Jump to content

Current Maxwell Needs to be Changed or Nerfed


LDee

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, LDee said:

how many do you need?

that deppends, Bee queen, Dragonfly( pan flute if enrage) 30

fuel weaver i never killed him not helping them (30)
deerclops 30 can kill him
i never kill bearger
20 or less can kill moose/goose

CCphase 1 30
CC phase 2 counters them
CC phase 3 never used them but probably 50

 

30 can subdue twins or 50 i dont remember 

 

i dont recommend any followers against klaus

crab king i just use bee's, easier and dont need any manitence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, edulopes said:

that deppends, Bee queen, Dragonfly( pan flute if enrage) 30

So you can beat Bee Queen with 30 merms without little input from Wurt?

How many if you don't have the panflute and walls?

How long does it take you to build the 30 houses from day 0?

Does this apply to all raid bosses or just Bee Queen/Dragonfly?

Honest questions, because I don't play Wurt that much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for toadstoll i bring 50 just as "cannon fodder" they are good help chopping and damage wise

1 minute ago, LDee said:

How many if you don't have the panflute and walls?

if DF enrages, is normally game over, so as soon as possible i put her to sleep,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, edulopes said:

for toadstoll i bring 50 just as "cannon fodder" they are good help chopping and damage wise

if DF enrages, is normally game over, so as soon as possible i put her to sleep,

Seems like you can beat Bee Queen, Twins, Deerclopse, Moose/Goose without having to have much knowledge and not having to engage much in the fight. Does that sound correct?

How long from day 1 does it take you to build enough houses to beat raid bosses?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LDee said:

How long does it take you to build the 30 houses from day 0?

deppends on your commitment, because you WILL need to get all merm king stuff that takes some time( with 20 Kelp Fronds, 10 Pig Skins and 15 Beefalo Wools.), i start from making 5 houses (requires 4 Boards, 3 Cut Reeds, and 2 Freshwater Fishes ) normally takes 3/4 days

if lucky with the DIY kit he will be day 8, 12 to 14 if not, then you have to rush ASAP log farm, kill some tree guards if you is able to spawn then via chopping trees using them ( you will need loots of logs to build merm flortfications (5 Boards, 1 Tentacle Spots, and 2 Spears) 2 days after winter i will change to birchnut to evide tree guards because merms dont respawn in winter, so to be functional is more than 30 days because of winter but by day 30 ( killing tentacles, fishing as much you can farming wood, you can probably bring up to 15~~25 but by the end of winter you can farm fish everyday using loyal merms
fish have an chance to give tentacle spots so, after the first winter is only snowball , but untill then is just RNG an luck based
 

5 minutes ago, LDee said:

How long from day 1 does it take you to build enough houses to beat raid bosses?

by mid spring should be more than enough easly to kill all of the overwolrd bosses

6 minutes ago, LDee said:

engage much in the fight

or not engaging at all

BFDD06A594E45E052DEB648EF16CE7A4D89CDFE4

33 houses consistent killing power, BQ and DF, i always start by the bee then go straigth to DF ( one side not if you are using merm mask you will need do construc normal merms, to being able to contract them via the normal ones)

20 minutes ago, edulopes said:

deerclops 30 can kill him

i know this because i used them after killing bee queen

merms are the best thing( just wall them if you arent consistently playing wurt if merm king dies they will go weak, and hostile

once you got 15 in you can make them kill themselves every day  in 4 minutes no matter the season.( this is wiki but i think it is wrong) from my usage they respawn in 1 day besides winter, if you do them in caves they respawn every day
and Unlike regular Merms however, Loyal Merm Guards are immune to epic screeching, such as the screeching done by the Bee Queen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, edulopes said:

deppends on your commitment, because you WILL need to get all merm king stuff that takes some time( with 20 Kelp Fronds, 10 Pig Skins and 15 Beefalo Wools.), i start from making 5 houses (requires 4 Boards, 3 Cut Reeds, and 2 Freshwater Fishes ) normally takes 3/4 days

if lucky with the DIY kit he will be day 8, 12 to 14 if not, then you have to rush ASAP log farm, kill some tree guards if you is able to spawn then via chopping trees using them ( you will need loots of logs to build merm flortfications (5 Boards, 1 Tentacle Spots, and 2 Spears) 2 days after winter i will change to birchnut to evide tree guards because merms dont respawn in winter, so to be functional is more than 30 days because of winter but by day 30 ( killing tentacles, fishing as much you can farming wood, you can probably bring up to 15~~25 but by the end of winter you can farm fish everyday using loyal merms
fish have an chance to give tentacle spots so, after the first winter is only snowball , but untill then is just RNG an luck based
 

by mid spring should be more than enough easly to kill all of the overwolrd bosses

or not engaging at all

 I'd say they are better than Webber, but in my opinion it's at least balanced by the fact that it's resource (and time) intense to slowly build your army to that level.  Contrast that to Maxwell who, as soon as he spawns into the game, can summon armies of duelists and a move that shuts down bosses.  Plus, if you do mess up and get all your merms killed, you basically have to start the fight all over. Maxwell can just summon his duelists back like nothing happened.

Then there's the fact that it really only works on two raid bosses (panflute to stop dragonfly enraging isn't something you know right off the bat).  And even against those two I'm assuming, and correct me if i'm wrong, even if you're not attacking, you still have to dodge Bee Queen, grumble bees and the twins because they all still target you?

So even for Wurt, which I'd say is better than Webber when fighting raid bosses based on what you're telling me, it's not really comparable because you still have to contend with the bosses moves and it's super resource/time intense.  

Maxwell on the otherhand can have have a dark sword, night armor and his hat before day 6 and can get all the nightmare fuel needed for pretty much all the fights with 1-2 minutes of grinding.  And he doesn't need to know how to dodge the twins, bee queen or her grumbles since he can just constantly shut them down.

 

This is why one of the suggestions for balancing Maxwell is to require more resources for him to use his abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LDee said:

armies of duelists and a move that shuts down bosses.

need some imput by using adaquate damage, you need to atk to gain atk speed, and need to at least reach shadow manipulator gear.

 

2 minutes ago, LDee said:

Plus, if you do mess up and get all your merms killed,

only in DF figth but true

2 minutes ago, LDee said:

you even if you're not attacking, you still have to dodge Bee Queen, grumble bees and the twins because they all still target you?

deppends, bee queen focuses on merms, some grumble bees go after the "rage phase" but always some merms go out to help and (i saw in a video but never pulled off you can use berry bush as wurt)
the twins focus on merms, but some of the spawns go after you

 

5 minutes ago, LDee said:

So even for Wurt, which I'd say is better than Webber when fighting raid bosses based on what you're telling me, it's not really comparable because you still have to contend with the bosses moves and it's super resource/time intense.  

hmm i would say in every way, because merms are fast, can chop trees mine ores, and can help with lots of damage and same tankyness as maxwell shadows or mre

 

6 minutes ago, LDee said:

Maxwell on the otherhand can have have a dark swork shadow, night armor and his hat easily before day 6 and can get all the nightmare fuel needed for pretty much all the fights with 1-2 minutes of grinding.  And he doesn't need to know how to dodge the twins, bee queen or her grumbles since he can just constantly shut them down.

well for the twins yes you destroy them, and for BQ at least she figths a back, same as wall cheese, or pan flute wanda spam

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, LDee said:

for investing time and effort in the form of grinding

You have to understand that not everyone has time for grind, you know, usually people have a job that consumes most of the time and do not spend the whole day in front of the pc playing. Your opinion is just your opinion, you called me dishonest so I will not argue with you anymore, it is not worth it. I realized that you only care about yourself, you do not care about balancing after all, just bad excuses because your Webber is """ïnferior""" in combat now, sorry.
This conversation is going off topic. Have a good game, and have fun the way you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for me the problem is not that maxwell is too strong, webber spiders that are in an strange spot, because you know damage that mobs takes from another ones are higher, so nurse spiders have to figth a LOT more to heal them

looking at wurt she is an high only one time investment for your life, maxwell is an cheaper investment that you need to pay everytime to use, comparing them in a 1 k + world merms would be MUCH more cheaper in the grand scheme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SullyD said:

You have to understand that not everyone has time for grind, you know, usually people have a job that consumes most of the time and do not spend the whole day in front of the pc playing. Your opinion is just your opinion, you called me dishonest so I will not argue with you anymore, it is not worth it. I realized that you only care about yourself, you do not care about balancing after all, just bad excuses because your Webber is """ïnferior""" in combat now, sorry.
This conversation is going off topic. Have a good game, and have fun the way you want.

There's so much projecting going on here. 

I think it's clear that you are just concerned that someone is providing very valid reasons for why your Maxwell should be balanced.  Evidence for this is the fact that you'd go so far as to say that Wilson being able to one-shot raid bosses would be a well balanced character.

3 minutes ago, edulopes said:

for me the problem is not that maxwell is too strong, webber spiders that are in an strange spot, because you know damage that mobs takes from another ones are higher, so nurse spiders have to figth a LOT more to heal them

looking at wurt she is an high only one time investment for your life, maxwell is an cheaper investment that you need to pay everytime to use, comparing them in a 1 k + world merms would be MUCH more cheaper in the grand scheme

Yeah and there are other characters like Winona that shine as time goes on, but that's a major downside: time and resources.

Maxwell is even more effective than Wurt (can beat 5 raid bosses with minimal resources and knowledge), doesn't have to know how they work, and doesn't require the time/resources required to build up.

Nightmare fuel is just way too easy to get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, edulopes said:

looking at wurt she is an high only one time investment for your life, maxwell is an cheaper investment that you need to pay everytime to use, comparing them in a 1 k + world merms would be MUCH more cheaper in the grand scheme

So the food she feeds to both the king and the merms doesn't exist?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LDee said:

There's so much projecting going on here. 

I think it's clear that you are just concerned that someone is providing very valid reasons for why your Maxwell should be balanced.  Evidence for this is the fact that you'd go so far as to say that Wilson being able to one-shot raid bosses would be a well balanced character.

Yeah and there are other characters like Winona that shine as time goes on, but that's a major downside: time and resources.

Maxwell is even more effective than Wurt (can beat 5 raid bosses with minimal resources and knowledge), doesn't have to know how they work, and doesn't require the time/resources required to build up.

Nightmare fuel is just way too easy to get.

Maxwell has to fight with minions,  what modern update gameplay are you seeing where a maxwell is winning via just minions + prison?

Duelist aggro drawing is random as hell and usually bosses and mobs still aim straight for him so in this scenario when is he having time to cast prison/spam more duelists?

Where are these videos of players with no boss knowledge stomping bosses as you claim? 

Also somehow you're misunderstanding SullyD's point is that if Klei decided to add one punch insta kill powers to wilson then clearly that's what they think players should have.

DST is not some balanced masterpiece of a game and it most likely never will be because the devs seem to care more about what the average player or they personally find fun.

The average player doesn't give a damn about metagaming or min maxing, hell the average player in dst hardly kills most bosses at all shockingly enough. Look at all the feedback of the players bewildered at the concept of being told to kill fuelweaver to optionally power up.

You are completely out of touch with the average player and will be confounded as the game continues to go forward because the game is not made around you or for you specfically.

Count your blessings that you're able to have fun with this game despite that and stop acting so arrogant like every dst player inherently demands a perfectly balanced game.

If Klei made wilson 1 shot bosses I'd laugh my ass off forever though since that'd be funny as hell and you'd have to have no funny bone in your body to not have the idea thrown at you and laugh it off

Maxwell isn't even remotely OP (he'd be barely top 3 or 4 in dps if everything is going his way and every duelist lands every hit with fuelweaver gear) and if you find his playstyle boring great he's not for you, move on instead of demanding Maxwell play exactly how only you seem to want him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, LDee said:

There's so much projecting going on here. 

I think it's clear that you are just concerned that someone is providing very valid reasons for why your Maxwell should be balanced.  Evidence for this is the fact that you'd go so far as to say that Wilson being able to one-shot raid bosses would be a well balanced character.

Yeah and there are other characters like Winona that shine as time goes on, but that's a major downside: time and resources.

Maxwell is even more effective than Wurt (can beat 5 raid bosses with minimal resources and knowledge), doesn't have to know how they work, and doesn't require the time/resources required to build up.

Nightmare fuel is just way too easy to get.

Maxwell has 75hp, hes very strong for EXPERIENCED PLAYERS but has a massive disadvantage for casual or non experienced players. He does have downsides.

Juggling duelists with casting prison with sanity healing with attacking a boss yourself with healing if you get hurt with casting prison again, oh wait now 3 of your duelists are gone, lets recast them but only if the boss has been imprisoned but **** i forgot to heal sanity before i cast prison and a terror beak is attacking me too.... lots of juggling, it can be abit tedious and almost not worth the effort tbh. Why not just kite as normal if you got the skill?

You have to do this everytime you fight a boss until you get bone armour... and bone armour makes every character op so that doesnt matter.

Wurt is more grindy but once her merm guards are up she has far less in-fight juggling to do. Plus wurt has chunky hp with merm king. She is very safe for killing bosses if you are bad at the game unlike maxwell where u need to be already good at the game (good at juggling different mechanics) to benefit from duelists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So the food she feeds to both the king and the merms doesn't exist?

IS easy enough to let merm king die, and feed him in time that your Will figth

I already told How to fix issue 5 normal.merm house, pen out ALL merms when you are not playing wurt and done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Joey9Baka said:

If Klei made wilson 1 shot bosses I'd laugh my ass off forever though since that'd be funny as hell and you'd have to have no funny bone in your body to not have the idea thrown at you and laugh it off

Like I told SullyD, if you believe that Wilson being able to one-shot any enemy in the game = a well balanced character, then your opinion regarding character balance shouldn't be taken seriously. 

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Maxwell has 75hp, hes very strong for EXPERIENCED PLAYERS but has a massive disadvantage for casual or non experienced players. He does have downsides.

Juggling duelists with casting prison with sanity healing with attacking a boss yourself with healing if you get hurt with casting prison again, oh wait now 3 of your duelists are gone, lets recast them but only if the boss has been imprisoned but **** i forgot to heal sanity before i cast prison and a terror beak is attacking me too.... lots of juggling, it can be abit tedious and almost not worth the effort tbh. Why not just kite as normal if you got the skill?

You have to do this everytime you fight a boss until you get bone armour... and bone armour makes every character op so that doesnt matter.

Wurt is more grindy but once her merm guards are up she has far less in-fight juggling to do. Plus wurt has chunky hp with merm king. She is very safe for killing bosses if you are bad at the game unlike maxwell where u need to be already good at the game (good at juggling different mechanics) to benefit from duelists.

1. This is not remotely true. You don't have to be an EXPERIENCED PLAYER to learn about armor and healing. Once the player learns about football helmets, log suits and healing foods, his disadvantage becomes almost non-existent.  Plus, his advantages such as being able to trap raid bosses and duelists that can withstand 4 hits from bosses are not balanced around new players. Those are abilities balanced around fighting the hardest challenges in the game.  Take away the ability to trap bosses or the durability gimmick of his duelists and new players won't feel a difference. Would you be okay with that?

2. It's not even remotely as hard as you are making it out to be and if you are new to the spam, you just summon less duelists which still gives you a win. But even if it required some practice, that's not my point because...

3.  The point is that it's the same strategy using limited resources that works on 5 raid bosses that does not require you to engage with the bosses or even know what they can do.

4. Yes, an experienced Wurt has to grind for more than half a year in order to take on 2-3 raid bosses and they will still have to actually know what the raid bosses do because they'll have to dodge the raid bosses attacks or assist their merms. Maxwell can take on 5 without knowing anything about the raid bosses, without engaging in the fight against them and within the first 6 days of Autumn. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, edulopes said:

IS easy enough to let merm king die, and feed him in time that your Will figth

I already told How to fix issue 5 normal.merm house, pen out ALL merms when you are not playing wurt and done

But at the end of the day you have to consistently pay to use Wurt's abilities just like Maxwell's and his followers are just plain cheaper to use and more convenient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But at the end of the day you have to consistently pay to use Wurt's abilities just like Maxwell's and his followers are just plain cheaper to use and more convenient.

This is the only thing I don't like about the current state of the refresh: how cheap it is to swarm single enemies. The duelists HP, damage scalability and attack speed are pretty good, but you shouldn't be able to spawn 5 duelists per nightmare fuel.

I mean, there is nothing wrong with beating bosses spamming duelists and pillars, that's up to the player if they want to, but doing this from early game or summoning only 4-5 duelists to avoid the insanity downside is too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/14/2022 at 12:05 AM, Mysterious box said:

 

You know a common theme you'll find when people try to defend their character in every rework is "you've probably never even played X character" "I know better than you" and "you probably barely tested my character" and guess what they were bad arguments then and they're still bad arguments now it's just a poor excuse used to try to invalidate others opinions without reason.

 

Every character has a reason to be nerfed, not only limited to maxwell, but the key is to take care of the feelings of people who really play those characters

If you do not support what these people say, then the forum is full of nerf talk, they are the people who really play these characters. If the maxwell update fails, I won't be playing any more of klei's games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Jorsef said:

Every character has a reason to be nerfed, not only limited to maxwell, but the key is to take care of the feelings of people who really play those characters

If you do not support what these people say, then the forum is full of nerf talk, they are the people who really play these characters. If the maxwell update fails, I won't be playing any more of klei's games.

If you really played Maxwell you would have loved the rework even if it didn't add Shadow snare and Shadow prison at all, since it's huge buffs all around and makes him much more fun to play. There's no chance anyone who thinks he's unplayable because a brainless overpowered spell (which he didn't even have before) became like 5% worse actually plays Maxwell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Jorsef said:

Every character has a reason to be nerfed, not only limited to maxwell, but the key is to take care of the feelings of people who really play those characters

If you do not support what these people say, then the forum is full of nerf talk, they are the people who really play these characters. If the maxwell update fails, I won't be playing any more of klei's games.

Who really plays Maxwell is 3-4 people I saw here, the rest is just people complaining and asking for nerf, Klei does not care about who really plays, had so many and so many suggestions, but they only applied the suggestions of nerf.

You can play, yes, you can still have fun... yes, but these updates added too much stuff and made it complex, for newbs not even think about playing, they will die easily.

This beta is a disappointment, I still think it is very...empty, for me it is the worst rework they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, SullyD said:

Who really plays Maxwell is 3-4 people I saw here, the rest is just people complaining and asking for nerf, Klei does not care about who really plays, had so many and so many suggestions, but they only applied the suggestions of nerf.

That's not true. Shadow dash from forge was added to duelists like some guy suggested. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
  • Create New...