redspider Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Is it just me or am I the only one that feels that wortox got a lot of hate by the community? he get a little QoL buff and suddenly he's op, I dont think that with how Wanda is now, her "glass cannon" is only relevant if you choose to play that way, else she has average hp, and the teleport utility which can only get better and basically almost free to maintain, and can also support ressurect others and self, any other nerf on any character actually doesnt make much sense. As for other wortox perks, healing is actually less relevant the better armor you have later in the game, the better armor you have, the less relevant it is. with 95% reduction on marble suit and 735 durability, it will only deal 39 health to your HP for every marble suit you bring to the battle, wilson with 150hp can have 3 marble suit and he can tank for 2.3k HP before needing to heal at all, but i think this goes to all healing and not exclusive to wortox's (which again, easy to farm, making healing perk on wortox less relevant). I think my point is that damage reduction on armor is too high compared to the need to heal hp. Thank you for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Being able to soul hop to dodge attacks is better than using the souls as healing, also its so much fun and easier to pull off compared with wandas backstep watch. Yes wortox may not be the most efficient late game character but by golly his soul hopping is alot of fun. And thats what gaming is all about. Wanda takes 2.5hours minimum from day 1 to get her rift teleport... ah yes im prepared to wait that amount of time everytime i join a new public game to get teleporting *sarcasm*.... or i could play wortox and get it instantly. Wanda is great for private worlds or long play sessions but wortox is far better for public worlds and shorter play sessions. Experienced players who don't like character swapping or only care about the late game think wortox is underwhelming. But the more efficient way to play dst is to start with wortox for day 1-21 then swap to wanda when you get access to the rift watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 People have always hated the dlc characters. I think they are gamers and just want excuses to call games pay to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 I was surprised too by the hate towards wortox. I mean when he got released compared to the other characters it was certainly very powerful (OP would be debatable, just very powerful compared to most characters being in pre reworked state). As the game got a lot of new things and the all the characters became better, the low ends in Wortox started to show much more. In the current (non beta) game, Wortox is incredibly mediocre to say the least. - Can’t chop trees with pigs - Is forever cursed to eat a lot more - Souls healing is somewhat ineffective in the late game - Can’t see who needs healing and who doesn’t - In the late game the most you’d use of his perks is eating souls instead of food to sustain yourself better The new changes are amazing for him and a step into the right direction, but people just started thinking about “stepping into Wanda’s shoes” and got freaked out. As a matter of fact I’d even expand Wortox powers even further: - be able to tell what allies need healing, maybe even to the extent of being able to see all the other creatures “souls” (hp) - be able to teleport active ridden beefalos - be able to heal minions, specially now since we have 2 very good minion characters and one of which can share part of this perk with Wortox via Wurt mask - Be able to heal ridden beefalos, for a more engaging late game Wortox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redspider Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 I agree with those downsides and it seems pretty harsh. Food and Healing are easy but it's still take twice as many for wortox, hence wasting more time gathering those, or use soul which will limit the use of his only other perk (soul hop). Wortox seems to have a fast to get around perk with soul hop but it's actually an illusion because the time it take to farm those souls can be used to just walk instead especially if compared with other fast character or beefalo riding which everybody has access to. Not to mention the time needed to get twice as much food/healing if you decide to use souls solely for transportation. Also, Do people really think exploring as Wortox is much faster than other character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinjetica Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 3 hours ago, redspider said: Wortox seems to have a fast to get around perk with soul hop but it's actually an illusion because the time it take to farm those souls can be used to just walk instead especially if compared with other fast character or beefalo riding which everybody has access to. Not to mention the time needed to get twice as much food/healing if you decide to use souls solely for transportation. If you play with Wendy, you will have more souls than you will ever need...not that Wortox would be able to hold them...the same can be said of walter and his bird killing slingshot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2mk Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 On 7/16/2022 at 10:07 PM, redspider said: "glass cannon" by the point you can make an alarming clock you can also make shadow armor, at that point she's hardly a OLMG EPIC LE GLASS CANNON and is just really powerful damage wise, in addition to her weapon being a whip. it's fun, but if there's any "op" DLC character it's Wanda. I kind of cringe when I see the posts about how Wanda is being replaced by Wortox or whatever, or that Wortox is too OP. People talk of some holy trinity that forumites seek to protect, but the way I see it the beloved meta character is Wanda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybers2001 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, Jinjetica said: If you play with Wendy, you will have more souls than you will ever need...not that Wortox would be able to hold them...the same can be said of walter and his bird killing slingshot.... When people say this, I get the feeling they haven't played more than 2 minutes of Wortox. Getting souls isn't meant to be difficult, and it's only one aspect of his kit. You have to be always cognizant of your soul levels. Obviously being in a situation where you need them sucks if you don't have any, but it's also problematic to have too many. Getting overloaded is the worst, as it stuns you, makes you lose sanity, and you lose 10 souls. Dodging souls to avoid overloading is like dodging cursed trinkets from powder monkeys in that regard. Now maybe map hopping is too good, and people will use it whenever they can. Well, that still makes farming with an Abigail overrated here. As soon as I map hop, I'm out of souls. Then what? Sit around and wait for Wendy so she can load me up again? If I want to round trip anywhere far, I basically need to prep soul farms at every destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chincer Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 i think his soul hop being the only real perk he has being expanded is amazing people are to hellbend on his healing being OP when it rarely matters at all unless you have some tanking moose woodie doing the boss fights. the mayority of veterans resort to pierogi it seems the no followers downaside feels very punishing at times when you just want to make things easier for yourself but i have also found that since the lunar portal is a thing and you can change late game, characters with early game perks like wortox are at a disadvantage in the long run, so it is fine for him to be "OP" in his one niche thing he can do because no one gonna play him unless they really like him after tusks become common, wanda's teleport is far better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Giggio Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/17/2022 at 9:18 AM, ShadowDuelist said: Spoiler I was surprised too by the hate towards wortox. I mean when he got released compared to the other characters it was certainly very powerful (OP would be debatable, just very powerful compared to most characters being in pre reworked state). As the game got a lot of new things and the all the characters became better, the low ends in Wortox started to show much more. In the current (non beta) game, Wortox is incredibly mediocre to say the least. - Can’t chop trees with pigs - Is forever cursed to eat a lot more - Souls healing is somewhat ineffective in the late game - Can’t see who needs healing and who doesn’t - In the late game the most you’d use of his perks is eating souls instead of food to sustain yourself better The new changes are amazing for him and a step into the right direction, but people just started thinking about “stepping into Wanda’s shoes” and got freaked out. As a matter of fact I’d even expand Wortox powers even further: - be able to tell what allies need healing, maybe even to the extent of being able to see all the other creatures “souls” (hp) - be able to teleport active ridden beefalos - be able to heal minions, specially now since we have 2 very good minion characters and one of which can share part of this perk with Wortox via Wurt mask - Be able to heal ridden beefalos, for a more engaging late game Wortox. Accurate, thank you I share exactly the same POV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redspider Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 Do you think the downside of Wortox is too harsh? He has same downside as Webber, and some extra harsher one. Beside enemies with the pigs, getting half value from food recovering sanity and health is actually harsh too, with moderate soul diet and hopping around, Wortox might have around 10 souls to heal, in order to heal 400 hp, he need to use all those 10 souls + 10 pierogi. Other character can just use the same 10 pierogi to heal those ammount, so there's actually not much healing advantage for Wortox. I think it's because people mostly use food for healing instead the actual healing items, beacause it's easy to get.The perk of healing others is not reliable too as you can't see how many health your friends has, It's better for everyone to carry their own healing, it's much more reliable than to depend from a Wortox to heal. I think reducing the food penalty to 25%, or getting 50% for stomach but no penalty for sanity/health will make him less tedious to play. The eating/healing with soul perk is actually forced for him because other character can manage to get food and healing just fine as they don't have the double food consumption Wortox has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/17/2022 at 8:18 AM, ShadowDuelist said: I was surprised too by the hate towards wortox. I mean when he got released compared to the other characters it was certainly very powerful (OP would be debatable, just very powerful compared to most characters being in pre reworked state). As the game got a lot of new things and the all the characters became better, the low ends in Wortox started to show much more. In the current (non beta) game, Wortox is incredibly mediocre to say the least. I disagree with this point. I don’t think pre Wortox was ever good and I think people realized this as they got better at the game I don’t think him being bad had anything to do with the reworks and changes to the game. people got better at kiting so soul kiting is useless people could rush jelly beans and use blue caps prior people could tame a beefalo with ease to get better speed it wasn’t any sort of power creep that made wortox bad it was the fact that people got better at the game and had less need to play him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/17/2022 at 8:18 AM, ShadowDuelist said: - Can’t chop trees with pigs I don't have much to add to this topic because I agree with the Wortox feeling mediocre but I figured I'd mention this to put the knowledge out there...look away devs this isn't for your eyes... Spoiler I mean it look away devs... Spoiler Wortox and Webber can recruit pigs if you feed them while using the one man band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2mk Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 6 hours ago, Mysterious box said: Wortox and Webber can recruit pigs if you feed them while using the one man band. it's like I always say! Even crazy musicians amass a following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 23 hours ago, Dextops said: people got better at kiting so soul kiting is useless I disagree with your overall pov, but I don't really want to discuss anything about it but this little implication. I feel like in all my years as someone playing DST, wortox has never, not once been used in order to kite things by soul hopping repeatedly. There are so many reasons why that would be levels of inconvenient reached only by pre-rework wendy holding ~5 flowers to keep abigail during bosses. I don't know anyone in their right mind that would go through the effort of carrying however many souls + however many live critters to sacrifice for extra souls because even the absolute max of 20 is not going to be enough for most bosses where you might want to go through the effort. And then you have to continuously right click the ground right beneath you in such a way that requires infinitely more precision and practice than what you would need for just kiting. Discussion of this kind of thing furstrates me, because its a very strong example of a bad habit in DST circles where someone will describe a strategy that only really works on paper and it'll be held up as if its been written on the parchment that some divine entity has blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Primalflower said: wortox has never, not once been used in order to kite things by soul hopping repeatedly. There are so many reasons why that would be levels of inconvenient reached only by pre-rework wendy holding ~5 flowers to keep abigail during bosses. I don't know anyone in their right mind that would go through the effort of carrying however many souls + however many live critters to sacrifice for extra souls because even the absolute max of 20 is not going to be enough for most bosses where you might want to go through the effort. And then you have to continuously right click the ground right beneath you in such a way that requires infinitely more precision and practice than what you would need for just kiting. Obviously any discussion over this is anecdotal but I have seen it been brought up in countless arguments but it was also brought up in James bucket’s about wortox so to deny that people have actually done it (despite it being worse than actual kiting in every conceivable way) is a bit foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Dextops said: Obviously any discussion over this is anecdotal but I have seen it been brought up in countless arguments but it was also brought up in James bucket’s about wortox so to deny that people have actually done it (despite it being worse than actual kiting in every conceivable way) is a bit foolish. It's been brought up, yeah. That doesn't mean people actually do it, perhaps outside of hyper specialized experimentation that was done when wortox first released, and then never again because it was never practical. That was my entire point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redspider Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 24 minutes ago, Primalflower said: I don't know anyone in their right mind that would go through the effort of carrying however many souls + however many live critters to sacrifice for extra souls because even the absolute max of 20 is not going to be enough for most bosses where you might want to go through the effort. And then you have to continuously right click the ground right beneath you in such a way that requires infinitely more precision and practice than what you would need for just kiting. Isn't Wanda much better at kiting because it's just a press of button with infinite uses? Seems like Wanda is what Wortox but better. I think Wortox is kinda forced to eat and heal with souls because using normal food means he will need twice ammount of time to farm those. You want to soul hop to "save time"? then go punch butterfly first, then after that prepare twice the ammount of time compared to others gathering your food/healing needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn from human Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, Primalflower said: perhaps outside of hyper specialized experimentation that was done when wortox first released, and then never again because it was never practical. I'd like to mention here that back when the "DS/T Discord" was the big DST discussion place, I was actually the first to post a 20-minutes-after-release-hype video of myself kiting Deerclops with Wortox, and though it rapidly spread throughout different communities and made its way into videos soon after... I have literally never heard of anyone actually doing it. I've heard of people describe it as a thing you CAN do, but I've never seen a Wortox ever do that literally ever, as it's super unpractical and takes way more effort than normal kiting for something that just like, makes a fight last 10 seconds less than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 52 minutes ago, Primalflower said: It's been brought up, yeah. That doesn't mean people actually do it, perhaps outside of hyper specialized experimentation that was done when wortox first released, and then never again because it was never practical. That was my entire point... And my point was that it also was never practical and was only seen as good at the beginning of his release. That’s why I said “(despite it being worse than kiting in every conceivable way)” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 20 minutes ago, Dextops said: And my point was that it also was never practical and was only seen as good at the beginning of his release. That’s why I said “(despite it being worse than kiting in every conceivable way)” so.... you agree with me, and your original post describing soul hopping as a crutch before you learn kiting was misguided...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlrust Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 On 7/16/2022 at 10:07 PM, redspider said: that wortox got a lot of hate by the community? The community is all over the place over everything ever, for literally every update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 9 hours ago, Primalflower said: so.... you agree with me, and your original post describing soul hopping as a crutch before you learn kiting was misguided...? Yes, I think I should’ve phrased it better as people thought these things were good at first but once they really tried them out they weren’t as good as they were hyped up to be when talking about soul kiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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