[Suggestion] Make moon book like moon caller's staff

[goatt]

Edit: update write-up visit here

The original post doesn't reflect recent changes.

 

I think the full moon book should summon a local moon like moon caller's staff, for 2 reasons:

1. it's too cheap. The reduced range can also justify the book's low cost in comparison to Lux Aeterna, because Lux Aeterna last 1 day, which provides light for exactly 1 night, same as the moon book.

2. it's too op. Global light, or global moggle for every one? That's insane compared to alternatives such as star/moon callers staff, moggle, light books, and the effort needed to activate moonstorms.

 

(The local moon has local effects that can transform werepigs, and summon glommer's flowers at the statues, and turn clock marbles into clockworks, and of course, curse baby woodies.)

[Arcwell]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:43 PM, goatt said:

1. it's too cheap.

Agreed. Though, wouldn't the answer be to change the crafting cost instead of reworking it entirely? It could cost something like a purple moonlens, or even an iridescent gem if the devs are so inclined. (EDIT: I deeply regret making this comment)

On 7/16/2022 at 1:43 PM, goatt said:

2. it's too op

I disagree. The book costs 50 sanity per day in exchange for not having to carry around light bulbs in the overworld. Couple this with the fact that you're forced not to use it for at least 10 days if you want to fight Shadow Pieces and I think it's fair.

[Mysterious box]

9 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I disagree. The book costs 50 sanity per day in exchange for not having to carry around light bulbs in the overworld. Couple this with the fact that you're forced not to use it for at least 10 days if you want to fight Shadow Pieces and I think it's fair.

Hard disagree recovering 50 sanity a day is child play compared to all the advantages the full moon brings.

Edit: Heck if a Wendy player makes a sisturn at base you've recovered it's entire cost in 2 minutes of waiting. 

[Arcwell]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

if a Wendy player makes a sisturn at base you've recovered it's entire cost in 2 minutes of waiting. 

That would involve sitting around not being productive for 25% of every day.

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

recovering 50 sanity a day is child play

Lategame yes, but early-midgame solutions are quite time consuming (i.e. you could pick 10 flowers per day, or 4 cactus per day). By the time you have access to heavy-duty solutions like bone helm or mass producing banana shakes/surf'n'turf, you could just activate moonstorms instead.

[Cassielu]

Come on, glow is one of the most boring abilities. If they can, I hope she only applies the full moon effect to things around her, so that it still serves its original purpose and is not abused to affect the whole world. Or make it an inactive version of the lunar essence, turning things into their lunar variant form, which is an interesting ability that wouldn't be appropriate to lock behind a festive event.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

That would involve sitting around not being productive for 25% of every day.

Lategame yes, but early-midgame solutions are quite time consuming (i.e. you could pick 10 flowers per day, or 4 cactus per day). By the time you have access to heavy-duty solutions like bone helm or mass producing banana shakes/surf'n'turf, you could just activate moonstorms instead.

how about wearing a tamo o shanter, or using dried kelp also why would you just pick only 4 cactus then come back? I feel like your vastly underestimating how easy it is to recover sanity.

4 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Come on, glow is one of the most boring abilities. If they can, I hope she only applies the full moon effect to things around her, so that it still serves its original purpose and is not abused to affect the whole world.

Agreed there's really zero reason to use the other light books unless your cave basing.

[Arcwell]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

how about wearing a tamo o shanter

I'm currently playing a Wickerbottom world where I wear a tam o' shanter all the time and I'm still constantly insane. It recovers 53.6 sanity per day, which would only be enough to offset lunar grimoire if night/dusk didn't exist, not including other wickerbottom books.

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

or using dried kelp

Hadn't thought of this, that is a pretty good solution. 

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

why would you just pick only 4 cactus then come back?

Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that it'd be 4 at a time, I meant 4 for every day you'd want to use the book. You'd want to grab as many as possible and it'd deplete by 4 per day.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I'm currently playing a Wickerbottom world where I wear a tam o' shanter all the time and I'm still constantly insane. It recovers 53.6 sanity per day, which would only be enough to offset lunar grimoire if night/dusk didn't exist, not including other wickerbottom books.

try adding a dapper vest finally time that thing got some use I guess.

[Arcwell]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

try adding a dapper vest finally time that thing got some use I guess.

And give up my backpack? No thanks :P 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Arcwell said:

And give up my backpack? No thanks :P 

A backpack or full moons every night well everyone has their own priorities. 

[Copyafriend]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A backpack or full moons every night well everyone has their own priorities. 

I’ll stick with my tea, 45 a sip is plenty but you wear your dapper vest i guess

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I’ll stick with my tea, 45 a sip is plenty but you wear your dapper vest i guess

Don't get me wrong I won't wear it I'll be munching my dried kelp.

[Arcwell]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

A backpack or full moons every night well everyone has their own priorities. 

You know it.

For real though, I'm not arguing full moon isn't strong, I just don't think it's OP. It's like WX-78's nightvision but with a few key differences:
+ Affects every player
+ Triggers full moon events (i.e. werepigs, glommer, mooncaller)
- Has a sanity cost (which is manageable, yes, but not free like WX-78's nightvision)
- Only works on the overworld
- Delays new moon

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

You know it.

For real though, I'm not arguing full moon isn't strong, I just don't think it's OP. It's like WX-78's nightvision but with a few key differences:
+ Affects every player
+ Triggers full moon events (i.e. werepigs, glommer, mooncaller)
- Has a sanity cost (which is manageable, yes, but not free like WX-78's nightvision)
- Only works on the overworld
- Delays new moon

I don't see Wx's night vision and the full moon being in the same ball park feel like it's comparing a log suit to bone armor both are useful but there's clearly a large gap in usefulness.

[Arcwell]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

I don't see Wx's night vision and the full moon being in the same ball park feel like it's comparing a log suit to bone armor both are useful but there's clearly a large gap in usefulness.

Okay, which part of full moon do you think is broken then? Werepig farming? The fact that it affects every player? Something else?

My take is that the most important place for global light would be the ruins, which lunar grimoire doesn't work in. Overworld nights are usually less than a quarter of a day, and don't have (many) clockworks waiting outside lantern range to ambush you.

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Okay, which part of full moon do you think is broken then? Werepig farming? The fact that it affects every player? Something else?

My take is that the most important place for global light would be the ruins, which lunar grimoire doesn't work in. Overworld nights are usually less than a quarter of a day, and don't have (many) clockworks waiting outside lantern range to ambush you.

I mean the moon gives benefits from too many angles and effects too many things on the surface for example on the lunar island it lets you bathbomb the hot springs for glass and gems and also resets the hotsprings in the morning so you can do it again the next nights or you could just use the moon caller event to farm limitless amounts of moon stone it's not just about having light at night the entire world turns to one of it's most profitable states.

[Arcwell]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

it lets you bathbomb the hot springs for glass and gems and also resets the hotsprings in the morning so you can do it again the next nights

True, hadn't thought of that! Though, wouldn't farming Celestial Champion be more efficient for glass, and hound waves more efficient for gems? I've never tried this method but I'd imagine mass-producing bath bombs would be a chore.

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

you could just use the moon caller event to farm limitless amounts of moon stone

You can already do this any night with the shadow thurible + lureplant method, or activating moonstorms. Is there reason to mass produce moon rock before getting to that point?

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean the moon gives benefits from too many angles and effects too many things on the surface

My point is quality > quantity. It has a lot of different effects, sure, but imo none of them are strong enough to warrant nerfing when most have good alternatives and Wickerbottom's character is dictated by the power of her spells.

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Arcwell said:

heavy-duty solutions like bone helm or mass producing banana shakes/surf'n'turf,

Unrelated just curious - do people forget about Creamy Potato Puree, Melonsicle, Vegetable Stinger, or Salsa Verde for sanity regen? Can easily amass a farm of Creamy Potato Puree by day 10 and by the time Spring comes you can get a full farm of Toma Roots and Melons. Since you just went through winter you (hopefully) have plenty of Ice laying around for Stingers or Melonsicles.
 

The reason I bring up Melonsicle despite not being as powerful as Potato Puree or Stinger it does only cost 1 ice, 1 melon, and 2 sticks.

[Arcwell]

Just now, Evelo said:

Unrelated just curious - do people forget about Creamy Potato Puree, Melonsicle, Vegetable Stinger, or Salsa Verde for sanity regen? Can easily amass a farm of Creamy Potato Puree by day 10 and by the time Spring comes you can get a full farm of Toma Roots and Melons. Since you just went through winter you (hopefully) have plenty of Ice laying around for Stingers or Melonsicles.
 

The reason I bring up Melonsicle despite not being as powerful as Potato Puree or Stinger it does only cost 1 ice, 1 melon, and 2 sticks.

I considered them, but I don't use them personally because of the time investment required for building and maintaining a farm. It's certainly strong once you get it going though, especially if you have a Wormwood on the team. I like to rush bosses/ruins in the first few seasons, it's hard to farm and do that without losing productivity on one or the other.

[skile]

4 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I considered them, but I don't use them personally because of the time investment required for building and maintaining a farm. It's certainly strong once you get it going though, especially if you have a Wormwood on the team. I like to rush bosses/ruins in the first few seasons, it's hard to farm and do that without losing productivity on one or the other.

i mean... if you're already playing Wickerbottom, might as well use her books to make the process faster. 

with her upgraded crop growing book you can get up to 2 seeds per crop, so if you get enough (which is not that hard) and restore their durability with bookshelf you can get your hands on the crops you want pretty quick. 

 

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Arcwell said:

My point is quality > quantity. It has a lot of different effects, sure, but imo none of them are strong enough to warrant nerfing when most have good alternatives and Wickerbottom's character is dictated by the power of her spells.

No no my point is that those things are all very powerful those aren't minor things I'm not sure where you got the idea that those were minor advantages and it's all tied to a single book at the meager cost of 50 sanity.

 

5 hours ago, Arcwell said:

You can already do this any night with the shadow thurible + lureplant method, or activating moonstorms. Is there reason to mass produce moon rock before getting to that point?

Both of those require a lot more work and come off as end game rewards Wickerbottom is the lord of the moon in the first few days in most cases.

 

5 hours ago, Arcwell said:

True, hadn't thought of that! Though, wouldn't farming Celestial Champion be more efficient for glass, and hound waves more efficient for gems? I've never tried this method but I'd imagine mass-producing bath bombs would be a chore.

No actually champion is still takes time to fight as well as resources you get a ton of glass just by tossing bath bombs into all the ponds daily you'll have more glass than you know what to do with in a few days. While your not technically wrong that hounds could be more efficient when it comes to gem farming that's not till late game when other variants become a lot more common usually about 2 in game years meanwhile hot springs may only have a 20% chance of giving you gems but that's per hot spring and it's mainly a bonus on top of your glass farm. Also the crafting cost for bath bombs is actually quite cheap.

 

5 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I considered them, but I don't use them personally because of the time investment required for building and maintaining a farm. It's certainly strong once you get it going though, especially if you have a Wormwood on the team. I like to rush bosses/ruins in the first few seasons, it's hard to farm and do that without losing productivity on one or the other.

I don't know how true this is as I haven't tested it myself but I've heard her new expanded book actually tends to plants on all stages making guaranteed seeds if it's true a lot of the work goes out of window. 

[Cheggf]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Hard disagree recovering 50 sanity a day is child play compared to all the advantages the full moon brings.

Edit: Heck if a Wendy player makes a sisturn at base you've recovered it's entire cost in 2 minutes of waiting. 

Mobile light for 2 minutes (wonder if anything else that does that can be obtained day 1) is very strong because if you afk in the base for 2 minutes you get the sanity back. 

You guys are all exaggerating how good this is. Lanterns, bulbous light bugs, miner's hats, magis, etc are not hard to get and just about as good. 

[Copyafriend]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Mobile light for 2 minutes (wonder if anything else that does that can be obtained day 1) is very strong because if you afk in the base for 2 minutes you get the sanity back. 

You guys are all exaggerating how good this is. Lanterns, bulbous light bugs, miner's hats, magis, etc are not hard to get and just about as good. 

Forget the light, the “op” thing about this is the fact that its a full moon on command before the moonstorm. Theres more benefits to it than i care to list. 
 

which is why it needs to be expensive or require something from the moonstorm. Early game full moons are hugely important early game, thats a whole ass harvest of werepigs, or as much moonglass as you can carry repeatedly. I dont mind it being eventually doable because the moon storm literally exists. But it shouldn’t only cost 2 moon rocks

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Mobile light for 2 minutes (wonder if anything else that does that can be obtained day 1) is very strong because if you afk in the base for 2 minutes you get the sanity back. 

You guys are all exaggerating how good this is. Lanterns, bulbous light bugs, miner's hats, magis, etc are not hard to get and just about as good. 

Except light isn't the reason I consider it powerful in fact that's the most mild effect it has.

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

Early game full moons are hugely important early game, thats a whole ass harvest of werepigs

Which part of the werepig harvest is too strong? The meat which is already abundant regardless of their were status or the pigskin which you start the game with like 70 of? Maybe if you're on a pub with like 5 people who face tank literally every single enemy they see with a football helmet and weak weapon that would be a big boon but I don't think nerfing it because of that silly hypothetical makes sense. 

4 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

or as much moonglass as you can carry repeatedly.

Which moon glass craft are you worried about?