Why do people want Walani in DST?

[Cloakingsumo198]

9 minutes ago, Dextops said:

ahhhh, so then the only sailing character would be rendered useless at the sea. Amazing

Just because they would be more fragile than a boat? Goose can't even interact with anything at all does that make that form also useless?

Spoiler

Maybe.

I don't play woodie.

 

[skile]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I disagree, I actually use Walani a lot in Hamlet.. why? Because people underestimate the ability of having a portable water traveling device that you can pick up and replace down- 

If only hamlet had a cheap boat with this exact functionality.

if only. 

[Dextops]

17 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Just because they would be more fragile than a boat? Goose can't even interact with anything at all does that make that form also useless?

I would not consider woodie a sailing character because the only ocean thing he can interact with is the lunar island, and yes i do think woodie is on the lower side of characters, but for walani it would be the exact same thing for her which just adds more reasons not to add her. If her boat was fragile and you coded all mobs to attack her surfboard directly instead of her, then she wouldn't be able to engage in most content since most of it is mobs or has a lot of mobs and you'd end up running away a lot of the time

[user1464576869]

Ait but, for fun then. Here are some questionable ideas to throw in the hat, why not.
 
Walani can simply walk up to an edge to surf across automatically- using tools and equipment normally.
How about a craftable floaty thing which any survivor can use, like a lifewest but it's all silly and goes around the arms. The way they work is that you can barely swim with them but very very slowly. It's basically all just to get a second chance at deploying a new cookie boat or draw yourself to another one parked close by or something. Consumable I reckon.
Or that she could throw out life rings from the side of boats which "summon" in any survivors nearby that are about to drown.
Okay so this is really questionable but what if she could surf the caves void too- I mean anything that drops into the edge there makes a funny dark cloud puff kind of vfx. So, a bit weird but imagine shadowy waves or hands or something pushing the board up. Would be nice to get across those gaps as well. EDIT: Missed opportunity for "perhaps a bit far out dude"
 
Uh, ideally more land related things too but. Idk.

[Cloakingsumo198]

11 minutes ago, Dextops said:

If her boat was fragile and you coded all mobs to attack her surfboard directly instead of her, then she wouldn't be able to engage in most content since most of it is mobs or has a lot of mobs and you'd end up running away a lot of the time

Then use a boat and surfboard? The boat for fighting troublesome mobs and the surfboard for navigating once the area is clear since it would be smaller and faster for manuvering.

We could also forego the surfboard taking damage and just have walani get hurt.

Or surfboard kiting...

It's not impossible.

[Dextops]

7 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Then use a boat and surfboard? The boat for fighting troublesome mobs and the surfboard for navigating once the area is clear since it would be smaller and faster for manuvering.

We could also forego the surfboard taking damage and just have walani get hurt.

If it were her who would be taking damage it would be even worse because mobs jump on your boat to attack in which she would have no area to kite so either she'd have to run from encounters or get a death sentence.
and if she'd have to bring a boat with her there goes her only niche of supposedly being an early game sailor

[Cloakingsumo198]

26 minutes ago, Dextops said:

mobs jump on your boat

Don't some of the mobs already have an attack animation in the water? If they don't have one they could be given one... Even if it feels like asking for much ocean content is still being updated I think.

Can't you just sail away from the area they try to jump on? If they aren't immediately jumping again after a miss it shouldn't be impossible to kite.

26 minutes ago, Dextops said:

she'd have to bring a boat

She wouldn't "have" to bring a boat but it'd be good synergy since they'd serve different purposes since boats act like mobile bases and platforms.

She isn't barred from using them just because she has a surfboard.

[321bwa]

The surfboard doesn't have to have the same mechanics as the boat, where enemies can jump on your boat and you can walk around the area. The hitbox would ideally be like Goose Woodie.

There can be a risk vs reward thing with kiting on the surfboard in contrast to boat combat in the ocean. With a lower health pool but faster movement/turn speed, the surfboard would let her dip in and out of combat and gather resources more smoothly, in comparison to a higher health pool, repairable, but slower boat where you're in a restricted kiting range.

They could also update a few ocean mobs on how they interact with the surfboard differently than a boat.

She would be a niche pick if you want access to the ocean's resources/mobs faster or want to traverse the water often. Yes some mobs in the ocean would be easier as Walani if you're good at kiting, but that would be part of her strength as a ocean focused character, like how Wendy is good for swarm related feats.

That and how the surfboard is easily deployable without investing resources into building multiple boats would make her stand out from other characters.

EDIT: She would be one that could get certain resources that would otherwise be not worth the boat traversal/time investment, like barnacles, sun/bream/spittle fish, cookie cutter, etc. 

[Dextops]

41 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Don't some of the mobs already have an attack animation in the water? If they don't have one they could be given one... Even if it feels like asking for much ocean content is still being updated I think.

Can't you just sail away from the area they try to jump on? If they aren't immediately jumping again after a miss it shouldn't be impossible to kite.

Again, that wouldn't be kiting that'd just be you running away

 

42 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

She wouldn't "have" to bring a boat but it'd be good synergy since they'd serve different purposes since boats act like mobile bases and platforms.

She isn't barred from using them just because she has a surfboard.

I feel we are getting off topic from my main point but also, All suggestions either break her niche, break ocean mechanics, and/or make a supposed sailing character horrible at sailing

 

18 minutes ago, 321bwa said:

She would be a niche pick if you want access to the ocean's resources/mobs faster or want to traverse the water often. Yes some mobs in the ocean would be easier as Walani if you're good at kiting, but that would be part of her strength as a ocean focused character, like how Wendy is good for swarm related feats.

It's not that they are easier it's that i don't see how they could work without adding a lot to the mobs themselves just so they work around a character who's niche already exists.

You can already make a boat very fast and it isn't too cost intensive. Waterlogged also made boats go a heck of a lot faster. A character where their one and only niche is based around sailing fast when it's a niche that isn't needed just doesn't make sense especially when they'd be immune to dangers while still being able to fight back and/or just being killed by everything, because unluckily a rock jaw jumped on your boat and you have no way of kiting it or a grass gator jumped on your board and again you have no way of kiting it.

[321bwa]

22 minutes ago, Dextops said:

You can already make a boat very fast and it isn't too cost intensive.

It's roughly 44+ wood and other resources to dedicate towards a standard boat that can be sailed further than the shore to explore/gather resources (if you want to go faster, that's more wood and resources for another sail). Having a fast surfboard upon spawning in can leave ocean content exclusively to Walani in the early days, which can be fun.

The advantage that the surfboard would have is also turn speed and kiting potential. That's a great advantage an ocean based character can have when comparing it to the other characters' advantages.

Again, there's a lot of unique resources that are rarely sought out for in the ocean in the early to mid game that a ocean traversal character would be able to access relatively easily without too much time/resource investment. That's a good enough niche for me.

22 minutes ago, Dextops said:

unluckily a rock jaw jumped on your boat and you have no way of kiting it or a grass gator jumped on your board and again you have no way of kiting it.

 

22 minutes ago, Dextops said:

It's not that they are easier it's that i don't see how they could work without adding a lot to the mobs themselves just so they work around a character who's niche already exists.

I agree that they'd have to do a large rework for mobs just for interactions with her surfboard, but that's expected if they ever chose to bring Walani into DST without it being just a lazy direct port. The mobs wouldn't be able to jump on the surfboard if your hitbox works like the Goose where only direct attacks work.

[Cloakingsumo198]

28 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Snip

Running away is a part of kiting...

Surfing isn't like sailing.

I don't wish to engage in mental gymnastics with you to explain this.

Spoiler

 

[Dextops]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Running away is a part of kiting...

Yes, you're right it is, but when all you do is run then at that point it isn't kiting

 

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Surfing isn't like sailing.

which is a problem when dst's oceans are based off of sailing on the cookie boat

 

9 minutes ago, 321bwa said:

I agree that they'd have to do a large rework for mobs just for interactions with her surfboard, but that's expected if they ever chose to bring Walani into DST without it being just a lazy direct port. The mobs wouldn't be able to jump on the surfboard if your hitbox works like the Goose where only direct attacks work.

IMO at that point it'd be better to add someone like woodlegs or an entirely new sailing character since i feel like they'd be able to fit the niche of a sailing character a lot better, and interact with the content a lot better than walanis surfboard could

[Cloakingsumo198]

5 minutes ago, Dextops said:

woodlegs

They should add both.

Woodlegs for the cookie boats and walani for her surfboard.

5 minutes ago, Dextops said:

sailing on the cookie boat

Why can't surfing work as character specific feature? Surfing and sailing exist in the real world together.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Why can't surfing work as character specific feature?

Because as i've stated multiple times before dst's oceans aren't built around it, and I don't think i like the idea of changing a lot of ocean mobs ai just for a character who is a wilson for sailing.

 

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

They should add both.

Woodlegs for the cookie boats and walani for her surfboard.

It wouldn't work out because you would no longer need to work for woodlegs and they are just the better sailing character in everyway and would take much less work to port imo

[Cloakingsumo198]

6 minutes ago, Dextops said:

ocean mobs ai

So do ocean mobs just not fight each other because they aren't on boats? And what about goose does it not draw agro from the ocean mobs either?

Spoiler

I don't mean to be sarcastic I don't sail much because it still feels barren nor do I use woodie.

 

11 minutes ago, Dextops said:

you would no longer need to work for woodlegs

People don't work for Maxwell or Wes either...

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

So do ocean mobs just not fight each other because they aren't on boats? And what about goose does it not draw agro from the ocean mobs either?

I have not played woodie in a while but i do not think mobs agro to him nor hit him in anyway(except for something like crab king freeze) but i'd need to get a fact check on that, and i haven't seen enough rockjaws to see if they attack something like a gnawhale because if i see both in the same general location im buying a lottery ticket right after.

[321bwa]

I just think a ocean related character that can quickly access and navigate the ocean without much hassle would be great to have.

Walani is the easiest one to think to fit into this role because she's already implemented in Shipwrecked with a unique enough method of traversal when compared to boats. If Woodlegs was given a fast, easy to navigate and deploy Sea Legs with much more upgrades than the current boat? I would advocate that instead.

It would still require a large amount of time/effort to code in more interactions with DST's ocean content and her surfboard, that I can agree on. They can give her a few more craftables/quirks to make her stand out more than just a sailing Wilson, but the early access to ocean content makes her stand out far more.

I don't agree that her being put into DST is near impossible, it's just that it would require a large investment of time and resources in giving her unique interactions with the ocean, especially coming after well thought out characters/game changing mechanics like Wanda.

[grm9]

33 minutes ago, 321bwa said:

but the early access to ocean content makes her stand out far more.

All characters can access ocean early, getting a science machine and eight boards isn't that hard, you know.

[321bwa]

16 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

All characters can access ocean early, getting a science machine and eight boards isn't that hard, you know.

Have fun doing that at a snail's pace

[UbiAnomaly]

3 minutes ago, 321bwa said:

Have fun doing that at a snail's pace

For reference, one boat and oar at the minimum costs 1 gold, 4 rocks, 37 logs, and the materials for a few axes or a golden axe.

You can get all of those materials in the first few days, so if your primary goal is ocean content, then it is in no way something you would be doing at a "snail's pace".

[321bwa]

I guess this just goes to me just being impatient with sailing in general where others are fine with as is.

Sorry, I might be just rambling at this point. I don't usually have the time/bother to go for ocean content in the first year or so, can't justify my arguments further.

[grm9]

10 hours ago, 321bwa said:

Have fun doing that at a snail's pace

You can do it before first dusk or at least before first night, lol. Maybe will take a bit longer if you aren't Wolfgang/Maxwell/Woodie for chopping trees a bit faster, but still shouldn't take as much as you seem to think.

[archidus]

On 6/6/2022 at 11:24 AM, Eughstein said:

literally whole reason why we have dst boats being circles is devs wanting to make a boat mechanic that isn't walking with extra steps, because it's what it is in sw, walking with extra steps

While I understand and respect that, I really don't feel like having a single character who bypasses that and can just 'waterwalk' and collect stuff from the ocean would be all that bad. Some people are already saying it's not even that good of a thing because the ocean can be 'lacking', but I don't know, if you're able to quickly get to a salt formation or, heck, anywhere you want that's got an ocean in the middle of the way, then I think that's a very useful perk. Not everything can (or should) be fixed by just having a bunch of boats lined up to look like a bridge.... And to give her some disadvantages in exchange for that, well, again I think the surfboard having 1 HP would be perfect to balance things out, so that there's still a big risk/big reward thing going on. Oh and definitely give her surfboard the decaying durability from SW, we don't want that lazy girl to be forever surfing and not doing anything else!

On 6/6/2022 at 12:17 PM, Eughstein said:

even if you do speedrun ocean content as walani like lunar island or pearl to help your team you still won't be very useful after that, and especially in caves

You got a point there, but that's pretty much what I meant by "use Walani as a base and give her some extra flavor to fit the DST world a bit better". I'm not exactly sure what that would be, maybe just give her (and specifically her) more reason to explore the seas, maybe collect stuff like Wendy does with her flowers, to craft things that can be useful anywhere. I don't know, stuff like bioluminescent algae that can be turned into a glow-in-the-dark oil which Walani can apply on herself to mimic the effects of eating glowfruit but without the sanity penalty. Dumb, I know, but it was just an example, all DST characters are getting character-specific crafts so why not give her something unique too other than the surfboard. That lotion for example could be useful for nighttime surfing or spelunking. She could also craft a bunch of other things, which would also help give her more personality - something like lucky charms.

 

Anyways again I have no particular reason to want to see her in DST. I'm just trying to throw out ideas for an ocean-themed character and what I *really* would like is to have a bit more mobility while traversing the ocean and Walani's surfboard would be just perfect for that... Quoting someone else, I just think it's a neat feature to have.

 

[Zerobillion]

While I personally couldn't care less about Walani being added or not, some of the points being made on this thread are very weird. 

First of all let me begin with the whole ocean mechanic thing. A surfboard would basically just function as a smaller, more maneuverable and portable boat. What is the issue with that? DST's ocean mechanics would work just fine with that.

On 6/6/2022 at 3:11 PM, Dextops said:

Because as i've stated multiple times before dst's oceans aren't built around it, and I don't think i like the idea of changing a lot of ocean mobs ai just for a character who is a wilson for sailing.

  

On 6/5/2022 at 11:23 PM, Dextops said:

mike i gotta ask, but have you ever actually sailed in dst's ocean? Because either way if walani would be as you describe her she would be so utterly useless that a regular wilson would sail better than she does and there'd be no reason to add her other than as an aesthetic character (glorified way of being a skin) , or she breaks all of dsts ocean mechanics cause it isn't built around shipwrecked boats in any single way lemme list things out and correct me if i am wrong
-Grass gators are massive and jump on your boat to attack
-waterspiders jump on your boat and you'd need a cookie boat to kite them
-rockjaws are massive and jump on your boat and you'd a cookie boat to kite them
-cookie cutters jump on your boat and make holes so if she couldn't repair it she'd be screwed
-crab king has absolutely no way of attacking walani if it wasn't a cookie
The surfboard can not be fixed in any way imaginable imo and if you have an idea for it without removing it entirely i'd like to see it

 

On 6/5/2022 at 11:35 PM, Dextops said:

problem would be it'd be nigh undodgable so i don't see the point of adding the character when cookie boats are easy to make. I have no coding experience or anything of the sorts so i have no idea how much work it'd take to add new animations and stuff like that to make it so they could just hit her directly on water so i can't speak on that, but i know the work is not nothing.

You've mentioned multiple times about mobs not working well with the surfboard. But a 10 second wiki search debunks everything.

And since the norm seems to be to make baseless arguments and not actually test anything, I tested being Woodie as well as walking on water with godmode.

Grass gators, Sea striders, and Rockjaws all already can and will attack both weregoose Woodie and any character not on a boat for whatever reason.  Crab King's main attack is summoning geysers in the water, why the hell would riding on a surfboard suddenly make you magically immune to that? That makes no sense at all. DST's ocean mechanics work just fine with things that don't involve a boat and rectifying whatever few edge cases there may be wouldn't be nearly as difficult as you try to make it out to be. Adding a surfboard to the game wouldn't break anything, everyone seriously needs to stop using this as an argument, there's no validity in it at all.

 

Now in terms of balance, everyone loves to say she will just be a Wilson, but any mention of her having useful perks is then said to be breaking the game. Having access to easier and better sea travel would be far from useless. Yea, every character can easily get a boat kit, but every character can also easily get a science machine. (even earlier than you would get a boat in fact) Does that make Wickerbottom's early science perk worthless? Wigfrid's battle helm is just an easier to obtain and better football helmet, Willow's lighter is just a better torch, Woodie is a better axe, etc. And having a character who can facilitate significantly easier ocean content wouldn't break the game either. Wendy trivializes 90% of the games combat related content as Abigail can commit genocide on entire spider colonies, bees, frog rain, pengulls, and basically everthing else besides bosses and shadow creatures, while the player just sits there to give her moral support basically.

If simply being good at ocean stuff isn't interesting, why are we implying that she can't simply get other perks? Wigfrid's refresh didn't rework her at all because her design was perfect as is, they added battle songs to give her something more interesting than just "Me fight enemy". Obviously, porting a character over wouldn't just leave her exactly as she is now. Wormwood was a ported character from Hamlet, his main thing is farming yet DST's farming mechanics are entirely different from single player Don't Starve, they merely adapted his perks to work with the new system, no reason why Walani can't be refined to fit into the game as well. 

[Mike23Ua]

There was ALOT of people wanting Wurt to get the Ability to swim.. Which lets just be honest, would simply be a cleverly reskinned version of Walani and Surfing.

I see no reason why if Walani got added to the game, Wurt couldn’t be allowed to swim as well.

Klei has lately been going back and revisiting old characters, if an update can benefit/hinder a character: It will..

Examples being recent Wurt/Wormwood changes.