Ruin gems Transformation needs to be adjusted

[Mr.Oshiro]

First of all, I want to say that the conversion value of orange/yellow/green gems is not reasonable.

You have to consume three orange gems to get a yellow gem, and then consume three yellow gems to get a green gem. However, their acquisition difficulty and approach are the same, and there is no hierarchical relationship.

The gem on the ancient statues in the ruins are completely random. If you are lucky enough, green gems will even account for the majority.The probability of obtaining orange/yellow/green gems by destroying Broken Clockworks or opening Ornate Chest is the same.

 

So using this method to convert gemstones is a very loss-making practice.

I hope it can be changed to 3 Purple gems =1 Orange/Yellow/Green gem.Because there are many clockwork bishops in the ruins, you can easily get a lot of purple gems. Usually, the number of purple gems is the largest after clearing the ruins.

When you are preparing to make equipment at the ancient altar, you may be distressed because there are not enough orange/yellow/green gems. If only you could convert purple gems into them.

In addition, it is not Wilson's exclusive right to use red gem and blue gem to synthesize purple gem.I want them to be 1 orange+1 yellow+1 green=5 purple gems(Transmute Gem Ⅲ).The conversion process needs a little loss, so I didn't set it to 6.In the later stage of the game, if you have many ruin gems, you can convert them into purple gems.Used for Telelocator Focus or making Moon Rock Idol, purple moon eye, etc.

[Masked Koopa]

Klei, a big part of the reason why we do not see orange gems as valuable is because they are not convinient to make use of long term.

If we could refuel a lazy explorer with an orange gem instead of having it break and delete our cane (or deconstruct it, and then go all the way back to ruins just to make a new one), there probably wouldn't be this idea that they are "lesser". Or hell, let us TP between deserters without an extra player using an orange gem. It feels like a complete cop out to just make the current player-perceived value of ruins gems become "official" instead of doing something to resolve this discrepancy.

As for Yellow gems, they probably just need a new craft or sthn, or maybe add even more uses for iridescent gems beyond farming pearled crab king christmas baubles and wicker books.Ya'll made star caller staves so good we end up with way more of them than we need, despite them being a useful item that is actually worth going to ruins for.

[Cassielu]

2 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

If we could refuel a lazy explorer with an orange gem instead of having it break and delete our cane (or deconstruct it, and then go all the way back to ruins just to make a new one), there probably wouldn't be this idea that they are "lesser". Or hell, let us TP between deserters without an extra player using an orange gem. It feels like a complete cop out to just make the current player-perceived value of ruins gems become "official" instead of doing something to resolve this discrepancy.

Yeah, lazy explorer actually very powerful, the only problem is walking cane are expensive. If there is no 3 walrus biome, one walking cane is obtained on average every 23 days. This huge cost discourages players from using lazy explorers, which is why orange gems are considered useless gem. This evaluation has nothing to do with the orange gem itself.

Since gem alchemy came into the game, I've been annoyed by the "some gem is better than the previous level gem" feeling. It completely breaks the gem's ability correspondence on lore, as if they are all some weird red/blue gem upgrade. Especially opal can be made by all the 6 gems, as if it were some geometric sequence rather than something more special.

[Theukon-dos]

5 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Yeah, lazy explorer actually very powerful, the only problem is walking cane are expensive. If there is no 3 walrus biome, one walking cane is obtained on average every 23 days. This huge cost discourages players from using lazy explorers, which is why orange gems are considered useless gem. This evaluation has nothing to do with the orange gem itself.

Well you could go sailing and get more walking canes from sunken chests. Not that you ever should do this, because it's time consuming, highly RNG based, and Walking canes are just about the only good thing you can get from sunken chests. But you can do it if you're desperate.

 

Anyways, in regards to OP's point. I think it's fine. Even if most gem sources treat the ruins gems equally (Sunken chests actually have a bias against green gems, speak of the devil). Given that Wilson's alchemy is the only way to get them that isn't RNG based, it makes sense for the ones generally considered "Stronger" to also be harder to get. 

[cybers2001]

If you're only measuring value of the gem based on drop rates, wouldn't yellow and purple gems be twice as valuable as the others, going by tumbleweed drop rates?

Jokes aside, even with equal drop rates, consumption rates are definitely not equal. Green gems are much easier to burn through than yellow and orange, and even if that weren't the case, you can use green gems to get more value out of your yellow and orange gems via construction amulets. Though this topic is mostly pedantic, anyway, as I don't think anyone would realistically place yellow and orange gems at equal tier to green gems.

[Yuuko]

I think you're misinterpreting a heirarchy of ruins gems where there really isn't one.  It could easily be 3:1 for ruins gems in a cycle of orange => yellow => green => orange if you wanted.  Due to the less desirability of orange gems, it makes sense Klei cuts this part out and makes it the entry from lower tier gems to ruins gems into alchemy via 3:1 purple => orange.  They aren't saying a green gem is worth 3 yellow gems.  Wilson's entire alchemy tree is based around loss.  1 large meat => 2 small meat.  3 small meat => 1 large meat.  2 blue gems => 1 red gem.  2 red gems => 1 blue gem.  So of COURSE no matter which ruins gem you're giving up, you're going to be losing more.  Its not 3:1 because one is 3x the value of the other, its 3:1 because you are losing resources to get the one you need.

It can stay this way, I don't mind it one bit.  I don't need that many green or yellow that I'm in a big hurry to get more after clearing the ruins and doing a few dfly.  I see Wilson's perk more as a stabilizer for if you have orange gems building up.  Sometimes I get to the ruins and knock down a few statues without getting the 1 more yellow or green I need.  With this I can do exactly as you say - and swap some purple + orange for the ones I want.

[slendyproject]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:35 PM, Cassielu said:

Yeah, lazy explorer actually very powerful, the only problem is walking cane are expensive. If there is no 3 walrus biome, one walking cane is obtained on average every 23 days. This huge cost discourages players from using lazy explorers, which is why orange gems are considered useless gem. This evaluation has nothing to do with the orange gem itself.

I loathe the way walking canes and the explorer is implemented into the progression. My biggest gripe with dst is that the regular walking speed is too slow, and this combined with the slow pace of the early game makes beginning a world an absolute slog. Why is the walking cane locked behind winter? Why is it not a guaranteed drop? Why arent the walruses part of winter houndwaves so that I dont have to walk through half the map every few days to fight a single one of them? Why does the upgrade of it feel like a downgrade. It should be refualable at the very least but I would rather have it have a cooldown for the teleport like wandas watches have and get rid of the durability on it. The explorer legit feels bad to craft, especially when its supposedly a reward from progressing through one of the more difficult areas of the game.

[Nweeky]

21 minutes ago, slendyproject said:

Why does the upgrade of it feel like a downgrade. It should be refualable at the very least but I would rather have it have a cooldown for the teleport like wandas watches have and get rid of the durability on it. The explorer legit feels bad to craft, especially when its supposedly a reward from progressing through one of the more difficult areas of the game.

As much as I'd love your idea of a cooldown based infinite lazy explorer, it doesnt really address the problem of orange gems being devalued since you would only ever need one. The game needs a genuinely useful sink for the gems, which the refueling part accomplishes. Maybe have the lazy explorer revert back to a walking cane once it reaches 0%? That way you could keep using the explorer without bleeding canes. Or have orange gems act as map teleports in a pinch similar to the new soul hopping, consuming a whole gem each time?

[slendyproject]

2 minutes ago, Nweeky said:

As much as I'd love your idea of a cooldown based infinite lazy explorer, it doesnt really address the problem of orange gems being devalued since you would only ever need one. The game needs a genuinely useful sink for the gems, which the refueling part accomplishes. Maybe have the lazy explorer revert back to a walking cane once it reaches 0%? That way you could keep using the explorer without bleeding canes. Or have orange gems act as map teleports in a pinch similar to the new soul hopping, consuming a whole gem each time?

If if it ever got cooldowns instead of durability I think a great use for the orange gems would be upgrading the explorer to make the cooldowns shorter. That would make them very valuable and make the explorer an actual significant upgrade to the cane intead of a sidegrade that is borderline a downgrade.

[Yuuko]

8 hours ago, slendyproject said:

I loathe the way walking canes and the explorer is implemented into the progression. My biggest gripe with dst is that the regular walking speed is too slow, and this combined with the slow pace of the early game makes beginning a world an absolute slog. Why is the walking cane locked behind winter?

It takes some practice, but its not too difficult to hit up the ruins for a magiluminescence and get back to the surface before the first full moon.  A magi can help you explore the top side pretty quick.  Its not quite as fast as the walking cane, but it is accessible earlier.

Although I disagree that the walking speed is "too slow."  It is slow, of course - like an axe or spear deal low damage.  Its the default you start with, and you work out getting more as you play.  Magi, walking cane, roads etc.  It only feels slow because you're used to running faster, but the entire game is playable without a walking cane.

[slendyproject]

48 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

It takes some practice, but its not too difficult to hit up the ruins for a magiluminescence and get back to the surface before the first full moon.  A magi can help you explore the top side pretty quick.  Its not quite as fast as the walking cane, but it is accessible earlier.

Although I disagree that the walking speed is "too slow."  It is slow, of course - like an axe or spear deal low damage.  Its the default you start with, and you work out getting more as you play.  Magi, walking cane, roads etc.  It only feels slow because you're used to running faster, but the entire game is playable without a walking cane.

I mean ive rushed the ruins before but the magi prevents you from using a backpack which I find very annoying especially early game where you have to haul a bunch of stuff somewhere to make a base.

The problem isnt the default walking speed itself I suppose but the fact that there arent many things that improve it especially in the early game where I wish the most I had it. The world of dst is quite big and you have to explore most of it to be able to make an informed decision about your base location. And it is quite annoying to explore. I wish spyglasses were a thing in dst, and that the world would guarantee that wormholes wont be useless to make exploring quicker, and I would really prefer if there was a reliable but difficult way to get a walking cane in the first autumn. 

Wx became my go to character because having a speed boost (or two...or three, dont judge me) right from the get go makes the game way more fun for me. I guess I could try using beefalo but from the few times I interfaced with the taming mechanics I wasnt a very big fan of them.