Woodie Buff Concepts

[MadMatt]

48 minutes ago, JaxckLl said:

The big downside of transforms is not sanity loss, it's hunger & health loss. There's also the inability to prep oneself for dealing with that hunger/health loss until after Woodie transforms back into a human, which often leaves one scrambling. No other character really has this pattern to them, literally everyone else can eat while partially full or eat while empty. Woodie cannot when transforming. -20 is often a prohibitive amount of damage to retransform, since Woodie has to first eat something to restore hunger, then health (potentially can do both at the same time, but realistically has to do more than one dish either way), and only then can he consider re-transforming. On top of that he likely needs to reequip some armour so he just doesn't auto-die and then there's the risk of low sanity & a stupid ******* terrorbeak. The sequence of actions needed is several times that of literally any other character, and that's all just to maintain a relatively moderate combat or harvesting mode active.

100% Agree it's an egregious amount of factors to consider just to utilize mediocre abilities. Still think sanity is the big downside since it risks the most damage without you being able to do anything about it, but yeah it's true that transforming makes things that would otherwise be simple a pain.
 

48 minutes ago, JaxckLl said:

This is why I say Woodie needs to be able to eat while transformed & why he needs better sanity management. It feels great to zip around as a Beaver or a Goose, or go toe to toe with Bearger as a Moose. What does not feel great is the most intense 5 seconds of micro every time you miss a Moose charge or you end up with just slightly too much distance between boulders.

It'd fix the issues of having to juggle so much but presents a new issue of Woodie then not having to worry about as much. If you can constantly fill up your stats then Moose for example just becomes infinite armor and weapon durability, Beaver becomes infinite tools, Goose becomes brainless exploration. The idols being limited in their time adds a fun albeit difficult aspect to using them since you can't use them for everything no matter how many resources you have. I'd rather Woodie be able to more easily and safely weave between his human and wereforms than be encouraged to constantly upkeep his wereform.

Quote

Everyone keep in mind that the Beaver is the best miner in the game not named Warly. That's what makes it good, not the wood chopping (because yeah, Lucy exists). Especially in super dense fields, such as in the caves, ruins, or lunar island, the Beaver is a godsend. Indestructible pickaxe and faster movement & mining speed? Yes please!

Also I want to refute this point because it's only really strong when gold is something you don't have an abundance of. Golden pickaxes are as fast if a little faster than Beaver, are dirt cheap once you've gotten some trinkets or frazzled wires, and you don't even need that many to match the Beaver. A bit less than two pickaxes about matches how many rocks you'd be able to gnaw before the Weremeter runs out, so 8 twigs and 4 gold. Early on that's a steep price, but later the Beaver becomes more expensive since as you've said before you have to deal with the stat cost which when factored in makes the Beaver more expensive than using gold picks and not much more effective.

[Dextops]

43 minutes ago, JaxckLl said:

Everyone keep in mind that the Beaver is the best miner

wurt?

[JaxckLl]

The transforms still have the downside of being limited. Warly is a better miner (and so might Maxwell, lets check out the update first), Wolfgang or Wigfried or Wanda (& Warly) all have high damage potential than Moose, and so on. They're strong but not disproportionate compared to the other characters. They also cost Monster Meat, which is very farmable later on but can be a real drag to produce in quantity in the early game before you have stacks of healing food.

I want to see the Wereforms as an upside, rather than a clunky alternative mode that gets in the way of the full moon content.

EDIT: Yes I forgot Wurt, good point. The cost of Wurt compared to Beaver is drastically different however. Woodie needs to spend a couple of monster meat and eat something once he turns back into a human (which you'll be doing anyway), which makes him much more directly comparable to Warly.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, JaxckLl said:

Wolfgang or Wigfried or Wanda (& Warly) all have high damage potential than Moose, and so on.

Actually even wilson or normal woodie himself has higher damage output than moose simply due to the lower attack speed on the punches.

[Copyafriend]

Honestly my favorite idea for buffs has always been just allowing amulets, thats healing over time w life amulet, speed buff, freeze amulet  for cc, looting, green amulet for flex.

basically many effects described can be achieved by amulets. It gives him some level of progression with his abilities. 
 

but honestly the goose is too slow, if i can outrun it with amulet + cane then its way too slow, especially when you count transformation time + waiting it out at the destination. It needs to be super fast to be worth it. 

 

[W0l0l0]

Here's a silly idea: Goose taunts mobs to prioritise them with agro, and when Woodie transforms back he releases a blast of feathers that distracts and deaggros mobs, giving a safe moment to not die. Could have amusing distraction potential.

[JaxckLl]

19 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually even wilson or normal woodie himself has higher damage output than moose simply due to the lower attack speed on the punches.

Depends on context. The charge gives you better DPS against bunched or slow enemies for example.

[Yuuko]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:05 AM, Riddla said:

I wished to try giving Woodie a chance to let his forms also grow with him as he progresses along

Yeah, I can see that.  I think DST prefers gating power, but not hard-gating it and not really having progression.  Wanda has to get thulecite crumbs before she can get her watch, but once she gets them she instantly has her watch.  Wicker has godly broken books that take a bit to get set up, but once you're set up she's online and you get infinite full moons and full rain control (seriously op lol)

I think the transforms have good limitations to them - unable to eat, access inventory, health and sanity penalties, etc - but they aren't quite useful enough just on a base level, and there is no reason the base level can't be good as its already gated.  You've got to make an idol for each forced transform, and no matter how good the forms are getting a random one a the full moon isn't going to break anything.

We have a pretty good stat line on what a "strong" character can do.  Wolfgang with a dark sword, Wanda with her clock.  Why don't we push moose form up closer to this limit?  I think we can all agree he shouldn't be AS good as these two, but certainly better than staying human form and just using a dark sword or ham bat...

That's the real problem - its rarely better to go moose form over a dark sword.  A dark sword is 68 damage per hit and moose is only 59.  Moose also attacks slower !!  This means you're usually better not using the power, and that is where I think the problem really is.  Wereforms are inconvenient enough with their restrictions we don't need them to also be just bad lol.  If we give moose form something like 101 damage per hit it will be clearly superior to Woodie using any standard weapons, which means you'll feel good about going through the trouble of switching to moose form for a fight.  You won't be as great as Wolfgang or Wanda but you'll still have your AOE charge (although I also think that should deal 101 damage on the charge but that might be too good)

imo there is no reason the transforms should be defacto worse than human Woodie, otherwise what's the point?

[MadMatt]

8 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

That's the real problem - its rarely better to go moose form over a dark sword.  A dark sword is 68 damage per hit and moose is only 59.  Moose also attacks slower !! 

I do wanna say that the Moose actually has about the same DPS as a regular player using a hambat if you animation cancel. Animation cancelling as Moose is pretty critical and not difficult since all you have to do is press a move key once your hit connects and hold f.
 

17 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think the transforms have good limitations to them - unable to eat, access inventory, health and sanity penalties, etc - but they aren't quite useful enough just on a base level, and there is no reason the base level can't be good as its already gated.  You've got to make an idol for each forced transform, and no matter how good the forms are getting a random one a the full moon isn't going to break anything.

But yeah everything you said here is very true. Woodie has to give up too much for too little when looking at his powers objectively. I don't think increasing the base stats is the right way to go about it though since Woodie's issue isn't just that his wereforms are weak, but that they are counterintuitive to Don't Starve's progression gameplay. Almost all other characters have abilities that either add on to, amplify, or replace in-game items and effects. Woodie's wereforms are mutually exclusive with virtually everything you can craft or gain so you don't feel the progression of your actions like with other characters unless you surrender yourself to being a fast chopping Wilson. Letting wereforms wear Amulets and encouraging Woodie to utilize the full moon to make his forms stronger, rather than it just acting as a refuel, would give Woodie incentive to explore the ruins and activate moonstorms. It'd give consequences for Woodie's actions which is more important than making Woodie stronger by default in my opinion.

[Copyafriend]

29 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

imo there is no reason the transforms should be defacto worse than human Woodie, otherwise what's the point?

In my opinion, your reasoning is sound, but your conclusion isn’t necessarily. 

weremoose woodie, shouldn’t be stronger than woodie with full gear. Because gear is expensive and weremoose is virtually free. 

i would go as far as to say, the moose is balanced, damage and protection wise: pretty good. 
 

you can even heal with jellybeans. 
 

which is pretty cool.

But theres nothing in the way of progression with woodie.

 

you get a couple idols, you use the goose one until you get a walking cane, you use the moose one on major battles until you have reliable strong weapons, (and for hoards forever) and you use the beaver to gather stuff… indefinitely if you want to. 

but just about everything woodie does is outclassed by regular gear to a large degree. 
the goose is cool for walking on water but its just kind of slow as a viable transportation option. It should at least be as fast as woby considering its the same relative price. 

additionally you as woodie sacrifice 20 health, and have to wait out the timer after you reach your destination, making it useless for anything other than long distance travel. And finally, while ocean travelling is VERY nice early on, its made massively less useful once you get a boat with two sails. You only need to go to the lunar island occasionally. 
 

This means the goose suffers from a LOT of issues post day 10 even. Its fantastic for early mapping, but once thats done its hard to find a use for it.

and on top of all that: it isnt even all that fast!

wx with his speed modules is literally faster than the man who sacrificed his health and all of his ability to do tasks just to move faster temporarily.

 Its rediculous, very much the weakest part of woodie by far. 
 

so what was my point again..

oh right it was progression.

 

so woodie, from day 8 or so, has plenty of idols for whatever a woodie needs idols for. He plateaus REALLY hard. 
 

and his transformations have decent power/utility… until they dont. I mean the beaver is the best transformation simply because there isnt a glass pickaxe, but theres better weapon/armor and better transportation.

so woodie needs a way to spend resources or equipment to make his transformations more worthwhile. 
 

especially the goose. The thing sucks.

[MadMatt]

14 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

especially the goose. The thing sucks.

Such fake news smh. Goose is a god send for finding Moon Quay!

 

For everything else though yeah Goose sucks.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, MadMatt said:

you don't feel the progression of your actions like with other characters unless

 

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

But theres nothing in the way of progression with woodie.

What other characters experience progression?  Most characters start at full power.  Some like WX or Wicker need to access certain things in the world, but there is no progression.  You make the modules or alarming clock you want and you're done.  You can rush ruins in a few days for thulecite crowns, t2 magic isn't really tough either.  Its not like you're grinding xp.  As a sandbox game gating is very limited, Klei even recently changed Pearl's house upgrades to eliminate the summer gate on Crab King / Celestial Champion.

Do you want the idols locked behind tier 1/2 magic?  Sure, why not.  It will give you something to do early I guess.  More rare ingredients?  idk, considering he has to craft them each time he uses them I think its more appropriate they are cheap.

I disagree that Weremoose should be "on par" with fully equipped Woodie.  The moose form is pretty obviously intended to be a combat form, yet combat oriented characters (wolf, wig, wand) are far ahead of him.  Wereforms shouldn't be comparable to Wilson fr lol

[MadMatt]

10 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

What other characters experience progression?

When I say progression I don't entirely mean their abilities themselves are locked, but that they contribute to regular progression. To give examples of characters that progress to me: Wolfgang progresses with stronger weapons as well as Warly, Wendy, and Wigfrid because of damage modifiers, WX's weapons and equipment also become more effective as he gets to pick and choose what he wants always available to free up space as well as being faster to make kiting easier, Maxwell literally strengthens his powers by making and using shadow equipment, even Wormwood progresses as he makes more efficient and effective healing methods to utilize bramble husk. 

I'm not going over everything, but every single item just adds on to a character's kit. Panflute, Weather Pain, Amulets, Armor, Weapons, EVERYTHING adds to 99% of character's abilities. Woodie is one of a few exceptions where his upsides are taken into account for virtually nothing you gain over the course of gameplay. It's less about progression, and more about synergy. Every character other than Woodie either has positive synergy or neutral synergy with items. The wereforms have negative synergy since you cannot use items at all and there is no way to improve these wereforms other than killing BQ/farming tillweeds and that only improves one of them practically.

[Copyafriend]

49 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Do you want the idols locked behind tier 1/2 magic? 

No? I never said i wanted the idols to be harder to obtain, i just want a way to make the transformations stronger (as in more effective) later on compared to literally the second i spawned in

49 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

disagree that Weremoose should be "on par" with fully equipped Woodie.

I at least said i am fine with how much dps and protection it has, i personally either want to give him a life amulet or a magi to either assist in tanking or allow for weak kiting. 

the only problem i have is the steady reduction in how useful the transformations are. They never get any better, but woodie himself does. As a result of this, the only time post deerclops that i use the moose is when i dont wanna waste armor, or if its spiders.

the only time i use the goose after getting even a basic walkint cane is going across the entire map or exploring the ocean, but if it had a magi it would be fast enough to justify transforming even when i have a magi and cane for woodie himself. 
 

the only time to use the beaver is mass gathering, which is nice, but i dont always need to chop a small forest down. 
 

Its just disappointing for the two new transformations to be outclassed so thoroughly by other options. Like its a crown and hambat, without any healing. Its pretty strong, but if i take too many hits i have to UNTRANSFORM, then heal, then RETRANSFORM. It adds like a whole minute of extra time for each extra healint pause you need. At that point i could have just made healing foods and used a helmet instead. Hambats aren’t exactly expensive

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

weremoose woodie, shouldn’t be stronger than woodie with full gear. Because gear is expensive and weremoose is virtually free. 

i would go as far as to say, the moose is balanced, damage and protection wise: pretty good. 

I feel like this is highly debatable considering the player would likely take less damage fighting normally than with slower movement and attack speed

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i will be happy with simpier buffs to make the forms worth in more situations

goose: faster

beaver: less time to unroot stomps and maybe buffing his combat stats for those who miss fighting as him and would make him less anoying when shadows start spawning and dont let you work or when you just eat the idol and hounds start barking (a less common problem with the changes tho). Fun fact, his bar takes in count fighting to prevent the fast draining so is fighting is intended to be a task for the beaver

moose: keep the slow hitting animation but add more damage, stunlock resistance (doesnt need to be fully stunlock inmune), higher hp for consistency with other characters (aswell as wendy should have less hp but that is other topic). Maybe higher armor? might be unnecessary if receives some kind of stunlock protection. I love clean the ruins as woodie but you always feel like a hambat and regular armor would make the job better and his best task, killing spiders, isnt that good if you get stunlock to death because of long is the charge animation

all forms should be better at resisting weather hazards or even totally inmune (i dont think any of those canadian animals have a really hard time in Canada's winter...)

4 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

weremoose woodie, shouldn’t be stronger than woodie with full gear. Because gear is expensive and weremoose is virtually free

it isnt free. You start with less hp and sanity, you have sanity drain debuff and you are trapped in that form with all the previous sh*t happening while also fighting what ever you are fighting. Too much risk for little reward (tbh the only reward is a mediocre aoe and having fun doing things in a different way)

moose is strong but needs a lot of practise to time well. He can handle multiple enemies and minibosses by spamming the charge (once i killed an old hound wave+shadows+multple spider queen at the same time but the risk is absurd, was for fun) but a mistake and end everything while in human form can do that things in a safer way even if it takes longer

i dont want to lose much of the risk but atleast make it feel like a reward if you perform well. Plus buffing him a little will open more scenarios where you can use the transformation 

[skile]

honestly, one of the changes that I think would be pretty good for Moose form is more hp.

for example, what if Woodie had immunity/resistance to monster food's drawbacks, similarly to Wilba.

he wouldn't be able to live off monster meat diet anyway, since eating 2 in a short time results in a random transformation, and it would make transforming using his idols a bit better (at least you wouldn't need to loose hp to turn into a form that can't heal and needs to fight).

alternatively, remove/lower hp costs of his idols specifically.

speaking of hp, as some other people mentioned, Woodie should have higher max hp(around 200 maybe?). I mean, he IS a lumberjack, right? no way he's just as sturdy as a hermit scientist. plus it would benefit the moose form again, as you'd have some more hp to play with.

another idea I saw on the forums a few weeks ago, but unfortunately I don't remember who suggested it, is dynamic max hp for the transformations. so for example, Moose could have 250 max hp, goose 50-75 and beaver 200 or something. if combined with no hp loss from the totems, you could have up to 250hp as Moose, so inability to heal wouldn't be as bad. I really like this idea, because it just makes sense. wouldn't a giant Weremoose have more health than a tiny goose?

in conclusion, letting the moose have more than maximum of 130 max hp at a time could be a great buff to him.

[W0l0l0]

3 hours ago, skile said:

wouldn't a giant Weremoose have more health than a tiny goose?

This effectively already exists through the armour that Moose has. 90% armour correlates to 1,500 health (-200 due to totem). Having the health work this way allows jellybeans to heal effectively for 10 times the amount and simplifies interactions such as max health penalties. If you want more health increasing the resistance is, in my opinion the simplest way to do it (95% resistance equates to 3000 health!, -400 due to totem)

[skile]

3 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

This effectively already exists through the armour that Moose has. 90% armour correlates to 1,500 health (-200 due to totem). Having the health work this way allows jellybeans to heal effectively for 10 times the amount and simplifies interactions such as max health penalties. If you want more health increasing the resistance is, in my opinion the simplest way to do it (95% resistance equates to 3000 health!, -400 due to totem)

idk why I didn't think of that.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, skile said:

I mean, he IS a lumberjack, right? no way he's just as sturdy as a hermit scientist

better yet.  Little girl with a summoning mechanic has the same hp xD

3 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

This effectively already exists through the armour that Moose has. 90% armour correlates to 1,500 health (-200 due to totem). Having the health work this way allows jellybeans to heal effectively for 10 times the amount and simplifies interactions such as max health penalties. If you want more health increasing the resistance is, in my opinion the simplest way to do it (95% resistance equates to 3000 health!, -400 due to totem)

but you can get high durability 90% armors 1st autumn so wilson will have more effective hp with less risks

[JaxckLl]

On 11/22/2022 at 5:05 AM, Riddla said:

Fair enough, I would like to at least explain why I wanted to go in such direction.
Woodie's transformations fall flat as you progress farther into the game. At the beginning, they're extremely fun, powerful, and cheap. As the time goes on however, the reason to use them shrinks further and further, as you gain access to far more useful and efficient equipment you can use, while letting Woodie actually use inventory, instead of being locked out of it.
I wished to try giving Woodie a chance to let his forms also grow with him as he progresses along, let him keep experiencing that fun once again with transformations and discover new stuff he can do as a reward for killing major bosses, rather than consciously thinking every time: "Why would I use moose form, if I already have marble suit and a hambat? And even then, I can actually heal in human form."
I thought letting him evolve his forms through boss materials would fit well - the constant is incredibly strange, and the bosses are bizarre, and so is Woodie with his unpredictable lycanthropy. The bosses are animalistic, and so are his forms, so I thought it'd make at least a bit of sense to make him be able to "use bosses weapons against them" by lightly imitating their attacks and abilities through wereforms.
I might've went far with this though. Too far. Not only have I tried to experiment with such absurdity with bosses, I also really wanted to try making extremely unusual abilities and stat bonuses, which I thought to make very noticeable while multiplying that fun factor behind playing Woodie, so the stat bonuses, the attacks - they are all TOO crazy.

The lack of progression for Woodie is a good point. However most characters don't really have a tremendous amount of progression, since for the most part progression is tied to basic resource availability not gear thresholds. It would be a good thing to add some mid/late game options to Woodie, since he's usually not worth staying as once the Celestial Orb has dropped (I still stand by that Woodie is probably *the* best character in the first season, especially if playing on a team). Thinking some more about your ideas, here's my new suggestions (including some repeats from earlier comments):

• Lucy restores 5 sanity to Woodie when used to chop down a fully grown tree or Treeguard.
• Lucy's damage is buffed to 55 against Treeguards, Birchnutters, and other leafy-meat mobs (Eyeplants, Carrats, Saladmanders, Grass Geckos, Twiggy Gators).
• Lucy can be upgraded with 6 Moon Glass into Glucy. Glucy takes one fewer chops to chop down a tree but will break after 300 swings (returning Lucy of course). Glucy also has a small chance to immediately spawn a gestalt that then attacks Woodie.
• Woodie starts losing sanity if he hasn't chopped down a tree recently. Starts at -2/min after a day, steadily increasing to -20 after four days.
• Beaver & Moose can swim at approximately the same speed as using a regular oar. The were metre declines 50% slower while swimming, and a bonus 20 second grace period is added if Woodie ends up in the water with less than 15 were.
• Double the length of time before the Beaver's were metre starts quick declining after chewing.
• Beaver pulls out the stump automatically when chewing undergrown trees.
• Beaver deal 48 damage to Leafy Meat mobs and 55 to Birchnutters (meaning he can kill them in one hit).
• Reduce the Moose's were metre loss from hitting accidental objects while charging to 5, scaling up to 20 the longer he charges. The Moose can now continuously charge in a straight line if the player keeps reactivating the charge every screen (so yes, the Moose could charge across the entire map in a straight line).
• Goose form gains a honk that can be used once every 30 seconds. Deaggros everything in a small area and relaxes Moose/Goose & Malbatross, causing them to drop one of their feathers when they deaggro (limit of 2 feathers dropped per boss spawn).
• Woodie can eat food in his inventory or on the ground while transformed. Eating a Kitchy Idol will retransform, suffering a reduced health & sanity penalty than normal as well as restoring some were metre. If Woodie eats the same Idol as the one in which he is currently transformed, there is only a sanity penalty and some were metre is restored. Woodie cannot craft or cook while transformed, meaning he has to rely on forage, other players, or what he has already prepared.
• Woodie can wear amulets while transformed, being able to equip them off the ground or from his inventory.
• Woodie gains a Fleshy Amulet which he can craft from a mix of Leafy, Monster, and Fishy Meat (1 of each, plus a piece of Charcoal). The Fleshy Amulet has a quick spoilage time (one day) and prevents transforms due to the Full Moon while worn. Anything which accelerates spoilage time (such as Toadstool clouds or being poisoned, not that the later yet exists in DST) will also accelerate the spoilage of the Fleshy Amulet.
• Woodie gains a Feather Amulet which he can craft from Malbatross Feathers & Moose/Goose Down (2 of each, plus a piece of Charcoal). The Feather Amulet quadruples the amount of time Woodie has between doing each of his transforms required actions before his were metre starts quick declining (should be long enough for Woodie to comfortably swim to the Lunar Island or Pearl's Island from the mainland or vice versa without losing were).
• Add the Cratered Amulet, an Amulet which is always visible on the map crafted at the Celestial Tab (2 Moonrocks, 4 Moon Glass, 4 Silk). It must also have a gem placed inside (any colour) to have any effect. The Cratered Amulet can be smashed to return the gem placed inside, with a 100% return chance (meaning there's no risk of using whatever kind of gem). As long as it is socketed, the Cratered Amulet increase movement speed up to 15% while high Enlightenment (scales directly past 50 Enlightenment, meaning you only get the boost if you are also vulnerable to Gestalts) and an additional 15% while carrying Moon Glass statues (the heavy-object penalty still applies). While Woodie is wearing the Cratered Amulet, he cannot transform. The amulet does not have a durability, but will glow when the full moon is active and has a 50% chance to break if unequipped during that period, dealing -25 damage to the player in the process (and returning the gem). Can also glow after the player is hit by a gestalt and can break (low chance) if already glowing when hit.
• Unequipping or breaking either the Fleshy or Cratered Amulet during a full moon will cause Woodie to immediately transform.

[W0l0l0]

6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

but you can get high durability 90% armors 1st autumn so wilson will have more effective hp with less risks

Absolutely, I'm not arguing against that.

Its very clear that Woodie needs some sort of progression. Usually this isn't too much of a problem but Woodie's abilities lock him out of huge amount of the game when in the were forms.

I'm just not sure how to make progression and strength unique without breaking the simplicity of the forms, make them still feel like curses, allow the forms to adapt and most importantly, synergise with other tools the game has to offer.

[Thrul]

After killing deerclops weremoose 0.5 freeze on punch 0.3 on charge and slightly increased damage

 after killing big goose goose can eat from bush or floor and drop 1 egg for every 3 berry or vegetable eaten after killing

big Beaver beaver eats resources whole and poops them all out right before transforming back

in summer he is more overheating

[Riddla]

23 hours ago, JaxckLl said:

Double the length of time before the Beaver's were metre starts quick declining after chewing.

That actually sounds like a pretty nice solution to Weremeter drain - if you do your job, it slows down properly, and if it's involuntary transformation from moon/monster meat, you let it drain fast by doing nothing. Right now I am not a big fan of its overall fast drain when actually trying to use the wereforms.

 

22 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

I'm just not sure how to make progression and strength unique without breaking the simplicity of the forms, make them still feel like curses, allow the forms to adapt and most importantly, synergise with other tools the game has to offer.

Another good point as well, it would fit the wereforms a lot to have the ability to adapt, e.g. moose being injured becoming even more stubborn and tenacious. I think as for the curse, it should prooobably depend on Woodie's sanity, letting his grip of control loosen the less it is, and making his creatures far more aggressive and ruthless, in exchange for control and caution (forgot proper word for that lol). That way, a lot of risk is involved to reap the rewards and the peak of his wereform potential, sort of a double-edged sword.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I'd like for woodie to just have 1 totem and be able to switch forms like he does in his short.

Kinda still disappointed from when I was hoping that's how it would work from long ago.