The many ways of playing this game.

[DVGMedia]

So I don't really understand this. Like me as a player of this game I really enjoy the mechanical skill of kiting.

I feel that to say you are truely good at the game you should be able to survive while using the least amount of items
Because if you were to give some one items to aid in survival then of course they will have an easier time at doing so

I get many comments saying Oh this is super easy if you just do this. Then they proceed to describe a tanking method to deal with the problem.
LIke yeah  You can do it that way It requires less mechanical skill, but yes you can solve the problem that way.

Don't starve is a game that starts hard because you don't know a lot. But, progressively gets easier as you figure out how to do things.

Everyone is allowed to play the game how they like, LIke if a person wants to do that then yeah ill let them do that.
But I just want to show people how to get better at the game.  At least in my vision. Which ties more to mechanical skill  Vs Just spamming items.

Spoiler is just a conversation I had That made me think of this post.

It also opens up another can of worms Suggesting how easy it can be to get materials. Just cause you can potentially get materials easily  does that mean you should use them? 

There is always going to be multiple options and ways to do the same thing in this game So its interesting to see other options.
However When people get steadfast saying their way is better.
It kind of makes it hard to grow in the game.
 

Spoiler

DSTPlayer1234

6 days ago

Just use campfire, hambat, 2 parogi, full marble armor and a battle helm, or 2 foot ball helmets . Its easy when you can't freeze to death

DvgGaming

2 days ago

Yeah I have heard a few people say it like that. But why take damage in the first place and not use those materials.

DSTPlayer1234

2 days ago

 @DvgGaming  because it's easy to get those materials and food items. Once you know how easy it is to get the materials life in the game is so easy. Plus tanking dearclops is faster then kiting also warm fire incase you get cold. But then again I'm prepared for every fight

DvgGaming

5 minutes ago (edited)

 @DSTPlayer1234 Yeah that is true. Its possible to always have the resources necessary for any fight. I think however its best to show the minimal amount of resources that you can use for a fight. in the video it shows this method So that people that want to challenge themselves have an easier time taking out the boss. every character can do that and it just boils down to the mechanical skill of it.

 

[jan Mele]

9 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Don't starve is a game that starts hard because you don't know a lot. But, progressively gets easier as you figure out how to do things.

And this is why I don't think DST is much of an action game. That and the rudimentary combat. The biggest to a reaction challenge this game has is the fuelweaver fight

Although you can spend less time preparing if you dodge

Beating claus with no items probably isn't much faster than with a ham bat, but the latter is way more consistent

[SonicDen220]

Just use campfire star caller staff, hambat thulecite club, 2 parogi 0 healing items, full marble armor and a battle helm full thulecite armor, or 2 foot ball helmets 2 bone armors . Its easy when you can't freeze to death

[Faintly Macabre]

You're forgetting that depending on several factors, kiting can actually be unreliable or overly precise.

Also, the video you're talking about is actually labeled "The Fastest Method To Kill Him," which is kind of a dubious claim that kind of invited rebuttal. Preparation time aside (which may be negligible since the things the other person's strategy requires are things people are very likely to have on hand anyway), it is undeniably faster to tank'n'spank Deerclops than to dodge.

Also, you may enjoy kiting, but a lot of people find it boring or repetitive.

As for what makes someone truly good at the game: videos where somebody kills something nasty in their underwear are impressive, but those exploits in and of themselves don't make them "truly good at the game" (though they may well be). They just make them good at dodging. The game mercifully has a lot more depth than 2 hits, out, 2 hits, out...

[DVGMedia]

9 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

You're forgetting that depending on several factors, kiting can actually be unreliable or overly precise.

Also, the video you're talking about is actually labeled "The Fastest Method To Kill Him," which is kind of a dubious claim that kind of invited rebuttal. Preparation time aside (which may be negligible since the things the other person's strategy requires are things people are very likely to have on hand anyway), it is undeniably faster to tank'n'spank Deerclops than to dodge.

Also, you may enjoy kiting, but a lot of people find it boring or repetitive.

As for what makes someone truly good at the game: videos where somebody kills something nasty in their underwear are impressive, but those exploits in and of themselves don't make them "truly good at the game" (though they may well be). They just make them good at dodging. The game mercifully has a lot more depth than 2 hits, out, 2 hits, out...

Yeah kiting can be unreliable just cause of ping (however a player can compensate for ping that is consistent) Overly precise would be maybe needing a cane to avoid beequeen need to stop in place and move away right as queen attacks But I'm guessing you mean precise in that the method is always the same?
I labeled this the fastest method to kill deerclops because this is a method you can do right as you spawn in a world Granted that would usually never happen unless you join winter world right at day 30 and everyone leaves Majority of the time the player would have time to prepare for the fight

I called it the fastest method because it is the fastest method (for no damage and drops) It all depends on what the player wants
The ultimate fastest method timewise for disposing of deerclops would be just to ignite 20 gunpowder and lead him into it for a one shot But you lose the drops in the process

The second fastest method would be to tank with a campfire and armor using all warly buffs and dclops is wet Third is normal tanking without buffs And 4th is kiting

But if you look at all these they are all different requiring different things to complete the same goal Gun powder is undeniably the fastest way to kill anything but it's destructive itself and will destroy any drops from mobs that are not fire proof The reason why tanking is touted as the fastest is because you also get your drops but you are also expected to be prepared for the fight before hand and yeah its not much to sacrifice to get the fastest time but you still had to sacrifice something being health and sanity (this is where the argument comes in)

 

I however am speaking to people who like to do minimalist strats. Taking the least amount possible to do a task. So yes the method I mentioned is the fastest for that way of playing. Is it the fastest outright? No its not. But that all depends how you want to see it. I would like to compare it to speed runs
Most speed runners are the best at playing the game they know the ins and outs to play the game at the most optimal level to get the fastest times Granted don't starve is a niche speed run game with the game having a built in timer and random elements The best players would be able to adapt to all situations But also use the least amount of stuff needed to accomplish adapting.

And just like any speed run players can choose how to play the game Whether they want to take full advantage of everything or try to do the least possible. It's up to the player to decide

[kirihime]

play pubs

[Faintly Macabre]

3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

snip

No, when I say overly precise, I mean that if your timing's even a little off, like you stepped out just a bit too far, or one of the many quirks we've been having to deal with over the last few patches slows one of your attacks down, you might take a hit on the chin. If this happens a couple too many times and you didn't come prepared to take damage, you're dead. If you're prepared to take damage, why not sit a campfire down and just get it done?

If you personally don't want to play that way, that's fine, but I don't see why it should come as any shock that many people would prefer methods that are quicker and involve less variables. (Re: gunpowder: you can use just slightly less gunpowder than needed to OHKO the boss and wait to kill until the fire goes out, and still get all your drops)

And bringing up speedrunners is kind of stepping on your own toes, because if a little prep and a no-brain strategy can save them even a fraction of a second, they'll do it every time. Also, the top end of speedrunners may be masters of their games, but the speedrunning community is much bigger than its top end, and below the top end lots of people who speedrun are only adept at specific tricks because they're just following somebody else's found routes and those tricks are all they need to know.

[Guille6785]

there's like 1 dst speedrunner

[DVGMedia]

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Spoiler

No, when I say overly precise, I mean that if your timing's even a little off, like you stepped out just a bit too far, or one of the many quirks we've been having to deal with over the last few patches slows one of your attacks down, you might take a hit on the chin. If this happens a couple too many times and you didn't come prepared to take damage, you're dead. If you're prepared to take damage, why not sit a campfire down and just get it done?

If you personally don't want to play that way, that's fine, but I don't see why it should come as any shock that many people would prefer methods that are quicker and involve less variables. (Re: gunpowder: you can use just slightly less gunpowder than needed to OHKO the boss and wait to kill until the fire goes out, and still get all your drops)

And bringing up speedrunners is kind of stepping on your own toes, because if a little prep and a no-brain strategy can save them even a fraction of a second, they'll do it every time. Also, the top end of speedrunners may be masters of their games, but the speedrunning community is much bigger than its top end, and below the top end lots of people who speedrun are only adept at specific tricks because they're just following somebody else's found routes and those tricks are all they need to know.

 

its all semantics
Where it can be explained a million different ways And there is never always going to be the same thing.
heck I wear an armor just in case I take damage. Because no one is perfect.
But like at least try dodging
instead of just sitting there and take it.
you never get better at something untill you practice it and get the muscle memory in.

also the fact you are tearing apart my theoreticals shows something.
Like of course you can just leave out 1 gunpowder and wait for the fire damage to subside to get what you want from a boss.


also you denoted speedrunners here .Speed running requires a notion of mechanical skill.
like yeah there is routing to make things consistent however the player still needs to be able to perform those tricks that are near to usually frame perfect.

""And bringing up speedrunners is kind of stepping on your own toes, because if a little prep and a no-brain strategy can save them even a fraction of a second, they'll do it every time"' Honestly that may be the case sometimes.
but like in this case try spawning into a world first day and immediately fight clops.
yeah you can secure victory if you do some prep but only the best forgo that and go for the highest.
even if its not consistent Look at 16 star mario 64 and you will see what I mean about consistent vs inconsistent in speedrunning.

But thats not the point I'm trying to even talk about.
.
The main point is
I shared a different way to do something in the game and the main responses I get are "I'd rather just do this"
and im just like Cool Do your thing This will be here if you want to try it.

and thats kind of just it really What I don't understand 
its a common thing people usually have good intentions when they talk
and people can only speak of their own experience

It just really sucks when some one is saying I have a a problem and then another person comes and says "I don't have that problem."
It  just doesn't really help

 

[kirihime]

it's a game of time management, resource management, general knowledge, adaptability, and mechanical skill
you can certainly enjoy one of these things more than the others, but you aren't doing the game any favours by reducing it to just that

yes, you can spawn deerclops with the console and kite him on day 1
deerclops does not spawn on day 1, he spawns on day 30, at night, during the middle of winter, it's dark, you've got cold to contend with, he'll quickly drive you insane, and you have had time to gather resources and prepare, not to mention the game doesn't end and other pressures you're facing don't go away after he's gone.

DST is a sandbox game, there's always going to be far more at play than just a monster's attack and the player moving backwards a short distance to avoid it
most players are not speedrunners and i doubt most even care about speedrunning

i wasn't being facetious when i suggested playing pubs
when you join a pub it's probably already the middle of a different season, there's probably a bit of lag, many resources are likely already gone, and there's all sorts of fun surprises from abandoned alchemy engines to abandoned vargs. At the very least, you aren't getting the Eyebrella. Being able to adapt to those scenarios and come out on top says far more to me about your skill at this game than your simple ability to speedrun in a solo world, or to spawn a boss in via the console and fight it.

the core concept for DS was a survival game where the player was weak and where most things you'd be facing would be outside your control

[Pinkamena11FazP]

I just use DST to roleplay on lol.

[Faintly Macabre]

22 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

But like at least try dodging
instead of just sitting there and take it.
you never get better at something untill you practice it and get the muscle memory in.

What if I don't want to get better at that? I find it boring, sometimes fickle, and not that rewarding.

23 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

also the fact you are tearing apart my theoreticals shows something.

Are you going to reveal what that supposedly is? Because most people just call that "debate."

26 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

also you denoted speedrunners here .Speed running requires a notion of mechanical skill.

If what you meant was that I demeaned speedrunners, then no, I did not. I contended that speedrunners is a bigger group than the technical masters that are the names everyone knows, and that (taking the community as a whole and not just the 1%) people who can perform some sequence breaks or abuse weirdness like strange conditional physics behavior don't all belong on a pedestal as the best of the best. I know and can perform some small-window tricks and sequence breaks and physics abuse in some of the games I play; it does not make me a master of those games.

33 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

yeah you can secure victory if you do some prep but only the best forgo that and go for the highest.

You missed the point: sometimes the prep is going for the highest.

And you didn't just share "a different way to do something". You called it the fastest way to do something. No qualifiers, no nothing. You invited (valid) criticism of your method. And even if we put those "semantics" (which despite the disdain people have for them sometimes matter) aside, in one breath you're claiming "everybody has a different way to do things and that's okay" and in the next you're putting everybody who doesn't want to bother kiting beneath you. It's not consistent. That's the problem.

[DVGMedia]

3 hours ago, kirihime said:

play pubs

I read your other post and yeah that is a thing I do. the world is in a harder state than on day one usually.
Everything I have said is in a vacuum
and doesn't exist in  standard game play.  but like everything there are always different ways to approach challenges.
I just wanted to share mine and it shows everyone else decided to share theirs

 

[Owlrust]

I got tired of doing anything the most optimal way, too repetitive and felt more like a chore that required a lot of planning and good rng. Now I just go at my own pace and deal with whatever problem as it happens, and be okay with dying every so often.

'Been happier ever since.

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Faintly Macabre said:

What if I don't want to get better at that? I find it boring, sometimes fickle, and not that rewarding.

 

 

Everything I said is in a vacuum 
you can choose to play how you want.
This wasn't supposed to be a debate.
just trying to figure why people respond with an argument vs just seeing whats shown.

[Faintly Macabre]

3 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

This wasn't supposed to be a debate.
just trying to figure why people respond with an argument vs just seeing whats shown.

Sometimes explanation requires challenging what people (at least seem to) think they know. And this wasn't technically a debate until you engaged me.

People want to discuss stuff. They want to challenge ideas. You might think the guy who commented on your video was just being a jerk (and being real, that was probably part of it), but he probably thinks that his way just actually is better, and sharing that way will improve the experience of people who watched your video. And while it's not purely, objectively true, there's an argument to be made for that!

[00petar00]

33 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

What if I don't want to get better at that? I find it boring, sometimes fickle, and not that rewarding.

I don't understand how you don't see how big reward is there if you kite and don't use a lot of healing food and armor. While it is fine to tank and your choice, the reward is there in the resources you save and can use in another fight.

I am not saying that anyone should go unprepared, for example i always bring 2 night armor for dragonfly as i usually only use less then 100% of one in the fight but i might need to use 2 if start playing badly compared to how i do normally.

There might be ping problems and if i have a high ping on a server, i'll use cheese strategies to kill bosses at that point instead of tanking.

[Faintly Macabre]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't understand how you don't see how big reward is there if you kite and don't use a lot of healing food and armor.

I keep healing food and armor around. I often have more than strictly needed to survive, and accruing them happens largely as a matter of course. They have no value if I don't use them.

It's not that complicated.

[DVGMedia]

19 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

And you didn't just share "a different way to do something". You called it the fastest way to do something. No qualifiers, no nothing. You invited (valid) criticism of your method. And even if we put those "semantics" (which despite the disdain people have for them sometimes matter) aside, in one breath you're claiming "everybody has a different way to do things and that's okay" and in the next you're putting everybody who doesn't want to bother kiting beneath you. It's not consistent. That's the problem.

I never really wanted to argue
it  is technically the fastest way to do that specific task  if you want to do it without taking damage. Is it the Theoretical fastest way No
There is a intention to mislead there It is done so intentionally so that people would click the video and interact with it.

I never put anyone below me What I questioned was that I just don't understand why a person would not want to try and develop some mechanical skills.

That answer can vary person to person.
like you said. What if I don't want to?
Thats fine and you are valid to think like that.

My thoughts on how to do a specific task may only be taken by a few people.

And that is why the topic of this thread is called The many ways to play this game. Alot of times there is strife here on the forums
nothing but arguments and ego stroking.

Ive been in this game since strange new powers and there are things I still learn about it and I just want to learn more the reasoning behind why people do certain things.
Since I know I Do things differently.
 

 

[00petar00]

2 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I keep healing food and armor around. I often have more than strictly needed to survive, and accruing them happens largely as a matter of course. They have no value if I don't use them.

It's not that complicated.

You are taking into consideration megabase worlds or the ones where you have at least a few hundreds of days in where you have bundled healing food and stacks of jellybeans, most players don't ever play that much and conserving resources in a fight is really helpful usually.

[DVGMedia]

20 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Sometimes explanation requires challenging what people (at least seem to) think they know. And this wasn't technically a debate until you engaged me.

People want to discuss stuff. They want to challenge ideas. You might think the guy who commented on your video was just being a jerk (and being real, that was probably part of it), but he probably thinks that his way just actually is better, and sharing that way will improve the experience of people who watched your video. And while it's not purely, objectively true, there's an argument to be made for that!

Yeah That is true.
Anyone who provides Their thoughts and Opinions Usually have Good Intent on their mind.
But commonly its hard to engage in a good discussion about opposing thoughts because usually  one side goes on the defensive or emotions begin to rise. This is because like you said It challenges the beliefs of a person.


I may have engaged more aggressively in  This post I want to promote good healthy discussions.

And, I personally want to push more for more engaging discussions here on the forums. However there still is remnants of the old days where there were metas and the big three and one of the more popular dst players was a toxic person and it kind of leeched into the community.

Thank you though for the conversation.

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

What if I just half dodge half tank?

[Faintly Macabre]

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You are taking into consideration megabase worlds or the ones where you have at least a few hundreds of days in where you have bundled healing food and stacks of jellybeans, most players don't ever play that much and conserving resources in a fight is really helpful usually.

I don't megabase, and it doesn't take hundreds of days to get a couple pig skins, some rope, and the ingredients for a couple servings of pierogi. These are pretty basic things any half-experienced player attempts to have some small stock of.

23 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

However there still is remnants of the old days where there were metas and the big three and one of the more popular dst players was a toxic person and it kind of leeched into the community.

What, you don't think the Tam is the worst item in the game, backpacks are sin, and you should do everything completely insane? Pfft. Casual.

Spoiler

Big, honkin' /s there, in case it's not obvious.

 

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I don't megabase, and it doesn't take hundreds of days to get a couple pig skins, some rope, and the ingredients for a couple servings of pierogi. These are pretty basic things any half-experienced player attempts to have some small stock of.

What, you don't think the Tam is the worst item in the game, backpacks are sin, and you should do everything completely insane? Pfft. Casual.

  Reveal hidden contents

Big, honkin' /s there, in case it's not obvious.

 

Having a couple of pig skins and some pierogi isn't really a time where tanking is a better choice and when we are discussing how good kiting is and how many resources it saves if you learn to do it properly.

It is completely up to you how you play the game but if we are talking about what is the best solution with minimum time investment, it is usually to kite.

I usually skip tam o shanter since i get enlightened crown but i still use sanity restoring items once i don't need to farm nightmare fuel that way also i use backpack and try to kill klaus in hope of getting krampus sack every winter until i do get it in that world since i really like gathering everything, playing without backpack doesn't suit me.

While true that i stay insane at the start as much as possible, especially since i play Wanda a lot and her alarming clock requires 8 nightmare fuel and shadow manipulator.

I don't speedrun the game, i just prefer playing somewhat efficiently.

[Faintly Macabre]

39 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is completely up to you how you play the game

Then why are we having this argument? What you started in on was very clearly marked as my experience and feeling. I find it boring. I find it not that (relativity, y'all) rewarding.

If you need to conserve resources or only want to expend the minimum amount of time and energy possible accruing only exactly what you need, then sure, you don't want to tank'n'spank. That seems self-evident. Not everybody needs or wants to play that way, though, so that's moot. It's not like I ever called Esai's information useless.

Not sure if you missed the spoiler bit or don't know what /s means, but none of that stuff about the Tam and all that was meant to be taken seriously. I was making a joke about some of the elitist people and ideas Esai was referring to.