Current Maxwell Needs to be Changed or Nerfed

[Frosty_Mentos]

12 hours ago, LDee said:

Oh well that's something that Klei should definitely change as it does break the fight just like they should have changed the mechanic where Fuel Weaver could get stunlocked by Wanda or she could hit Klaus across the loot stash.

If they wanted to change it would have happened forever ago. None of the changes were done while some buffs towards bosses were added. They simply made dragonfly to start attacking minions or you if she gets get pathing disabled as a balance cause the boss didn't do anything otherwise.

Also Wilson doesn't fit to be used as a comparison because DS and DST are rather different games when it comes to characters and how environment is balanced around the new added skills. While his lack of perks exists to see how balance is around basic stat character, but there's now characters like Winona or anyone else who doesn't use their abilities. Klei giving tools to deal with bosses and monsters that serve a sort of resource farm purpose for older player and ways to have easier time for newbies is a good way to go in this game imo.

Maxwell's health is prolly most rough thing to figure out and be aware of for a non average player, since without armor he's basically onetapped and with any of it he still is at risk of death. For those whom are careful he'll be one of the most powerful characters the game has. In that case we should think more what other characters with the lack of or has most weakest/outdated perks should have. Cough cough Willow Woodie and maybe Winona needs another structure like vacuum item picker or something.

[LDee]

9 minutes ago, SullyD said:

Just like any other character

Have you read the patches notes?

Yes, every other character has to engage with bosses except Maxwell.

Thursdays?

 

 

3 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Wolf can face tank with no penalties, more than Maxwell and Wanda, Wolf rows faster, carry big fruts and veggies and statues faster, chops sometimes fasters, his Max damage dont have any dificult to use(same as wanda) or impractical(same as Maxwell)( because Max have to lose time to sunmon, have to waste more resources to have an specific gear, and have to participate to  have hus Max damage, but the shadows can sometimes aggro the Boss on you, and adding the long casts you Will probabily get hit, not couting New players Will suffer to get the gear 

Face tanking is part of being a combat oriented class and even then, you can't face-tank raid bosses without massive resource penalties.  Shadow Prison lets you lock bosses away while you summon... Not really talking about people who just installed the game,

[edulopes]

20 minutes ago, LDee said:

, he can't just sit back and let his minions destroy raid bosses

Maxwell have an hard time on KLAUS, Wanda can destroy him

 If you are using Max, is more worth to kill krab king with bees

Bee Queen is cheaper with catapults, cheaper and easier with loyal merms( once paid the inicial costa they Will kill her forever for a Mere Prince of one kelp,and merm mask or using wurt

Wall off lava pools and Wanda is better for DF

Wendy is better for fuel/ Wanda too being insane against him is a problem and Max cant have his máximum potencial until kill him

CC Passe one and two Maxwell for me is the best

CC passe 3 Wanda can totally cheese/ destroy him

BEARGER Just use him to Farm trees and tree guarda Will get him

Moose/fosse and DEERCLOPS  and eye are the easiest bosses of the game you can do It even face tanking 

The twins, again an Boss that Maxwell excells, but you can pan flute them and figth only one as your caracter of choice

A missplance on KLAUS Can make you reset the figth, i made this mistake yestersay they killed the deers, i simply used Wanda to kill him in less than 2 minutes

[LDee]

30 minutes ago, SullyD said:

 

Because from what I can see, and many people have already noticed, Maxwell has no right to have any ability that is better than another character.

 

Yes, Wilson is the main protagonist and I would have fun with that.

Oh, be honest you are not here because of balancing, I don't want to take away the merit of your post ok, but the comparisons you make are not fair.

If you truly think that Wilson being able to one-shot every enemy in the game is an example of good character balance, then I think it's safe to say no one should take your opinion seriously.

[edulopes]

9 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Maxwell have an ... 

I am on my cellphone Sorry for any auto corrections

And on the above i wasnt even counting spiced + eléctric wanda

You can even kill fuel descer using only one houndious shootious

Can kill Klaus by trapping his deers in signs

The Shadow walls are Just an "legal" method of existênce methods that besides costing materials they cost fuel 

[LDee]

4 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Maxwell have an hard time on KLAUS, Wanda can destroy him

 If you are using Max, is more worth to kill krab king with bees

Bee Queen is cheaper with catapults, cheaper and easier with loyal merms( once paid the inicial costa they Will kill her forever for a Mere Prince of one kelp,and merm mask or using wurt

Wall off lava pools and Wanda is better for DF

Wendy is better for fuel/ Wanda too being insane against him is a problem and Max cant have his máximum potencial until kill him

CC Passe one and two Maxwell for me is the best

CC passe 3 Wanda can totally cheese/ destroy him

BEARGER Just use him to Farm trees and tree guarda Will get him

Moose/fosse and DEERCLOPS  and eye are the easiest bosses of the game you can do It even face tanking 

The twins, again an Boss that Maxwell excells, but you can pan flute them and fight only one as your caracter of choice

A missplance on KLAUS Can make you reset the figth, i made this mistake yestersay they killed the deers, i simply used Wanda to kill him in less than 2 minutes

I don't think you understand my argument.

[edulopes]

2 minutes ago, LDee said:

I don't think you understand my argument.

Well in My eyes Maxwell have to figth to waste less resources and figth optimally, 

In the end " a grand grind can and Will kill any Boss" 

12 minutes ago, LDee said:

Face tanking is part of being a combat oriented class and even then, you can't face-tank raid bosses without massive resource penalties

Not figthing is waste of fuel, and time

Time that hounds can intenvere on the figth, or even other aspects even missplays

[LDee]

Just now, edulopes said:

Well in My eyes Maxwell have to figth to waste less resources and figth optimally, 

In the end " a grand grind can and Will kill any Boss" 

Not figthing is waste of fuel, and time

Time that hounds can intenvere on the figth, or even other aspects even missplays

Okay take a look at your previous post which highlights a bunch of different strategies and ways for fighting raid bosses.

20 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Maxwell have an hard time on KLAUS, Wanda can destroy him

 If you are using Max, is more worth to kill krab king with bees

Bee Queen is cheaper with catapults, cheaper and easier with loyal merms( once paid the inicial costa they Will kill her forever for a Mere Prince of one kelp,and merm mask or using wurt

Wall off lava pools and Wanda is better for DF

Wendy is better for fuel/ Wanda too being insane against him is a problem and Max cant have his máximum potencial until kill him

CC Passe one and two Maxwell for me is the best

CC passe 3 Wanda can totally cheese/ destroy him

BEARGER Just use him to Farm trees and tree guarda Will get him

Moose/fosse and DEERCLOPS  and eye are the easiest bosses of the game you can do It even face tanking 

The twins, again an Boss that Maxwell excells, but you can pan flute them and figth only one as your caracter of choice

A missplance on KLAUS Can make you reset the figth, i made this mistake yestersay they killed the deers, i simply used Wanda to kill him in less than 2 minutes

Now take a look at how Maxwell deals with those raid bosses:

- Moose/Goose: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Bearger: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Deerclopse: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Dragonfly: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Bee Queen: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Twins of Terror: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Celestial Champion: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Klaus: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

 

Being able to beat 5 raid bosses (plus 3 normal bosses) with a single resource-cheap strategy that doesn't require you to actually engage in the fight is why Maxwell needs to be changed.  

 

Now which of the strategies from your list is capable of beating multiple raid bosses without being resource intense and without the player needing to engage in the fight?

40 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

If they wanted to change it would have happened forever ago. None of the changes were done while some buffs towards bosses were added. They simply made dragonfly to start attacking minions or you if she gets get pathing disabled as a balance cause the boss didn't do anything otherwise.

Also Wilson doesn't fit to be used as a comparison because DS and DST are rather different games when it comes to characters and how environment is balanced around the new added skills. While his lack of perks exists to see how balance is around basic stat character, but there's now characters like Winona or anyone else who doesn't use their abilities. Klei giving tools to deal with bosses and monsters that serve a sort of resource farm purpose for older player and ways to have easier time for newbies is a good way to go in this game imo.

Maxwell's health is prolly most rough thing to figure out and be aware of for a non average player, since without armor he's basically onetapped and with any of it he still is at risk of death. For those whom are careful he'll be one of the most powerful characters the game has. In that case we should think more what other characters with the lack of or has most weakest/outdated perks should have. Cough cough Willow Woodie and maybe Winona needs another structure like vacuum item picker or something.

I'm not saying whether Klei will change it. I'm saying whether, in my opinion, Klei should change it.  Being able to just stand there and smack CC while it tries to hit you over and over again with an attack that you simply can't be hit by is on the level of being able to stunlock Fuel Weaver indefinitely or beat Klaus by standing behind the loot stash.

Not sure what you're referring to when talking about Wilson.

Not talking Maxwell in the hands of new players, talking about Maxwell in the hands of average to above average players who I believe are the ones that play DST long-term.

4 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Now there's a guy who barely tested Maxwell but is ready to explain us how OP he is. Was wondering when he gonna show up. 

This is what people say when they disagree with the conclusion of an argument, but lack the ability to explain why.

[SullyD]

11 minutes ago, LDee said:

Okay take a look at your previous post which highlights a bunch of different strategies and ways for fighting raid bosses.

Now take a look at how Maxwell deals with those raid bosses:

- Moose/Goose: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Bearger: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Deerclopse: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Dragonfly: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Bee Queen: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Twins of Terror: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Celestial Champion: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

- Klaus: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

 

Being able to beat 5 raid bosses (plus 3 normal bosses) with a single resource-cheap strategy that doesn't require you to actually engage in the fight is why Maxwell needs to be changed.  

 

Now which of the strategies from your list is capable of beating multiple raid bosses without being resource intense and without the player needing to engage in the fight?

I'm not saying whether Klei will change it. I'm saying whether, in my opinion, Klei should change it.  Being able to just stand there and smack CC while it tries to hit you over and over again with an attack that you simply can't be hit by is on the level of being able to stunlock Fuel Weaver indefinitely or beat Klaus by standing behind the loot stash.

Not sure what you're referring to when talking about Wilson.

Not talking Maxwell in the hands of new players, talking about Maxwell in the hands of average to above average players who I believe are the ones that play DST long-term.

Again, why don't you use this to your advantage and have fun? Now if you don't like this kind of gameplay just don't play, it won't change much because you probably wouldn't play Maxwell anyway. You don't need to like every character in the game, so leave it to those who do.

[LDee]

3 minutes ago, SullyD said:

Again, why don't you use this to your advantage and have fun? Now if you don't like this kind of gameplay just don't play, it won't change much because you probably wouldn't play Maxwell anyway. You don't need to like every character in the game, so leave it to those who do.

Like I said, if you think that Wilson being able to one-shot every enemy in the game is an example of character balance, then no one should take your opinion seriously.

If you can admit that it's not a good example of character balance, I'd be happy to discuss with you why I think Maxwell is unbalanced and therefore should be changed. Until then, we're operating from completely different starting points.

[SullyD]

10 minutes ago, LDee said:

Like I said, if you think that Wilson being able to one-shot every enemy in the game is an example of character balance, then no one should take your opinion seriously.

If you can admit that it's not a good example of character balance, I'd be happy to discuss with you why I think Maxwell is unbalanced and therefore should be changed. Until then, we're operating from completely different starting points.

 

 

Yes, I already read your opinion about why Webber needs to be stronger than Maxwell.

I am just telling you to have fun and enjoy the rework if you want, that's all...

[Gi-Go]

27 minutes ago, LDee said:

This is what people say when they disagree with the conclusion of an argument, but lack the ability to explain why.

If Maxwell is OP then where is your boss rush video? 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, edulopes said:

One thing i ask why nerf Maxwell If Wanda wicker and Wolf are still in an absolute advantage and stronger than him?  You know If you wanna knock and tower down why take from the middle?

 

 

 

 

See that's the interesting thing they don't unless your purely looking at damage output and nothing else.

[LDee]

9 minutes ago, SullyD said:

 

 

Yes, I already read your opinion about why Webber needs to be stronger than Maxwell.

I am just telling you to have fun and enjoy the rework if you want, that's all...

I never stated or even remotely implied that Webber needs to be stronger than Maxwell. The fact that you interpreted my post that way is very telling.

Not as if anyone needed anymore proof given that your opinion is that Wilson being able to one-shot every enemy = a well balanced character.

10 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

If Maxwell is OP then where is your boss rush video? 

If my arguments are bad, then why don't you simply address them?

1 hour ago, edulopes said:

https://youtu.be/tKM5ool28cc

28 min marker

Spiders destroy crab king

Not that  think Webber isnt ballanced, o think he is ballanced, i Just hate spiders, but there is vídeo proof

If you know how to use ALL your game knolwage you can and Will destroy any Boss even with wes

And in the end the better way to kill bosses ia Always the fastest, less figth Mean less Room for error

Must have missed this one.

Did you actually watch the video?  To beat bee queen, he had to make a bunch of nurse and spitter switcherdoodles, 40 monster meat, and 10 bee keeper hats.

Again, you don't seem to understand my argument. My argument isn't that Maxwell can destroy bosses. My argument is that Maxwell can destroy almost every boss with a single, spammable strategy that requires minimal game knowledge and doesn't require the player to even engage in the fight.

[Gashzer]

4 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Just buff the other lackluster characters until everyone is equal in their own regards.

Yeah i agree with cloakingsumo 10000% here.

No joke, overpowered characters are fun. Lets just buff all the rest until each has their own overpowered mechanic!

[Mr_Vol]

2 hours ago, LDee said:

I never stated or even remotely implied that Webber needs to be stronger than Maxwell. The fact that you interpreted my post that way is very telling.

Not as if anyone needed anymore proof given that your opinion is that Wilson being able to one-shot every enemy = a well balanced character.

If my arguments are bad, then why don't you simply address them?

Must have missed this one.

Did you actually watch the video?  To beat bee queen, he had to make a bunch of nurse and spitter switcherdoodles, 40 monster meat, and 10 bee keeper hats.

Again, you don't seem to understand my argument. My argument isn't that Maxwell can destroy bosses. My argument is that Maxwell can destroy almost every boss with a single, spammable strategy that requires minimal game knowledge and doesn't require the player to even engage in the fight.

Dude is only telling you if Klei agrees with Willson being able to 1 shot things then he agrees. You don't have to harass someone who is only saying try to have fun in every one of your posts.

[Gi-Go]

2 hours ago, LDee said:

If my arguments are bad, then why don't you simply address them?

You want to argue with everyone?

[LDee]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah i agree with cloakingsumo 10000% here.

No joke, overpowered characters are fun. Lets just buff all the rest until each has their own overpowered mechanic!

Disagree.  What makes games like DST fun is earning your wins by a combination of skill, game knowledge and/or prep, not simply playing as an overpowered character.

 

1 hour ago, Mr_Vol said:

Dude is only telling you if Klei agrees with Willson being able to 1 shot things then he agrees. You don't have to harass someone who is only saying try to have fun in every one of your posts.

So you believe that if Klei gave Wilson the ability to one-shot every enemy in the game, then Wilson would be a balanced character? And responding to points I don't agree with = harassment?  Another person who's opinion should not be taken seriously.

 

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

You want to argue with everyone?

I would like to discuss the topic with people who are willing to actually address the points I've made which is typically how good faith discussions work.  Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be what you're interested in.

[edulopes]

3 hours ago, LDee said:

1-Moose/Goose: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

2- Bearger: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

3- Deerclopse: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

4- Dragonfly: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

5- Bee Queen: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

6- Twins of Terror: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

7- Celestial Champion: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

8- Klaus: spam Shadow Prison and Duelists

1-any caracter, hold F remove weapon Every scream repetir till dead kite or face tank( minimal investiment)

Wall not needed with max

2- kite or Farm wood,(best than use Maxwell)

Wall not needed with max

3-two campfires hold F two armor+ some healing any caracter

Wall not needed with max

4 wall method is the cheasest way, same than walls

Wall needed with max

5-Pan flute is easy enough Wendy does wonders

Wall needed with max

6 7 - Shadow duelists spam and walls

8 i preffer tô not use shadows they does damage to you with the deers attacks dont compensate, and missplace kill your run

In the end i consider an Maxwell that figths toguether because is the best way to figth pricewise in resources

ALL those figths i would not use Maxwell besides 6 7 i would use any caracter, an preferably an Op like Wanda 

In the end ALL caracters are the same in the reguard Maxwell is one of few New type 

[SullyD]

1 hour ago, LDee said:

Disagree.  What makes games like DST fun is earning your wins by a combination of skill, game knowledge and/or prep, not simply playing as an overpowered character.

did you see it? You said exactly what I repeated several times, you choose how you want to have fun, it's not because something is OP that means you have to use it, you play it how you want. What is not fun for you is fun for someone else, so have fun the way you want to have it buddy.

It seems you are not here for game balancing, but for your own interests, am I wrong?

[LDee]

1 hour ago, edulopes said:

1-any caracter, hold F remove weapon Every scream repetir till dead kite or face tank( minimal investiment)

Wall not needed with max

2- kite or Farm wood,(best than use Maxwell)

Wall not needed with max

3-two campfires hold F two armor+ some healing any caracter

Wall not needed with max

4 wall method is the cheasest way, same than walls

Wall needed with max

5-Pan flute is easy enough Wendy does wonders

Wall needed with max

6 7 - Shadow duelists spam and walls

8 i preffer tô not use shadows they does damage to you with the deers attacks dont compensate, and missplace kill your run

In the end i consider an Maxwell that figths toguether because is the best way to figth pricewise in resources

ALL those figths i would not use Maxwell besides 6 7 i would use any caracter, an preferably an Op like Wanda 

In the end ALL caracters are the same in the reguard Maxwell is one of few New type 

I don't think you even understand my argument. 

How about you try to explain what my actual argument is back to me.

[edulopes]

6 hours ago, LDee said:

1-Being able to beat 5 raid bosses (plus 3 normal bosses) with a single resource-cheap strategy that doesn't require you to actually engage in the fight is why Maxwell needs to be changed.  

 

2Now which of the strategies from your list is capable of beating multiple raid bosses without being resource intense and without the player needing to engage in the fight?

1- well it is not resource viable with not figting

2- all of them with merms

in the end wurt can do the same but better
and if maxwell shadows would not be dumb and auto attack loyal merms, it would be even easier
i always use loyal merms to kill all bosses when i want to cheese

[LDee]

1 hour ago, SullyD said:

did you see it? You said exactly what I repeated several times, you choose how you want to have fun, it's not because something is OP that means you have to use it, you play it how you want. What is not fun for you is fun for someone else, so have fun the way you want to have it buddy.

It seems you are not here for game balancing, but for your own interests, am I wrong?

I have my opinion about what makes DST fun. I believe my opinion is what generally makes any game fun: rewarding the player for accumulating knowledge/skill from the game or rewarding them for investing time and effort in the form of grinding.  Because I understand this, I am glad that Klei balances out characters like Webber against the toughest challenges in the game (raid bosses) by giving his spiders all these weaknesses.  It wouldn't be fun or rewarding if Webber could steamroll all the bosses with 20 monster meat.  That is why game balance is so important, it keeps the game being fun.

You are of the opinion that Wilson being able to kill any enemy in a single punch = a well balanced character. This tells me that either 1. You're too dishonest to be in this conversation or 2. You don't care about game balance at all.

 

[edulopes]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

without being resource intense

for me once you get at least 4 merm houses, the snowball effect is real, i spam 50+ merm houses in less than 30 days and once constructed they are on forever, just need to feed or create an new merm king  when figting

[LDee]

11 minutes ago, edulopes said:

1- well it is not resource viable with not figting

2- all of them with merms

in the end wurt can do the same but better
and if maxwell shadows would not be dumb and auto attack loyal merms, it would be even easier
i always use loyal merms to kill all bosses when i want to cheese

Can you beat raid bosses without assisting your fellow merms? If so, about how many do you need?