Making statues unload after creatures

[Escripid]

So I've been trying to make an fully automated pig and bunny farm using spitters.

The thing about this farm is that I enclose the spitters inside a statues pen (cuz they would attack normal walls) and then they snipe the pigs. 

The cool thing about this is that in theory it requires zero maintenace and the spitters won't be able to eat the loot. 

The problem is that whenever the farm is being unloaded, the statues disappear first, leaving a small window for the spiders to leave the pen, essentially breaking the farm. 

Now I know there is a performance reason, but would it really change much to make statues unload right after creatures? They are, after all, "pseudo structures". 

I'm not a game developer so yeah, but I think if it's possible to make that change, a lot of people who like to automate and build farms would be able to make new cool inventions. 

Unload priority: creatures > statues > walls

Load priority: walls > statues > creatures

[Capybara007]

yes please

[ArubaroBeefalo]

one day klei will decide to fix that... one day

[Falkenpelz]

I didn't even know this and your suggestion makes perfect sense, please Klei!

[zarklord_klei]

The system cannot and does not support that kind of priority, it only unloads by distance (or in the case of walls, not unload at all.) The reason statutes don't use the same system is A: performance, loading the statue physics at all times is expensive and doesn't really serve a purpose, B: statues aren't intended to be used as walls, and will not be given any missing capabilities that make them act more like walls. 

[Aeglefire]

43 minutes ago, zarklord_klei said:

statues aren't intended to be used as walls

I can see the next update now:

Fixed statues being able to be used as walls.  

[Captain_Rage]

41 minutes ago, Aeglefire said:

I can see the next update now:

Fixed statues being able to be used as walls.  

What is even better is that this thread is accompanied by a thread with requests of performance enhancements. Can we keep the egg and crack it at the same time? Guess in this community everything is possible.

[JazzyGames]

4 hours ago, Aeglefire said:

I can see the next update now:

Fixed statues being able to be used as walls.  

I seriously doubt this scenario would become a reality at this point. It would instantly break countless farms and not serve much in the way of practical purpose.

[Gashzer]

9 hours ago, JazzyGames said:

I seriously doubt this scenario would become a reality at this point. It would instantly break countless farms and not serve much in the way of practical purpose.

I really hope it does become a reality, using statues(or fossils) as walls is one of the longest lasting, really unpolished looking bugs that dst has. Everytime i watch a youtube video of one of you guys using statues as bugged out walls, it makes DST (a 6 year old game) look like an unpolished early access game.

Regardless of the functional but exploity farms created with them, the fact that statues act as better walls than the actual walls you can craft is ridiculous. Normal walls should be buffed. 

Watching mobs get stuck running endlessly brain dead against statues (even with regular walls) is a massive immersion breaker that reminds me how much mob A.I needs an overhaul update.

A standard pig farm for example. Pigs walking brain dead against a wall... forever... to get pig skin at the otherside. The idea of a pig farm is fine, just give the pigs an animation when they reach the wall so it doesnt look so buggy (like repeating jumping, trying to see over it to find food they smell, make them acknowledge the wall atleast)

Spoiler

Edit: Before someone comes out with the arguement of... if you don't like using statues as walls then simply don't use it. Let the rest of us do what we want.

Number 1: That mindset of not polishing bugs out of a game and the playerbase being happy with it, is why so many games are stuck in early access forever. its the principle.

I pay for each skin bundle that comes out, as a loyal continued supporter of DST and of Klei, i want dst to be as bug free an immersive as possible, why bother supporting it otherwise? Thankfully Klei are good with the updates, I wouldn't be here complaining if Klei didn't listen to the forums.

Number 2: I play public servers often as its Don't starve together not alone. Other people use these bugs all the time. I bare witness to dumb pigs headbanging walls for eternity, all the time on pubs.

 

[flamboyant wolf]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

 

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Number 1: That mindset of not polishing bugs out of a game and the playerbase being happy with it, is why so many games are stuck in early access forever. its the principle.

 

I have to disagree. 

from what I saw so far, most cases where games stay in early access for a long time/forever happen because of stuff like lack of needed resources, unsuccessful sales, various personal reasons etc, not because of developers leaving "bugs", which improve QoL of a solid part of the playerbase in the game. 

of course it can differ from case to case, but I'm yet to see that happening because of something like that. 

[Capybara007]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I really hope it does become a reality, using statues(or fossils) as walls is one of the longest lasting, really unpolished looking bugs that dst has. Everytime i watch a youtube video of one of you guys using statues as bugged out walls, it makes DST (a 6 year old game) look like an unpolished early access game.

nobody sees someone using statues as walls as unpolished, only you

that is like removing golem farms from minecraft because thats not the intended way of getting iron, if mojang wouldve fixed all of those exploits minecraft would be a way worse game now, and hopefully klei neither takes that direction

the most fun ive had in this game is setting up intelligent farms for hounds or pigs using statues, dont take that away from us

[Well-met]

20 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

nobody sees someone using statues as walls as unpolished, only you

wrong

20 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

and hopefully klei neither takes that direction

they've been fixing quite a few exploits in the recent year, don't be so sure

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

nobody sees someone using statues as walls as unpolished, only you

that is like removing golem farms from minecraft because thats not the intended way of getting iron, if mojang wouldve fixed all of those exploits minecraft would be a way worse game now, and hopefully klei neither takes that direction

the most fun ive had in this game is setting up intelligent farms for hounds or pigs using statues, dont take that away from us

I honestly do not want the core of what these farms are to break. I just want a more polished method, that isn't aesthetically displeasing to watch, to achieve the same results as the current buggy-ass statues do now. Maybe make the ancient fuelweaver drop a blueprint for a shadow shield bone wall thats invincible, but mobs try to attack it once in a while then deaggro for abit? or something legit. If walls didn't exist in the game i would be happy enough seeing people use statues as the only form of blocking mobs. But walls do exist and need Qol fixes!

I'm sure people loved getting klaus stuck on his sack during that fight. Why do you think klei patched that? Bugs need to be addressed.

2 hours ago, skile said:

I have to disagree. 

from what I saw so far, most cases where games stay in early access for a long time/forever happen because of stuff like lack of needed resources, unsuccessful sales, various personal reasons etc, not because of developers leaving "bugs", which improve QoL of a solid part of the playerbase in the game. 

of course it can differ from case to case, but I'm yet to see that happening because of something like that. 

Yeah ofc there are more reasons for a failed game but like we the players need to hold developers to a high standard and not just accept or buy half-assed buggy games. I'm getting off topic.... anyway not implying DST is bug filled, its not, Klei are good devs however just a few minor bugs have persisted for awhile now. Statues/fossils being the best non-intentional walls in the game being one of them.

[Capybara007]

imagine if klei instead of reworking the ancient guardian just fixed the exploit where you just cheese him with a pillar, so you would have to do that pathetic and boring fight

if klei doesnt add a proper way to make mobs get stuck like the statues do then changing how these work would be a huge letdown for many people that enjoy making farms

[JazzyGames]

13 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Everytime i watch a youtube video of one of you guys using statues as bugged out walls, it makes DST look like an unpolished early access game.

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Edit: Before someone comes out with the arguement of... if you don't like using statues as walls then simply don't use it. Let the rest of us do what we want.

Number 1: That mindset of not polishing bugs out of a game and the playerbase being happy with it, is why so many games are stuck in early access forever. its the principle.

I pay for each skin bundle that comes out, as a loyal continued supporter of DST and of Klei, i want dst to be as bug free an immersive as possible, why bother supporting it otherwise? Thankfully Klei are good with the updates, I wouldn't be here complaining if Klei didn't listen to the forums.

Number 2: I play public servers often as its Don't starve together not alone. Other people use these bugs all the time. I bare witness to dumb pigs headbanging walls for eternity, all the time on pubs.

 

This was a really unnecessary comment directed at nobody in particular. Just because unintended mechanics exist in a game, that doesn't automatically downgrade the game into the category of "unpolished early access." Some beautiful and time-consuming builds have been built around the mechanics of statues blocking mobs. Intended or no, statues perform a function that walls do not, and the increased cost of statues is fairly balanced in that regard. Klei has known about this for far too long to simply remove the mechanic at this point without providing an alternative solution for blocking mobs.

[Gashzer]

3 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

if klei doesnt add a proper way to make mobs get stuck like the statues do then changing how these work would be a huge letdown for many people that enjoy making farms

I said how i didnt want these farms to break?? Just there is got to be a way to make them work (new late game wall/fence type, refer back to my ancient fuelweaver drop idea) without watching clearly bugged out mob A.I with mobs sprinting into a statue.

1 hour ago, JazzyGames said:

This was a really unnecessary comment directed at nobody in particular. Just because unintended mechanics exist in a game, that doesn't automatically downgrade the game into the category of "unpolished early access." Some beautiful and time-consuming builds have been built around the mechanics of statues blocking mobs. Intended or no, statues perform a function that walls do not, and the increased cost of statues is fairly balanced in that regard. Klei has known about this for far too long to simply remove the mechanic at this point without providing an alternative solution for blocking mobs.

My opinion isn't an unnecessary comment, thats abit dismissive of you Jazzy lol. Watching the buggy Mob A.I does remind me of unpolished early access games. Npcs getting stuck in walls while their sprinting animation plays is like the stereotypical buggy npc A.I. No game looks good when this happens, fallout 4 comes to mind..... what a glorious buggy mess of a game that was. 

[JazzyGames]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but to me you seem less against the mechanic of statues used as walls, and more upset about the way it looks. If that is the case then nothing really needs to change beside minor adjustments to the animations of mobs when they come into contact with the hitbox of a static entity.

And yes, it was unnecessary to mention content creators as if we are somehow glorifying aspects of the game that you perceive as unsightly. Your qualm has zero to do with our content.

[Gashzer]

Just now, JazzyGames said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but to me you seem less against the mechanic of statues used as walls, and more upset about the way it looks. If that is the case then nothing really needs to change beside minor adjustments to the animations of mobs when they come into contact with the hitbox of a static entity.

Yes you are correct, i rather klei reworked the actual walls in the game to function to a similar effect as people currently use the statues. Let the statues be what the statues were meant to be, purely decoration (apart from shadow pieces ofc )

 

5 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

And yes, it was unnecessary to mention content creators as if we are somehow glorifying aspects of the game that you perceive as unsightly. Your qualm has zero to do with our content.

You made a few assumptions there, i have no qualm with any individual youtuber or streamer or content, i was just sayin, at face value, when i watch a video of someone using statues to block mobs, it looks buggy as all hell. Literally doesn't go any deeper than that lol

[JazzyGames]

56 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yes you are correct, i rather klei reworked the actual walls in the game to function to a similar effect as people currently use the statues.

Cool cool. I too would support an overhaul of the function of walls, although I do feel that blocking mobs would certainly merit an increase in cost to compensate. Perhaps a newer, more costly wall such as marble could accommodate that need. I would love to have a solution that didn't risk mobs glitching through simply because of loading priority.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Yes you are correct, i rather klei reworked the actual walls in the game to function to a similar effect as people currently use the statues. Let the statues be what the statues were meant to be, purely decoration (apart from shadow pieces ofc )

 

You made a few assumptions there, i have no qualm with any individual youtuber or streamer or content, i was just sayin, at face value, when i watch a video of someone using statues to block mobs, it looks buggy as all hell. Literally doesn't go any deeper than that lol

Its not exactly the walls fault Walls do exactly as they are intended they block pathing for ai
Majority of Structures also block movement but does not block pathing Which is why this happens.  This would take alot more processes and maybe even make the game look worse as you take followers through your base as they would have to path around every single object that has collision.

Statues has existed for so long.  And many players have created unique things with them.
But you know before statues existed people would just use a sign to block creatures. It did the same purpose but was not moveable.

Players have even used mobs to body block stuff.
Look at older dragonfly cheeses With the bunnyman wall.
Klei will patch out things that they feel are too broken Its a delicate balance to keep
Because exploration and experimentation is part of the game.

And whats wrong with a little bit of ai manipulation?

 

[Gashzer]

45 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Its not exactly the walls fault Walls do exactly as they are intended they block pathing for ai
Majority of Structures also block movement but does not block pathing Which is why this happens.  This would take alot more processes and maybe even make the game look worse as you take followers through your base as they would have to path around every single object that has collision.

Statues has existed for so long.  And many players have created unique things with them.
But you know before statues existed people would just use a sign to block creatures. It did the same purpose but was not moveable.

Players have even used mobs to body block stuff.
Look at older dragonfly cheeses With the bunnyman wall.
Klei will patch out things that they feel are too broken Its a delicate balance to keep
Because exploration and experimentation is part of the game.

And whats wrong with a little bit of ai manipulation?

 

Not gonna lie, its not even about the statues, its just i want more mob interactions with the world to make it feel more alive.

Like i said before, pigmen jumping to see what treat they smell beyond the wall instead of walking mindless against it.

Hounds biting and breaking off a tooth on a stone wall, making them cower an back away abit from it regretting their life decisions...

This is more what im getting at with my arguements. The statues are just my example of how mobs in dst have limited interaction animations with the world around them. 

Edit: Also is it mad for me to ask that instead of statues being the best wall for blocking mobs, that walls be the best wall for blocking mobs?