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Current Maxwell Needs to be Changed or Nerfed


LDee

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5 minutes ago, Digi62BR said:

Well then let's ask Winona for a nerf too after all all characters have access to her catapults after they are ready, just like maxwell has access to books after they are ready, and detail to use catapult you don't lose anything only gems, and maxwell loses more sanity than the wicker.....And remember if there are no catapult limits on the map soon you can melt all the bosses.....

Fair enough but by that logic then Wolfgang and Wanda are fine as well since all characters technically have access to Warly's dishes I'm not against the argument but if we're gonna use that standard it has to go for everything but for whatever reason it never seems to go that way.

 

1 hour ago, edulopes said:

the guy that probably played maxwell for the first time now, never played him on solo or toguether, but oh well

 

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Now there's a guy who barely tested Maxwell but is ready to explain us how OP he is. Was wondering when he gonna show up. 

You know a common theme you'll find when people try to defend their character in every rework is "you've probably never even played X character" "I know better than you" and "you probably barely tested my character" and guess what they were bad arguments then and they're still bad arguments now it's just a poor excuse used to try to invalidate others opinions without reason.

 

1 hour ago, edulopes said:

and for you as we said yesterday, that dosent make any diference, changing caracters is so easy now days that is crazy. maxwell have his clear downside about using them, and in some times is just better for the wicker to have somone else to read when they dont want or arent near

It's part of his perks so it has to be included when talking about his abilities regardless of how we try to explain it away just as Wurt reading Wickerbottoms books is equally part of hers.

I'll once again state I'm not saying he's in need of nerfs but it's nothing but a fact that he's a extremely powerful character.

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1 hour ago, PunkShark said:

So why nerf Maxwell when Wurt can do this?

Because Wurt’s costs and restrictions are astronomical in comparison to maxwell’s. 
new max is completely on a tier of his own. 

The shadow gear mechanic was a much needed change to at least place some semblance of a restriction on the duelists but everything he does is still insanely cheap and easy. 

He spawns with a full codex (4 fuel, 20 spells) and 6 fuel (30 spells),

50 free spells in total out of the gate and free tamoshanter to restore the crumbs of sanity lost.

This is objectively insane and unlike any balance that has come before it. 

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11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'll once again state I'm not saying he's in need of nerfs but it's nothing but a fact that he's a extremely powerful character.

In the right hands with the right equipment yes, Maxwell is powerful but what character isn't at that point?

12 minutes ago, Ohan said:

This is objectively insane and unlike any balance that has come before it. 

I watch alot of new streams and some of them never even get a chance to get NMF.

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Just now, Mr_Vol said:

In the right hands with the right equipment yes, Maxwell is powerful but what character isn't at that point?

He spawns in with his abilities fully active the only thing he's lacking is his duelist's damage modifier and even then they're not useless at their base.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr_Vol said:

I watch alot of new streams and some of them never even get a chance to get NMF.

You don't even need to fight nightmares to gain fuel as Maxwell so you don't need to be skilled to maintain his nightmare fuel count.

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9 minutes ago, Mr_Vol said:

I watch alot of new streams and some of them never even get a chance to get NMF.

Question, why? I did a quick test run as Maxwell to verify my points and it was incredibly easy to recoup lost nightmare fuel by using shadow sneak + rabbits. It's a guaranteed nightmare fuel per rabbit and you would use at most one nightmare fuel to get 5 rabbits. This is also ignoring the nightmare fuel gained from killing nightmare creatures, which even if you could only kill one per insanity is still 1 guaranteed nightmare fuel which would refund five uses of shadow servants/duelists.

Shadow Sneak is the real MVP here so I gotta ask were they just not setting aside the extra time they get from gathering natural resources to catch rabbits with it?

EDIT: Oh also there's the caves which are super nice for nightmare fuel farming if you find the blue/green mushroom forest. It's also very time efficient thanks to how bunched up the mushroom trees are and how many servants you can spawn. There is also the ruins, but I wouldn't consider that too much for nightmare fuel since unless you have a fully tamed beefalo it is a pretty dangerous game to play.

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2 hours ago, PunkShark said:

1. he has to participate as 1 of the 2nd lowest hp characters for full dmg output for his duelists otherwise their dmg degrades.

This is deceptive as he has synergy with the highest damage reduction armor

 

2 hours ago, PunkShark said:

2. His duelists are limited. 

In what way?

 

2 hours ago, PunkShark said:

3. his biggest dmg output is locked behind an endgame boss and expensive gear.

but his mid tier gear keeps his minion's damage at 44 which is only 6 damage less than guards

 

2 hours ago, PunkShark said:

When Wurt who has to do a little bit more work doesn't have any of these problems if you put the work into it. She has endless supply of merms/guards who do 50 dmg each with a king around with better stats than maxwell and can just watch it go down.

She's also forced to build all their homes and keep her king fed to take advantage of this and she needs to do this twice if she wants to take advantage of this in caves not to mention the merm king is a permanent anchor for her which Maxwell doesn't have nor does he have to worry about losing followers when switching shards and if a boss wipes his followers they're instantly able to come back. Wurt puts in far more work than Maxwell to get where she is and even then her followers are far less flexible Maxwell still comes out on top for far less effort.

 

2 hours ago, PunkShark said:

Hell Webber has an easier time to amass spiders and if you know how to get nurses early those things will not die.

in the event they are killed it's far more punishing because of how resource/time consuming rebuilding a army of higher tier spiders is once again Maxwell gets the best of both their worlds while still having more impactful areas of expertise. His followers are disposable and extremely renewable without any fluff. I will say though I do agree that Webber's followers are technically the most durable outside of some boss fights.

11 minutes ago, Mr_Vol said:

I can see them removing the ability to get NMF from Basic rabbit but maybe keep it for the Bunnyman and Monkeys? They are larger Mobs.

There would be no point to this the only ones this change would hurt is casual players so I'd personally be against it.

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10 hours ago, Arthas Durotan said:

You want to stay back and let the puppets do the killing for you? 

That's fine!

 

You want to join the fight and bully monsters?

That's also fine!

(Just make sure to pay your fuel taxes or terrorbeaks will come to collect it)

Balancing is fine but nerfing Maxwell back to the oblivion is not going to happen. He is in the sweet spot right now, tweaking his skills unnecessarily will just ruin the character again.

 

Also, please stop comparing characters. This isn't a competitive pvp mumbojumbo.

 

I love playing Woodie, Wurt, Wortox and Webber very very much and they are all very fun to play.

There are others who love playing Wendy, Wanda, Wilson and even Wes! Because they have fun and not because they are "meta" or "OP"  

Where did I say that Maxwell should be nerfed back to the oblivion?

I'm not talking about PvP.  Unless you believe character balance shouldn't be a thing, then characters should be compared.

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Just have fun guys, just have fun, play with the characters you like and have fun, if a character gets OP play and have fun, that's it, have fun with what you have, if Maxwell can read other characters book have fun with it, if you can make catapult to farm easy have fun, if you can eat a jelly and give 400+ damage, have fun. 
If anyone wants to destroy a character because they don't want it to be stronger than their favorite character, they are harming themselves.

Just have fun...Only those who don't want to have fun don't have it.

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9 hours ago, Thundario Watt said:

I think we should not compare each character because each of them have their own special power that cannot be matched by other character.

If we gonna compare Abigail and Duelist, well:

- Abigail can be summoned for free anytime without need to be recharged, follow Wendy all the time, can whack army of spiders, but cannot deal with bosses. While with Maxwell's Duelist, it is strong versus boss but wrecked by army of spiders, with time limit of 2 minutes instead of permanent follow

- Abigail can deal her maximum damage every night time or buffed with Potion, Maxwell Duelist can only deal maximum 60 damage if Maxwell already beat Ancient Fuelweaver, based from this comparison, it is clear that 60 damage per Duelist is the reward after going far in the game, while Abigail doesn't need much effort to get her to deal 40 dmg

- Abigail has light source when she reached 600 hp, Wendy is almost always safe from Charlie, while Maxwell's Duelist don't. Without armor, Maxwell will get 1 hit-KO from Charlie, while Wendy still can survive 1hit from Charlie.

- Unless you plan on fighting bosses 24/7, being able to be summoned for free anytime is hardly a downside.  Nightmare fuel is extremely easy to obtain and 2 minutes (1/4 of a game day) is more than enough time to deal with any threat. Duelists can still whack armiess of spiders, they just can beat as many as Abigail which is hardly a downside. 

- Abigail's maximum damage is 40 per. For the cost of a single nightmare fuel, Maxwell can summon 5 minions that combined, not only more than double Abigail's max damage, but also have effectively more than 5x her HP.  

- Abigail being a light source isn't even a plus unless you've literally just installed the game.

The only actual downside you've listed is that Duelists can kill lots of spiders, they just can't kill as many as Abigail. In any other situation, Maxwell can summon the equivalent of 5 Abigails with the cost of a single nightmare fuel.  

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3 minutes ago, LDee said:

- Unless you plan on fighting bosses 24/7, being able to be summoned for free anytime is hardly a downside.  Nightmare fuel is extremely easy to obtain and 2 minutes (1/4 of a game day) is more than enough time to deal with any threat. Duelists can still whack armiess of spiders, they just can beat as many as Abigail which is hardly a downside. 

- Abigail's maximum damage is 40 per. For the cost of a single nightmare fuel, Maxwell can summon 5 minions that combined, not only more than double Abigail's max damage, but also have effectively more than 5x her HP.  

- Abigail being a light source isn't even a plus unless you've literally just installed the game.

The only actual downside you've listed is that Duelists can kill lots of spiders, they just can't kill as many as Abigail. In any other situation, Maxwell can summon the equivalent of 5 Abigails with the cost of a single nightmare fuel.  

So, what's the problem with all that you said? Play Maxwell and have fun, unless you don't want to.

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5 hours ago, Digi62BR said:

If we go by the character comparison logic, everyone should be nerfed, Webber for example is extremely OP because he has no spider limit, that is, he can be infinitely healed, they should put a limit on him.....For example 20 spiders... ..

What amazes me the most is the following, few here are really good at the game and that's why they think that playing with any character is ''easy'' but they forget that for most people that's not how it works....And in that they want to impose the personal taste of playing something extremely difficult and boring for the rest..... I'm glad the developers have some sense....And I'm glad there are mods.....

Have you ever fought a raid boss, Deerclops, Bearger or using an army of spiders?

The second paragraph just shows you didn't read what I actually wrote in the OP.

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6 minutes ago, SullyD said:

So, what's the problem with all that you said? Play Maxwell and have fun, unless you don't want to.

If Wilson's rework makes his punches instantly kill every enemy in the game, would you think that that was balanced?

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2 minutes ago, edulopes said:

One thing i ask why nerf Maxwell If Wanda wicker and Wolf are still in an absolute advantage and stronger than him?  You know If you wanna knock and tower down why take from the middle?

Probably because the current beta is only about Maxwell and no one else. Seems unproductive to ask for nerfs of other characters when they're not anywhere near the spotlight of the beta.

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1 minute ago, LDee said:

raid boss,

Spiders Can destroy Raid bosses that dont have AOE, DF KLAUS, BEARGER, DEERCLOPS EYES.... Any boss that do consistent aoe attacks destroy them

But, spiders Can help much against fuel Weaver, moose/goose, non enraged dragonfly,bee Queen the single target ones, spiders + nurse's spiders are good combos

 

1 minute ago, MadMatt said:

Probably because the current beta is only about Maxwell and no one else. Seems unproductive to ask for nerfs of other characters when they're not anywhere near the spotlight of the beta.

Well they buff caracters during betas, why not starting asking for other caracters buffs too, and i think that isnt an valid motive, wurt got on the map in middle beta

As i say Every caracter have is upsides, some like Willow Walter need some love

But for me even woodie that deserves some love has clearly his space on the Constant, 

I It is easier to make everyone on the same page them buffing the bosses, than nerfing the caracters and creating more Wars, "why my caracter was more nerfed than this" 

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3 minutes ago, edulopes said:

One thing i ask why nerf Maxwell If Wanda wicker and Wolf are still in an absolute advantage and stronger than him?  You know If you wanna knock and tower down why take from the middle?

 

Because from what I can see, and many people have already noticed, Maxwell has no right to have any ability that is better than another character.

 

2 minutes ago, LDee said:

If Wilson's rework makes his punches instantly kill every enemy in the game, would you think that that was balanced?

Yes, Wilson is the main protagonist and I would have fun with that.

Oh, be honest you are not here because of balancing, I don't want to take away the merit of your post ok, but the comparisons you make are not fair.

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5 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Well they buff caracters during betas, why not starting asking for other caracters buffs too, and i think that isnt an valid motive, wurt got on the map in middle beta

BRB gonna make 20 Woodie buff threads 

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2 minutes ago, edulopes said:

One thing i ask why nerf Maxwell If Wanda wicker and Wolf are still in an absolute advantage and stronger than him?  You know If you wanna knock and tower down why take from the middle?

 

Wicker is stronger than Maxwell? 

The reason Wanda and Wolf are fine is because one main reason and two minor ones:

Main: You have to actually engage the bosses with Wanda and Wolf.  They still need to know how each boss works and using that knowledge still need to develop different strategies to deal with the different movesets of different bosses.  Maxwell can use 1 strategy against pretty much every single boss that doesn't require him to engage in the fight and requires very little knowledge of the actual mechanics of the boss since his moves shut down those mechanics.

Minor: Wanda is balanced by her inability to heal effectively.

Minor: Wolfgang is almost a dedicated fighter class, if Maxwell was almost a dedicated fighter and could only summon duelists I wouldn't think he's OP in a bad way. However, in addition to duelists he has an equally broken utility move (Shadow Prison) as well as extremely strong non-combat utility moves like Shadow Servant.

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As i say buff ALL caracters tô almost Wanda and wicker levels than buff bosses

Wicker os the strongest caracter in the game, look at any mega base and the mas Farming her books provide, and no Maxwell Reading them dosent change nothing, you can mass change caracters at Will , and ALL wicker Farma you Farm only once per years of playtrough

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2 minutes ago, LDee said:

You have to actually engage the bosses

Just like any other character

3 minutes ago, LDee said:

Maxwell can use 1 strategy against pretty much every single boss that doesn't require him to engage in the fight

Have you read the patches notes?

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You need wicker to Maxwell read, and sanity If more available them everything, cactus kelp, banana honey, 

Use lunar Island, boné helm, wicker has no downside at all

4 minutes ago, LDee said:

Minor: Wanda is balanced by her inability to heal effectively.

Tô be Fair Wanda healing is better than ALL caracters, you can simple negate ALL tick damage If you start the healing asap taming damage, her clocks ia easy to mass produce, and ver range breaks most bosses

Wanda have tp as her ultility, perma ressurection of friends, raged attack most damage or ALL game,Dodge, not haver negative San aura using Shadow gear, do You nerd more?

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7 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Spiders Can destroy Raid bosses that dont have AOE, DF KLAUS, BEARGER, DEERCLOPS EYES.... Any boss that do consistent aoe attacks destroy them

But, spiders Can help much against fuel Weaver, moose/goose, non enraged dragonfly,bee Queen the single target ones, spiders + nurse's spiders are good combos

This is not true. In order to balance Webber out against Bee Queen, they made it so that every time she screams, it disables all of your spiders for a 5-10 seconds.  

Of the raid bosses, the only one that Webber can actually steamroll is Dragonfly if you have walls set up and use panflute quickly.  All the others have AoE attacks or will put your spiders into panic for the majority of the fight.  

That's why Webber is well-balanced, he can't just sit back and let his minions destroy raid bosses. He needs to know what the bosses can do so he can develop effective counters to them, and if he messes up and gets all his spiders killed, he is punished because it'll take him days to build his army back up.

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Wolf can face tank with no penalties, more than Maxwell and Wanda, Wolf rows faster, carry big fruts and veggies and statues faster, chops sometimes fasters, his Max damage dont have any dificult to use(same as wanda) or impractical(same as Maxwell)( because Max have to lose time to sunmon, have to waste more resources to have an specific gear, and have to participate to  have hus Max damage, but the shadows can sometimes aggro the Boss on you, and adding the long casts you Will probabily get hit, not couting New players Will suffer to get the gear 

3 minutes ago, LDee said:

Bee Queen

https://youtu.be/tKM5ool28cc

28 min marker

Spiders destroy crab king

5 minutes ago, LDee said:

That's why Webber is well-balanced, he can't just sit back

Not that  think Webber isnt ballanced, o think he is ballanced, i Just hate spiders, but there is vídeo proof

If you know how to use ALL your game knolwage you can and Will destroy any Boss even with wes

And in the end the better way to kill bosses ia Always the fastest, less figth Mean less Room for error

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