be stuff like new ways worlds generate, such as: Broken apart into multiple archipelago islands, or while highly unlikely to happen anytime soon- Mountains and slopes. Or new Weather effects or updates to existing weather effects and Seasons (Aka new mobs for winter/summer, etc..) Perhaps even some new world set pieces that let for example: PigKing spawn in a Swamp telling a story of how Merms are attempting to overthrow his Kingdom.

Something that prevents players from just always knowing where to go to find Pig King, etc…

CORE Gameplay Enhancements that effect everyone- Regardless of which character your playing as. 

I was excited when every character had been reworked and we could finally move on to bigger better game content updates & was disappointed when we started reworking them AGAIN (for a third time..) with character specific skill trees.

It's a core enhancement cause it adds core mechanics to the game. A new mechanic that changes the game drastically as a whole.

[Creatorofswamps]

17 hours ago, lenship2 said:

wasn't it confirmed to be wx, walter, and wurt on stream? or am i just remembering wrong

Can you tell me where you saw it?

[Jakepeng99]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:29 PM, lenship2 said:

wasn't it confirmed to be wx, walter, and wurt on stream? or am i just remembering wrong

That is a good trio. Wx's circuit balance needs fixed (no they are not op), Wurt is my main character, and Walter is Walter

[Creatorofswamps]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:29 PM, lenship2 said:

wasn't it confirmed to be wx, walter, and wurt on stream? or am i just remembering wrong

Can you please tell me which stream it is?

[lenship2]

1 hour ago, Creatorofswamps said:

Can you please tell me which stream it is?

should be the latest one, but i genuinely dont know if its true

[maxwell_winters]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:29 PM, lenship2 said:

wasn't it confirmed to be wx, walter, and wurt on stream? or am i just remembering wrong

If that's true, I'm glad Walter is next but I don't think WX and Wurt need it as urgently as Wanda and Wigfrid.

[SuperDonuts]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

If that's true, I'm glad Walter is next but I don't think WX and Wurt need it as urgently as Wanda and Wigfrid.

You mean Warly and Willow? 

[maxwell_winters]

2 hours ago, SuperDonuts said:

You mean Warly and Willow? 

I agree that Willow desperately need something. But Warly can hold for now. His combat suffers, but he's got a wide range of non-combat advantages.

I'd choose Wanda and Wigfrid because they are combat characters who lose their combat strength against planar enemies. Wigfrid becomes a Wilson and her helmets become less useful. Wanda becomes a glass toothpick instead of a glass canon.

[WenericMember]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

I agree that Willow desperately need something. But Warly can hold for now. His combat suffers, but he's got a wide range of non-combat advantages.

I'd choose Wanda and Wigfrid because they are combat characters who lose their combat strength against planar enemies. Wigfrid becomes a Wilson and her helmets become less useful. Wanda becomes a glass toothpick instead of a glass canon.

Willow just got such a rough deal.

Wickerbottom has a better role at extinguishing fires getting fire staffs as a result

Bernie feels like a discount Abigail who gets more HP in exchange for losing AOE and only being available at low sanity.

Pretty much all her other benefits are circumstantial at best.

People call walter the worst character in the game but... He at least has multiple uncontested abilities. Woby, sanity mechanics, slingshot... They may not be good particularly but they're at least unique.

Aside from that, I think Wanda at least has enough utility with her different watches that she's still in an alright position.  Wigfrid probably needs something soon though, as she's probably the worst of the combat characters.

[lenship2]

1 hour ago, WenericMember said:

as she's probably the worst of the combat characters.

she still has life steal, sanity + enlightened crown, and 25% resistance to every damage source

[WenericMember]

3 hours ago, lenship2 said:

she still has life steal, sanity + enlightened crown, and 25% resistance to every damage source

Sure, not going to deny that she still has a lot of benefits. But her competition is Wanda & Wolfgang.

The comment wasn't to say Wigfrid's Bad. Just that she has incredibly fierce competition

[Jakepeng99]

22 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

If that's true, I'm glad Walter is next but I don't think WX and Wurt need it as urgently as Wanda and Wigfrid.

Wx needs one. Wurt needs one too. Both of these two need it to fix some of their design.

16 hours ago, WenericMember said:

Willow just got such a rough deal.

Wickerbottom has a better role at extinguishing fires getting fire staffs as a result

Bernie feels like a discount Abigail who gets more HP in exchange for losing AOE and only being available at low sanity.

Pretty much all her other benefits are circumstantial at best.

People call walter the worst character in the game but... He at least has multiple uncontested abilities. Woby, sanity mechanics, slingshot... They may not be good particularly but they're at least unique.

Aside from that, I think Wanda at least has enough utility with her different watches that she's still in an alright position.  Wigfrid probably needs something soon though, as she's probably the worst of the combat characters.

Wigfrid is better than Wolfgang. Saves more resources and buffs team.

[arubaro]

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wx needs one. Wurt needs one too. Both of these two need it to fix some of their design

how they need them over Walter or willow? wx is just Wilson on steroids and rifts only reduced the times where they will face their wetness downside since in cave there is acid rain and hail in the surface.... and wurt still have the most confortable late game and can throw easy to recruit mobs to melt the new varg. Their AI could be improved so they see the vine as part of the BS

[Dextops]

15 minutes ago, arubaro said:

wurt still have the most confortable late game and can throw easy to recruit mobs to melt the new varg. Their AI could be improved so they see the vine as part of the BS

Wurt is a load of wasted potential. I’m not even talking about whether she’s bad or actually op (I think she’s bad but that’s beside the point). It’s that her merm kingdom/ town building does basically nothing new.
She has 2 Merms, the og Merms and Merms with better stats (both of which are just pigs but better) and a merm king who just gives stat boosts (and some arguably lack luster trades)

Wurt could have so much more and is sitting on so much potential but to me it all feels squandered. They could’ve added a unique merm type who don’t just do what’s already done before (like seriously there were already 2 resource gathering characters before wurt, I don’t see why we needed a third one), or given some better effects to merm king that actually change the flow of the game, or even given him some unique trades depending on the species of fish.

 

basically my point is

give wurt 3 skill trees combined 

[Jakepeng99]

25 minutes ago, arubaro said:

how they need them over Walter or willow? wx is just Wilson on steroids and rifts only reduced the times where they will face their wetness downside since in cave there is acid rain and hail in the surface.... and wurt still have the most confortable late game and can throw easy to recruit mobs to melt the new varg. Their AI could be improved so they see the vine as part of the BS

Wx is good in terms of power and design. But his circuit balance is bad, which results in Wx being nightvision with 25% increased speed 90% the time. I explained it more recently, they need to buff circuits and potentially rework how durability works on circuits (or remove it) to not massively penalise switching.

 

Dextops explained Wurt pretty well, in terms of power she is the strongest character in the game for mid-late game and especially longterm worlds, but i am not talking about power here (i made a skill tree showing everything i would like from her even though it is high expectations, currently making a "Merm kingdom" is not really as fun as it sounds, it is none functional merm kingdom)

 

Walter was included in the trio mentioned so i don't need to discuss him.

 

Willow needs it more but i didn't say Wurt and Wx need it more than Willow. 

11 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Wurt could have so much more and is sitting on so much potential but to me it all feels squandered. They could’ve added a unique merm type who don’t just do what’s already done before (like seriously there were already 2 resource gathering characters before wurt, I don’t see why we needed a third one), or given some better effects to merm king that actually change the flow of the game, or even given him some unique trades depending on the species of fish.

I know it is a fan idea, but i hope they add fire merms who use spittle fish. If making a merm kingdom was kind of like making a clash of clans base (i like the idea of merms being able to semi-automate things) it would be awesome.

[Mike23Ua]

I would prefer more early game content, things I can do within a couple in game days, such as building a boat and sailing to a Hamlet Jungle out on the ocean somewhere.

I don’t understand why Klei has been locking new gameplay content behind super super late game progression..

In fact the reason WHY I fiddle with World Gen settings in the first place is so I’m not playing in the same highly repetitive gameplay loop over and over again until I reach a point where something “new” happens.

Its why I Opt to toggle randomized weather seasons so I never know what to prepare for or expect, it’s why I toggle Lunar & Shadow Rifts to ON in Day 1 worlds so the game can challenge me in new ways right out the starting gate.

Its Why I enjoy character reworks, refreshes, new dlc characters, and to a certain degree, even the “skill trees”

Its why two of the things I request the most (Archipelagos & Elevated Land) are at the top of my wishlist of features I want to see in the game.

What I most certainly do not enjoy is boss fights that take me 2 weeks of many failed attempts to finally beat that last over 40 minutes, I do not enjoy having to do a bunch of long overly drawn out quests to get the game challenge me in new and creative ways.

And when you think about it- I did not 100% complete everything there was to do in Dont Starve before jumping into Reign of Giants, or Shipwrecked, or Hamlet, or even DST.. 

I wanted a new & fresh experience right out the starting gate..

And what frustrates me to absolutely no end- Is that over the years Klei has been adding new content into DST, pouring their heart and souls into new mobs and animations- but they’re so severely limited in what they do vs what they COULD do..

A great example of this can be found in your Scrapbook under “Briar” Thats literally what it’s listed as, just a Briar & the description for it says the player can pluck it to obtain flower petals..

Now here’s my problem with that: These “Briars” only spawn in a specific location near specific set pieces, when they should’ve probably been able to pop up anywhere with random good (& not so good..) surprises.

Monkey Pirates (as much as players hate them..) could’ve been so much more, instead of being on one tiny island, they could’ve inhabited multiple random islands at sea, and players who turned into Wonkey could maybe even do really cool crap like be able to sail through pirate territory disguised as one of their crew so they don’t get attacked, or even better- Maybe Wonkey (and pirate monkeys) could’ve had an exclusive trading economy spanning several islands at sea, Perhaps Trading Bananas to various monkey captains could’ve rewarded you pirate treasure maps, or ship upgrade parts, or maybe even pirate coins that could be spent elsewhere like the various lucky gold nugget mini games in Year of Events.

My point is that a lot of the recent updates have focused almost exclusively on players who have dedicated hundreds of thousands of hours into one game world.

But that’s not the type of game I bought Dont Starve or Even DST expecting it to be..

Even the original roadmap when Klei first started updating DST seemed to hint at being able to easily just build a boat and sail to new locations to explore-

Traveling to new lands sounded so so promising…

But then we got tiny islands the size of Moon Quay or worse- Smaller Islands with nothing at ALL on them..

Id LOVE to have Klei just go back and relook at all the content that’s already in the game… and do some things like redesign how that content is presented to the players- such as making Moon Quay as big and as content rich as a mainland Biome.

In my opinion there’s been far too much focus on super late game content or character specific skill trees & id really just like to see something everyone can dabble into- like how Reap What You Sow made Gardening so much more engaging, complex, but rewarding.

[WenericMember]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would prefer more early game content, things I can do within a couple in game days, such as building a boat and sailing to a Hamlet Jungle out on the ocean somewhere.

I don’t understand why Klei has been locking new gameplay content behind super super late game progression..

In fact the reason WHY I fiddle with World Gen settings in the first place is so I’m not playing in the same highly repetitive gameplay loop over and over again until I reach a point where something “new” happens.

Its why I Opt to toggle randomized weather seasons so I never know what to prepare for or expect, it’s why I toggle Lunar & Shadow Rifts to ON in Day 1 worlds so the game can challenge me in new ways right out the starting gate.

Its Why I enjoy character reworks, refreshes, new dlc characters, and to a certain degree, even the “skill trees”

Its why two of the things I request the most (Archipelagos & Elevated Land) are at the top of my wishlist of features I want to see in the game.

What I most certainly do not enjoy is boss fights that take me 2 weeks of many failed attempts to finally beat that last over 40 minutes, I do not enjoy having to do a bunch of long overly drawn out quests to get the game challenge me in new and creative ways.

And when you think about it- I did not 100% complete everything there was to do in Dont Starve before jumping into Reign of Giants, or Shipwrecked, or Hamlet, or even DST.. 

I wanted a new & fresh experience right out the starting gate..

And what frustrates me to absolutely no end- Is that over the years Klei has been adding new content into DST, pouring their heart and souls into new mobs and animations- but they’re so severely limited in what they do vs what they COULD do..

A great example of this can be found in your Scrapbook under “Briar” Thats literally what it’s listed as, just a Briar & the description for it says the player can pluck it to obtain flower petals..

Now here’s my problem with that: These “Briars” only spawn in a specific location near specific set pieces, when they should’ve probably been able to pop up anywhere with random good (& not so good..) surprises.

Monkey Pirates (as much as players hate them..) could’ve been so much more, instead of being on one tiny island, they could’ve inhabited multiple random islands at sea, and players who turned into Wonkey could maybe even do really cool crap like be able to sail through pirate territory disguised as one of their crew so they don’t get attacked, or even better- Maybe Wonkey (and pirate monkeys) could’ve had an exclusive trading economy spanning several islands at sea, Perhaps Trading Bananas to various monkey captains could’ve rewarded you pirate treasure maps, or ship upgrade parts, or maybe even pirate coins that could be spent elsewhere like the various lucky gold nugget mini games in Year of Events.

My point is that a lot of the recent updates have focused almost exclusively on players who have dedicated hundreds of thousands of hours into one game world.

But that’s not the type of game I bought Dont Starve or Even DST expecting it to be..

Even the original roadmap when Klei first started updating DST seemed to hint at being able to easily just build a boat and sail to new locations to explore-

Traveling to new lands sounded so so promising…

But then we got tiny islands the size of Moon Quay or worse- Smaller Islands with nothing at ALL on them..

Id LOVE to have Klei just go back and relook at all the content that’s already in the game… and do some things like redesign how that content is presented to the players- such as making Moon Quay as big and as content rich as a mainland Biome.

In my opinion there’s been far too much focus on super late game content or character specific skill trees & id really just like to see something everyone can dabble into- like how Reap What You Sow made Gardening so much more engaging, complex, but rewarding.

You can enable rifts in world gen settings though? So it really isn't if you don't want it to be?

Also, if I'm reading the roadmap correctly I think they were more talking about the new player experience than earlygame in terms of world gen, but I think it was written vaguely.

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wigfrid is better than Wolfgang. Saves more resources and buffs team.

I don't use either character that much, so I was largely going off of discussion I read, so fair enough.

[grm9]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:19 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

Wigfrid is better than Wolfgang. Saves more resources and buffs team.

Either back up such claims with data or don't make them. The only ways she might save resources are the durability song and sanity song, assuming you kite. With less than three players durability song is worse than just playing as wolfgang, since wolfgang has x2.6 durability because x2.6 damage and wigfrid has around x1.56 durability (x1.25 damage * x1.25 durability) and the sanity songs are hardly useful on most bosses because most of them don't have sanity auras or don't live for long enough to cause issues with sanity and you will likely be using void robe for rift bosses to negate sanity auras anyway and wolfgang makes fights around 26% faster with 6 players, while wigfrid makes them around 4% faster, leaving less time to make mistakes and get sanity drained by auras with wolfgang.

[Jakepeng99]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:55 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Id LOVE to have Klei just go back and relook at all the content that’s already in the game… and do some things like redesign how that content is presented to the players- such as making Moon Quay as big and as content rich as a mainland Biome.

Yeah, there is alot of things that feel unfinished like oceans and caves which they dropped and started doing a new arc instead.

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

ways she might save resources are the durability song and sanity song,

The health song heals a significant amount. She also has access to efficent helmets.

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

since wolfgang has x2.6 durability because x2.6 damage

No, Wolfgang has 2x damage. "Either back up such claims with data or don't prove them"

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The health song heals a significant amount. She also has access to efficent helmets.

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 assuming you kite

 

[Jakepeng99]

18 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you will likely be using void robe for rift bosses to negate sanity auras anyway and wolfgang makes fights around 26% faster with 6 players, while wigfrid makes them around 4% faster, leaving less time to make mistakes and get sanity drained by auras with wolfgang.

You are ignoring how tanky wigfrid makes everyone to mimize mistakes, her reduction of everyone's weapon durability, and the fact wigfrid has a song which halves sainity auras aswell as one which makes players gain sainity per hit.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 

What is this meant to mean? Gaining 4hp every time you do a 4 hit kite is great.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You are ignoring how tanky wigfrid makes everyone to mimize mistakes, her reduction of everyone's weapon durability, and the fact wigfrid has a song which halves sainity auras aswell as one which makes players gain sainity per hit.

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the sanity songs are hardly useful on most bosses because most of them don't have sanity auras or don't live for long enough to cause issues with sanity

Name any boss except fuelweaver that causes a lot of issues with sanity (and even then, you'd likely have BQ crown to counter that by the time you do FW).

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

What is this meant to mean? Gaining 4hp every time you do a 4 hit kite is great.

You won't have to spend hp in the first place if you kite.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

Name any boss except fuelweaver that causes a lot of issues with sanity (and even then, you'd likely have BQ crown to counter that by the time you do FW).

All bosses with sainity drains.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

You won't have to spend hp in the first place if you kite.

Sorry, but everyone is not a mega pro who never gets hit. You may aswell tell me armour is useless.

[grm9]

56 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

All bosses with sainity drains.

Nightmare werepig, which has 10k hp (12k hp if you count in the healing it gets while idling), only requires 10 cooked cactus solo with ham bat and default damage multiplier, and 10 cactus is faster to get than the songs and only one player needs to go insane to start the fight, meaning everyone else can just start with full sanity and not need any cactus. Nothing to say about bosses with less hp than this, and most bosses with more hp than this except FW don't have insanity auras.

56 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Sorry, but everyone is not a mega pro who never gets hit.

It's still realistic to expect people with at least 80% absorption armor to stay alive when starting most fights with full hp without any healing when there are e.g. 6 players fighting a single boss.

[arubaro]

22 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Sorry, but everyone is not a mega pro who never gets hit. You may aswell tell me armour is useless.

if someone needs healing in the 1st phase means that they wont be able to finish the fight. Or will say that to be able to kite a treeguard do you need to be a mega pro...

wigfrid doesnt save more resources than wolfgang, not even healing since, if you tank as wolfgang you will finish most fights before diying. He is also able to wear marble suit without penalties which is a really cheap armor with good durability