are you satisfied with the current shadow prison?

[Loonytoony]

Im just curious ok?

[YouKnowWho]

2 hours ago, Instant-Noodles said:

 

  Units Attacking Prisoned Target |  Players  |  Bosses  | Other Mobs |   Percent   |
  (Assuming Constant Throughout)  |   (PVP)   |          |            | of Original |
----------------------------------+-----------+----------+------------+-------------+
 0 Units - Shadow Prison Duration |   6 sec   |  12 sec  |   24 sec   |    100%     |
 1 Unit - Shadow Prison Duration  |   4 sec   |   8 sec  |   16 sec   |    66.7%    |
 2 Units - Shadow Prison Duration |  3.6 sec  |  7.2 sec |  14.4 sec  |    60.0%    |
 3 Units - Shadow Prison Duration |  3.3 sec  |  6.5 sec |  13.1 sec  |    54.5%    |
 4+ Units - Shadow Prison Duration|   3 sec   |   6 sec  |   12 sec   |    50.0%    |

* Note: A player and their followers only count as 1 unit attacking (so 1 Maxwell + His Duelists = 1 Unit Attacking

Given that last little caveat at the end I'd say it's fair enough

[Gi-Go]

I like the change with twins being able to reach you, because cage is still viable that way, you just gotta dodge a bit. Plus the action routine is more satisfying imo since it just makes sence to reuse cage heal sanity and summon minions during dash spree, and doing damage other time. 

I dislike the same change for celestial champion. His attack is easy to dodge and just wastes time, so it's nice to deal damage during it. And also, this attacks ends when he lands hit on player even in bone armor, and that's how I usually skip it. It was a pointless nerf. 

I strongly dislike cage timer thing. Cage was already useful only in twins and bee queen (and no walls dragonfly), and a tiny bit helpful on celestial. Nothing changed aside from the fact that twins are now better off killed the normal way than with spells. Yet another strategy gone. 

[Cheggf]

I think it's still a bit strong.

[ShadowDuelist]

The opinion is quite divided on this one

 

I’ve also noticed that “nah” can actually go both ways: people that are not satisfied because they want the cage buffed and people that are not satisfied because they want the cage nerfed even further. 

I tried the cage more and I have no strong opinion ATM, I think I’ll stop playing until they finish touching the cage, before trying to figure again what strategies to use the cage for.

[Arcwell]

Initially I hated the idea of shadow prison duration being tied to duelists attacking, but after playing around with it for a bit, I'd say the current shadow prison is fine.

Most situations don't require you to perma-lock an enemy, in which case 8 seconds is more than enough time to restock on duelists and continue the fight.

For the situations where you do want to perma-lock a boss (i.e. phase 2 Dragonfly,  phase 1-2 Bee Queen), it's still viable, it's just a lot more micromanagement. I will say though that the micromanagement becomes too much against the Twins and Fuelweaver in particular.

[Nexplose]

I don't believe these guys keep nerfing and nerfing him this way. Shadow duelists are a joke compared to other followers, now they nerfed pillars. I can't believe how they are capable of DESTROYING something many of us was waiting all these years: a decent, fun playable Maxwell relied on good Shadow Duelists and good skills, not nerfed at the point it can't cage a BOSS for the time you need to. Too much micro-management. I can't understand why Klei is destroying this rework like this.

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Nexplose said:

compared to other followers

name 1

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Nexplose said:

I don't believe these guys keep nerfing and nerfing him this way. Shadow duelists are a joke compared to other followers, now they nerfed pillars. I can't believe how they are capable of DESTROYING something many of us was waiting all these years: a decent, fun playable Maxwell relied on good Shadow Duelists and good skills, not nerfed at the point it can't cage a BOSS for the time you need to. Too much micro-management. I can't understand why Klei is destroying this rework like this.

 

This rework could easily make Maxwell a fun character that relies on good skills. All they need to do is nerf the cage a bit more and give him some real downsides, particularly for overusing his power. Maybe make the duelists worse at holding aggro, too, since as you say Maxwell should rely on skill.

[Pig Princess]

15 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Maybe make the duelists worse at holding aggro

They are already not great in it, target that they attack switches aggro to Maxwell: seems like it happens every time they phase out, and it doesn't matter if they received hit or performed dash attack.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Pig Princess said:

They are already not great in it, target that they attack switches aggro to Maxwell: seems like it happens every time they phase out, and it doesn't matter if they received hit or performed dash attack.

If you only summon a single Duelist that's true. If you summon multiple then they're great at holding aggro and even if you're also whacking the target they'll take many hits for you.

[Pig Princess]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If you only summon a single Duelist that's true. If you summon multiple then they're great at holding aggro and even if you're also whacking the target they'll take many hits for you.

Unless target has AoE or duelists managed to synchronize their dash attacks