Jump to content

Maybe too late for Wormwood ideas but I thought I'd try anyways


Recommended Posts

They are ordered from least important to most important. I hope some of these ideas are considered.

1. Greater speed increase while blooming; "Super Bloom"

A 30% speed increase seems more appropriate given it is the most defining perk in Wormwood kit. When you think Wormwood, you think blooming. The improved effect could also only undergo in certain scenarios (super growth formula/spring) and be dubbed "super bloom" (no need for an extra form either, though tiny green pollen releasing from his body would be appreciated).

(Reasoning)

Spoiler

20% speed increase isn't remarkable at all compared to other forms of speed in the game. When anyone thinks of Wormwood, his blooming is the most defining perk of all and yet it feels... Lacking. A 30% increase would feel far more capable and unique to Wormwood where kiting is invaluable. Out of any character he should have the most speed for the lowest trade off (aka growth formula). This can be balanced around only giving the highest speed from super growth formula only and in spring, or having this "super bloom" contained in spring only. 

2. A second tier of Compost wrap: Compost wrap+

A new green thumb item incorporating the current compost wrap in it's recipe. This helps Wormwood make greater use of every nitre (painfully) collected and allow the compost wrap growth as the gameplay progresses instead of at some point being instantly outclassed forever (*cough* Jelly beans *cough*). It also does not circumvent the time sink that is collecting nitre as it is balanced around the "limited healing" trope.

Recipe example but not my definite choice:

1 compost wrap + x amount of moon gleam + 1 sea weed

Perhaps it may also trigger "super bloom". The same art can also be recycled by changing the color of the wrap.

(Reasoning expanded) 

Spoiler

The compost wrap is mediocre compared to other types of healing available to Wormwood, such as the bat bat or jelly beans, but it does the job it's set up to do. Nitre, while a pain, is still manageable to obtain in large quantities when necessary. However, I find there is a noticeable gap in healing between the compost wrap, and it's greater counter part, jelly beans. This gap is usually filled by the bat bat, alone, but I think something more thematically appropriate can be created while also being in the same vein as the other healing over time items. A new tier of Compost wrap that allows Wormwood's green thumb exclusive to be important past it's middle tier role and supplement the bat bat. 

3. Further improving the Bramble Husk

I have made suggestions for it in the past and currently in the suggestions sub-forum about it triggering periodically while blooming. 

Spoiler

 

However, in an attempt to keep ideas new and fresh I propose an alternative simpler approaches. Increase the damage of the husk while Wormwood is blooming. Blooming and the bramble husk are a prime example of possible conflicting interests in Wormwood's kit. One promotes kiting and is assisted by the marble suit and night armor for a few mistakes. The other encourages tanking and is assisted by the thulecite crown. These two things should assist each other best no contest.

(Side note)

Spoiler

It's pretty sad that other characters with no healing dowsides will always tank better with this item. Since it was buffed it has become decent protective gear but the thorn effect remains niche for Wormwood.

4. Improving the Bramble Trap

I can't think of an alternative in this case other than to allow resetting somehow. Though I do wish it could last strike flying enemies such as bee queen and dragonfly. One has the powerful jelly beans which Wormwood makes great use of and the other has valuable gems that are a part of living log crafts. 

5. Has a unique interaction with the moon

Wormwood comes from the moon and yet there is 0 unique interactions with creatures influenced by the moon and enlightenment. There could be a new craft to replace the deleted poison balm that allows him and others a unique interaction with enlightenment. 

6. More plants that make a difference in Wormwood life

Sea weeds and lureplants are meh. I once had 3 lureplants burn to ash because of one fire hound, it was pretty funny. I don't miss their existence, they're not that great. Except for cheesing toadstool :p.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"5. Has a unique interaction with the moon

Wormwood comes from the moon and yet there is 0 unique interactions with creatures influenced by the moon and enlightenment. There could be a new craft to replace the deleted poison balm that allows him and others a unique interaction with enlightenment."

This x1000000!

I'm not sure what could be added but at least something. The Lunar isle and grotto should be reminiscent of home.

Perhaps Wormwood can sleep in this fully grown trees, for starters. Webber gets infinite tier 3 den uses. I have no other ideas lol sorry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a simple change such as: "When being worn by wormwood, bramble husk activates its AOE damage every 2-3 attacks" would go a long way for wormwood.

On 4/29/2022 at 4:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

4. Improving the Bramble Trap

I can't think of an alternative in this case other than to allow resetting somehow. Though I do wish it could last strike flying enemies such as bee queen and dragonfly. One has the powerful jelly beans which Wormwood makes great use of and the other has valuable gems that are a part of living log crafts. 

"Bramble Trap nearby a blooming wormwood resets itself after 2-3 seconds", also a small rooting effect of 0,25 to 0,5 seconds on enemies that step on them, just so they don't just run faster than the traps activates (hounds), it also avoids one fast enemy activating many traps and helps on getting enemy grouped so you can get value out of the AOE damage that differetiates Bramble trap from Tooth trap. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are 2 more QoLs, 3 more character reworks, and 3 “Setting the Stage” for what’s coming next updates scheduled for the current roadmap- I think now is the absolute best time to suggest changes/tweaks you want to see to characters.

And since WX78 has to wait for its charges to power up, the Wendy main in me misses the downtime cooldown Abigail had prior to her Rework: I’d love to see a Cooldown Timer on Abby again that can be lessened by having Sisturns built & fueled up.

This thread shouldn’t just be limited to Wormwood tweaks although I do have a pretty cool one in mind for him: Whenever you world is retro fitting in new content cave entrances and exits are blocked off by a neat visual vine effect of being inaccessible until retrofitting is completed..

I absolutely HATE Basing near a Plugged Sinkhole and someone comes along & bursts it open letting bats out every night.. it would be cool if Wormwood could use those same retro-fitting vines to Replug up an Unplugged sinkhole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would make me happy to see wormwood get a few more plant friends. Maybe even be able to reliably turn seeds into certain types, especially the weeds. And can use seeds to build unique trap structures. Some for binding. Some for causing temperature to raise causing damage over time (I'd really love to see a change to fire that isn't so destructive it's nearly almost always just avoided)... things like that. But after time they would rot. Or without a flingo the summer would burn them. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/29/2022 at 4:28 AM, Picklesaurus said:

I think a simple change such as: "When being woren by wormwood, bramble husk activates its AOE damage every 2-3 attacks" would go a long way for wormwood.

"Bramble Trap nearby a blooming wormwood resets itself after 2-3 seconds", also a small rooting effect of 0,25 to 0,5 seconds on enemies that step on them, just so they don't just run faster than the traps activates (hounds), it also avoids one fast enemy activating many traps and helps on getting enemy grouped so you can get value out of the AOE damage that differetiates Bramble trap from Tooth trap. 

Yeah me too to both suggestions, in this post I added a link to another thread in the suggestions sub-forum that mentioned them.

I didn't want to repeat myself so I made an alternative suggestion for the husk, but not for the trap. The traps resetting really is the best way to go about buffing them, so need for an alternative only if it's an alternative way to reset them. 

I think the traps should reset as soon as he walks over them or it can be a bit tricky. I do like your idea of activating the husk based on attacks made, that's a great idea I hadn't thought of before. Compared to automatic activation you get more control but it's also balanced in that you have to have to put yourself in harms way and attack. My only concern is whether or not Klei considers glitches as a part of the balance; animation cancelling would make the husk activate very quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/29/2022 at 2:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

1. Greater speed increase while blooming;

I mean i wouldnt complain but I certainly dont think this is necessary. 20% is a fine speed boost, and wormwood, despite how some people apparently view him, isnt a character based on speed or something. 

On 4/29/2022 at 2:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

A second tier of Compost wrap:

I would like this, but only as a healing option. I think itd make sense to combine the compost wrap with two compost and super growth formula to make ripened compost wrap that heals for 20 + 60 over time at the same rate as regular compost. Regular compost just needs to be applied too often for comfort, but it absolutely should be affordable, and it definitely shouldn’t compete with jellybeans, a raid boss drop.
 

On 4/29/2022 at 2:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

3. Further improving the Bramble Husk

Bramble husk is now a very strong offensive armor option. The only offensive armor to exist, providing AOE offensive capabilities. Its very strong now and actually competitive against a thulecite suit when dealing with hoards. 
to put it simply, its A tier armor now, putting most options to shame with its affordability and utility. Definitely needs no buffs.

On 4/29/2022 at 2:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

4. Improving the Bramble Trap

Once again its just not needed. Bramble traps do aoe, a damage type that is in very scarce supply. Splumonleys spiders and hounds are defeated often easier with bramble traps than traditional traps, while being very arguably more economical due to not needing a rope and using easy to amass bee stingers instead of hounds teeth, which could take a season or two to build up a respectable amount. No buff needed.

On 4/29/2022 at 2:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

5. Has a unique interaction with the moon

I mean sure, it could be a fun nod.

however i havent really seen a unique interaction suggested thats all that interesting or useful. No offense ofc. I say he blooms during full moons (and the storm obv) and be done with it. A fun nod but no game changer. Or maybe starts blooming a day or two before the full moon so that he is fully bloomed when the moon comes out. 
all im saying is he’s a plant, have him do plant stuff. Some plants bloom during the full moon i think? Itd have endgame uses, but mostly be a nod.

On 4/29/2022 at 2:55 AM, HowlVoid said:

6. More plants that make a difference in Wormwood life

Wormwood isnt a minion character.

more would be nice but he’s not supposed to be pulling wurt or webber level stuff with plants

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

I mean i wouldnt complain but I certainly dont think this is necessary. 20% is a fine speed boost, and wormwood, despite how some people apparently view him, isnt a character based on speed or something. 

I think he is.

His other abilities don't come into play quite as strongly as his speed, which is Paramount in any gameplay. Unless you tame a beefalo, there's no reason to not try and take advantage of being able to trigger blooming very early in the game. Blooming then strengthen all other aspects of himself in what ever action he decides to do.

Quote

I would like this, but only as a healing option. I think itd make sense to combine the compost wrap with two compost and super growth formula to make ripened compost wrap that heals for 20 + 60 over time at the same rate as regular compost. Regular compost just needs to be applied too often for comfort, but it absolutely should be affordable, and it definitely shouldn’t compete with jellybeans, a raid boss drop.

I disagree that it's only function should be healing.

If the compost wrap is to be improved it doesn't make sense for the blooming effect to not be improved also. There isn't a good reason why a character unique craft cannot compete with a boss drop. There are plenty of character crafts that compete and surpass every other item in the game with a similar effect. You forget in multiplayer jelly beans need to be shared amongst everyone in the server despite Wormwood needing them the most. His great reliance on an external item shouldn't be how character balance is done as that item may not always be present. 

The way compost works in the early game is fine, adding a late game component ensures balance. Killing crapking and unleashing a lunar storm is a lot more work than killing bee queen one's first year. There is a reason why it's unlocked in later stages of the game (requiring moon gleam). If allowed to heal 100 HP all it is doing is adding more value per nitre and is no stronger than 3 easy to aquire pierogie. If allowed to heal 5hp/per sec it wouldn't fall behind what can be done with healing salves. In the late game my wormwood only needs healing salves as they are autofarmable with bunnymen+spiders for quick emergency healing and jelly beans for supplementary healing. The compost wrap is easily left behind because if it's low healing over time and the application animation likely adding damage on top of that.

Similarly, with only 3 growth formula wormwood can be permanently blooming all year around as long they are constantly recycled. Blooming is already easy to maintain in later stages of the game once the bottle RNG (which is awful) has been overcome. Strengthening the compost wraps blooming abilities would not only strengthen it's relationship with wormwood but also be a crucial part of his kit as it should be. The improved compost wrap would do anything that isn't already possible in terms of maintaining blooming, it would instead offer more control over this property. Allowing him to skip tiers to quickly return to tier 3 after falling to tier 2 mid battle, offer a 3 day blooming period which is less that what a full use of growth formula  may supply (plus it's reusability), make them a good contender but still doesn't eclipse everything else.

Quote

Bramble husk is now a very strong offensive armor option. The only offensive armor to exist, providing AOE offensive capabilities. Its very strong now and actually competitive against a thulecite suit when dealing with hoards. 

to put it simply, its A tier armor now, putting most options to shame with its affordability and utility. Definitely needs no buffs.

My experience has been far different.

This isn't meant to strengthen the power of the bramble husk but strengthen it's relationship with Wormwood. The aoe effect is niche, and this could be a difference in play style, but I have never felt the urge to tank to take down simple spiders. 

When it comes to big bosses I prefer 95% protection armor in order to minimize the healing Wormwood will require. This becomes even more important against bosses like bee queen where tanking is almost inevitable. 

Due to the niche effect of the thorns it is B tier armor at best compared to marble suits and night armor, which are true A tier armor. 

What's more, other character like Wx-78 and Wigfrid who have internal ways to improve the armors effectiveness have a better synergy than Wormwood himself. There is no reason why this should be the case in my personal opinion. Simply increasing it's damage or allowing it to trigger every x seconds would wonderfully pare with the natural progression of blooming. The husks ability to provide damage would end fights quicker for himself and only himself, thus also mitigating damage in the long run. Taking down a spider should at least take 3 hits and not 5, these are mobs that become autofarmable later on in the game.

Quote

Once again its just not needed. Bramble traps do aoe, a damage type that is in very scarce supply. Splumonleys spiders and hounds are defeated often easier with bramble traps than traditional traps, while being very arguably more economical due to not needing a rope and using easy to amass bee stingers instead of hounds teeth, which could take a season or two to build up a respectable amount. No buff needed.

This is the most requested feature in the Wormwood poll.

I think you miss the point of what the biggest weakness of these traps is. They are annoying to manage in large amounts, they require a constant upkeep of living longs and far better option exist. There are literally unending mob spawners that kill enemies forever and need 0 upkeep. I won't argue about this further because it's a difference in personal preference, if you enjoy speeding x amount of time until the end of time resetting every single traps than cool, but not me.

Quote

 

Interactions with the moon I will leave up to Klei. There could be lore reasons why it isn't possible and for that I think doing more than suggesting a simple interaction is a lost cause.

Quote

Wormwood isnt a minion character.

more would be nice but he’s not supposed to be pulling wurt or webber level stuff with plants

I never said he was not did I suggested making him one.

If you've ever played him in Hamlet then you know what I'm talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

and wormwood, despite how some people apparently view him, isnt a character based on speed or something. 

If wormwood is not a character based on speed then nobody is… :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

If wormwood is not a character based on speed then nobody is… :lol:

My boi is a plant. He does plant things

wx currently is our speedster, as he was before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I think he is.

We can just agree to disagree. Wormwood does a lot other than speed. If you wanna play him for speed then thats noice.

 

I disagree that it's only function should be healing.

If the compost wrap is to be improved it doesn't make sense for the blooming effect to not be improved also.

makes perfect sense, ive never heard of a plant doing some kind of super bloom.

side note, do you know how i split the quote by hitting return?

my replies are in the quote itself because i was doinf this while waiting to be seated to eat

Quote

 

There isn't a good reason why a character unique craft cannot compete with a boss drop.

Theres a lot of good reason. Its a r a i d boss. Not only is it a raid boss, its pretty hard too. No other characters have items that replace raid boss loot unless im being forgetful. 

 

There are plenty of character crafts that compete and surpass every other item in the game with a similar effect.
 

uh? Which one?

 

You forget in multiplayer jelly beans need to be shared amongst everyone in the server despite Wormwood needing them the most.
 

Good thing that healing salve, honey poultice and batbats exist. Also compost wrap, its kinda slow to apply and needs reapplication often tho… oh well.

 

His great reliance on an external item shouldn't be how character balance is done as that item may not always be present. 
 

i did it again and im not sure how

simultaneously, he isnt reliant on jellybeans, i almost never kill the bee queen before i have something specific i want to use the beans on, so like year two minimum i just set up a bat farm and use batbats from killint dragonfly. Along with spiders and bunnys obv. The fights just too annoying. 

Quote

The way compost works in the early game is fine, adding a late game component ensures balance.

I absolutely 100% agree. How in is the ever. The compost wrap shouldn’t need the moon storm. Full stop. I also dont like that it uses nitre but I typically just make some while i have nitre, not get nitre to make some.

In my humble opinion, it’s completely and totally a bad idea to make wormwood reliant on what is a fairly disruptive world state. Also if we did give it an improved movement speed as a reward, it wouldn’t even be worth the trouble. Id probably just stick with super growth formula. 

Quote

 

Killing crapking and unleashing a lunar storm is a lot more work than killing bee queen one's first year. There is a reason why it's unlocked in later stages of the game (requiring moon gleam). If allowed to heal 100 HP all it is doing is adding more value per nitre and is no stronger than 3 easy to aquire pierogie.
 

i mean its main value is that its healing over time… kind of like jellybeans but weaker… hmmm…

 

If allowed to heal 5hp/per sec it wouldn't fall behind what can be done with healing salves. In the late game my wormwood only needs healing salves as they are autofarmable with bunnymen+spiders for quick emergency healing and jelly beans for supplementary healing. The compost wrap is easily left behind because if it's low healing over time and the application animation likely adding damage on top of that.

the triple return to split the quote is so inconsistent im furious

So you ARE aware you dont really need jellybeans?

 

Quote

Similarly, with only 3 growth formula wormwood can be permanently blooming all year around as long they are constantly recycled. Blooming is already easy to maintain in later stages of the game once the bottle RNG (which is awful) has been overcome. Strengthening the compost wraps blooming abilities would not only strengthen it's relationship with wormwood but also be a crucial part of his kit as it should be.
 

why does it need to be cruicial? I mean i dont like the bottle rng either but, compost wraps are just an annoying early game healing option. Thats how they’re intended id just like a use for them later on. 

Quote

The improved compost wrap would do anything that isn't already possible in terms of maintaining blooming, it would instead offer more control over this property. Allowing him to skip tiers to quickly return to tier 3 after falling to tier 2 mid battle, offer a 3 day blooming period which is less that what a full use of growth formula  may supply (plus it's reusability), make them a good contender but still doesn't eclipse everything else.

I mean. You get the three days when you bloom, you only extend the duration with growth formula

also i wont mention this from now on, just assume im trying to do it and just not bothering if it doesnt work

Quote

My experience has been far different.

This isn't meant to strengthen the power of the bramble husk but strengthen it's relationship with Wormwood. The aoe effect is niche, and this could be a difference in play style, but I have never felt the urge to tank to take down simple spiders. 
 

I dont tank spiders but it really makes them a nonissue. Two dens at once is not dangerous, if i get bit they take damage and i get breathing room. Bees are similar, it just removes any possibility of danger in some otherwise dangerous scenarios. Tentapillars on the other hand? 100% tank, **** hutch ive got hutch 5.0 on my chest.

Quote

When it comes to big bosses I prefer 95% protection armor in order to minimize the healing Wormwood will require. This becomes even more important against bosses like bee queen where tanking is almost inevitable. 
 

i mean fair, personally i prefer cheap armor, and trust that they wont kill me before i have a chance to heal. I normally dont bother with anything more expensive than football helmets unless the fight is bee queen or another boss where i may well need some serious protection. (Cc)

Quote

Due to the niche effect of the thorns it is B tier armor at best compared to marble suits and night armor, which are true A tier armor. 
 

marble suits and night armor are hard to make and have great protection, with a downside

bramble husk is cheap and has good protection good durability and an additional effect.

b tier is football helmet for me, but you do you.

Quote

What's more, other character like Wx-78 and Wigfrid who have internal ways to improve the armors effectiveness have a better synergy than Wormwood himself. There is no reason why this should be the case in my personal opinion.

and I completely disagree on this being some sort of necessity. Wormwood doesnt have to be the best at using what he makes, hes the only one who can make it, everyone needs a wormwood if they want it. Wx isnt better than wormwood at using it either, he just has a similar ability that kind of stacks. But really if you’re trying to abuse that as wx you probably should just use marble armor because the shock is way stronger than the brambles burst and doesnt rely on either character swapping or having a second player using a specific character.

Quote

Simply increasing it's damage or allowing it to trigger every x seconds would wonderfully pare with the natural progression of blooming. The husks ability to provide damage would end fights quicker for himself and only himself, thus also mitigating damage in the long run. Taking down a spider should at least take 3 hits and not 5, these are mobs that become autofarmable later on in the game.

again, i just fully disagree. Its an item he can craft, doesnt mean he needs some forced synergy. 

Quote

This is the most requested feature in the Wormwood poll.

I think you miss the point of what the biggest weakness of these traps is. They are annoying to manage in large amounts, they require a constant upkeep of living longs and far better option exist. There are literally unending mob spawners that kill enemies forever and need 0 upkeep. I won't argue about this further because it's a difference in personal preference, if you enjoy speeding x amount of time until the end of time resetting every single traps than cool, but not me.

i mean yeah everyone would love if traps reset themselves. Itd be really nice.

still doesnt mean the bramble traps need it, or deserve it, they’re already arguably stronger than the traditional traps while being arguably cheaper. Its plenty of reason for them to exist. Resetting them is the downside of traps, that and the cost. Disagree if you want, thats just how i see it

Quote

Interactions with the moon I will leave up to Klei. There could be lore reasons why it isn't possible and for that I think doing more than suggesting a simple interaction is a lost cause.

i mean, maybe there’s a lore reason? Idk man i just think they didn’t give him one because he isnt moon themed he’s just a plant bro

Quote

I never said he was not did I suggested making him one.

If you've ever played him in Hamlet then you know what I'm talking about.

I have played hamlet. The snapdragons were powerful enough to solve a lot of problems, i hope we dont get an equivalent so people dont treat him like just another minion character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

My boi is a plant. He does plant things

wx currently is our speedster, as he was before.

This is misguided, there are a lot of overlaps in the game. Following a theme isn't meant to put a character into a box, it's flare. To flesh out a character's personality, it does not has a defining point to what a character can or can't do/be.

Wormwood does no more plant things than Wigfrid does "viking things", no more than Wand does "clock things". They follow a theme sure, but they are not limited by that theme, that theme is instead incorporated and shapes into any single perk Klei wants. There is even concept art for a clock that allows Wanda to be faster.

I'm not talking about skewed perceptions of what I want the character to be. Blooming has been present since his debut and may have been even redesigned to accommodate to it since his inception. 

Secondly, regarding overlaps, we have a lot of damage dealers, a lot of resource gathered and support characters. Speed characters we have 4 Wx-78, Wormwood, Walter, and Goose Woody. They each present different capabilities when approaching speed in response to the rest of their kit. Though you may not like it, Wormwood is a speed character, it is incorporated in the form of a gradual transformation that allows him an movement advantage. The FACT that it INCORPORATED into his very BEING, reflecting in skins, in art, in trailers, should be proof enough that it is a main component to himself. All aspects of his gameplay can revolve around blooming if the player so chooses, all aspects of his gameplay CANNOT revolve around "plant things" no matter how hard a player tries. 

It is in this inetivable transformation that Wormwood should synergize with his items, as even Klei themselves have done with farming. This isn't unprecedented, blooming benefits farming, and it is in this FACT that Wormwood can be further fleshed out. By further revolving his kit, his very essence, in that Wormwood will become more whole. Just as Wolfgang's kit revolves around Mighty, Just as Woodies kit revolves around his curse, etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

This is misguided, there are a lot of overlaps in the game. Following a theme isn't meant to put a character into a box, it's flare. To flesh out a character's personality, it does not has a defining point to what a character can or can't do/be.

Wormwood does no more plant things than Wigfrid does "viking things", no more than Wand does "clock things". They follow a theme sure, but they are not limited by that theme, that theme is instead incorporated and shapes into any single perk Klei wants. There is even concept art for a clock that allows Wanda to be faster.

I'm not talking about skewed perceptions of what I want the character to be. Blooming has been present since his debut and may have been even redesigned to accommodate to it since his inception. 

Secondly, regarding overlaps, we have a lot of damage dealers, a lot of resource gathered and support characters. Speed characters we have 4 Wx-78, Wormwood, Walter, and Goose Woody. They each present different capabilities when approaching speed in response to the rest of their kit. Though you may not like it, Wormwood is a speed character, it is incorporated in the form of a gradual transformation that allows him an movement advantage. The FACT that it INCORPORATED into his very BEING, reflecting in skins, in art, in trailers, should be proof enough that it is a main component to himself. All aspects of his gameplay can revolve around blooming if the player so chooses, all aspects of his gameplay CANNOT revolve around "plant things" no matter how hard a player tries. 

It is in this inetivable transformation that Wormwood should synergize with his items, as even Klei themselves have done with farming. This isn't unprecedented, blooming benefits farming, and it is in this FACT that Wormwood can be further fleshed out. By further revolving his kit, his very essence, in that Wormwood will become more whole. Just as Wolfgang's kit revolves around Mighty, Just as Woodies kit revolves around his curse, etc. 

Its crazy how you’re selling this so hard but in the poll (that i didnt know about till i checked it out after you mentioned it) no one agreed with you that wormwoods primary perk was blooming and speed. Its almost like i agree that wormwood is more than just his speedboost

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wormwoods blooming effect was normally highly situational as in you literally needed to wait till a specific point of year before it happened- when Klei allowed force bloom it fooled a few individuals into thinking Wormwoods primary perk is Zippy go Fast.

This is false, Wormwoods primary perk, is.. was and always will be: Plants relate to him.

Now however Klei wants to take that and add to it to make wormwood more unique I’m curious to see how that goes.

But if they Nerfed or outright removed his force bloom I for one could not careless.

In fact I think there should be some sort of penalty on it: just like caring for a real flower- If you care for it too little (not enough water, not enough sunlight etc..) it dies, if you care for it too much (drowning it in water, way too much sunlight etc..) It also equally dies- The BALANCE is in finding the in between too little & too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

makes perfect sense, ive never heard of a plant doing some kind of super bloom.

I've never heard of candy being turned into a computer component that allows said computer to regenerate. Do you want to go into the rabbit hole that is realism? In a video game? 

Quote

side note, do you know how i split the quote by hitting return?

my replies are in the quote itself because i was doinf this while waiting to be seated to eat

i did it again and im not sure how

simultaneously, he isnt reliant on jellybeans, i almost never kill the bee queen before i have something specific i want to use the beans on, so like year two minimum i just set up a bat farm and use batbats from killint dragonfly. Along with spiders and bunnys obv. The fights just too annoying. 

There are only a few ways Wormwood can heal:

Tent, healing salve, honey poultice, rot, guano, manure, compost, bat bat, compost wrap, and items from other characters.

Of those do you know how many go past healing  40 HP, can be used in battle, are not reliant on another character, and doesn't have an extremely long animation? The equivalent of one pierogie/dragon pie?

2 of them can, the bat bat and jelly beans. (While the compost wrap has a healing of 40, the long animation makes it interruptible and the animation may also lower the max healing potential).

Jelly beans are the strongest contender for healing that doesn't have the drawbacks of the bat bat. It isn't limited by the number of reeds on a map, and heals far more over the course of two minutes than once can achieve spamming SIX healing salve. 

A Wormwood that doesn't use jelly beans against the strongest foes in the game is only doing so to prove a baseless a point on the forums. 

A single bee queen can provide over 2,000 worth of healing from a single kill and none of them are guaranteed to fall into Wormwood hands in multiplayer. Regardless they are his greatest asset, the gap between healing from jelly beans and all other forms of healing available to him are massive. This is where a unique craft is supposed to come in, fill in gaps in the healing progression. If not through moongleams that through something else but the gap is noticeable.

The same can be said about blooming, I think Klei should commit to making this an internal part of his kit. The foundation is already there as well as the precedent of blooming interacting with other facets of his kit.

Quote

I absolutely 100% agree. How in is the ever. The compost wrap shouldn’t need the moon storm. Full stop. I also dont like that it uses nitre but I typically just make some while i have nitre, not get nitre to make some.

In my humble opinion, it’s completely and totally a bad idea to make wormwood reliant on what is a fairly disruptive world state. Also if we did give it an improved movement speed as a reward, it wouldn’t even be worth the trouble. Id probably just stick with super growth formula. 

Exactly, it does not eclipse other forms of other things. That's why it is balanced, you can even continue to use the basic compost wrap if you wish. The fact that you don't want to deal with the Storms means it does align with your play style. That is why overlapping exists, to accommodate to different play styles.

Auto farming bee queen is still present.

Easier, non event gated, healing is still present.

Auto farmable, large healing with drawbacks, is still present.

This isn't meant to be a beats all type of thing.

Also super blooming is just a concept, I'd rather have his innate speed buffed to 30%.

Quote

the triple return to split the quote is so inconsistent im furious

So you ARE aware you dont really need jellybeans?

You'd only be crippling yourself. Jelly beans is inetivable to reach every Wormwood's pockets, unless they are making the conscious choice not to use them for one reason or another. 

Quote

why does it need to be cruicial? I mean i dont like the bottle rng either but, compost wraps are just an annoying early game healing option. Thats how they’re intended id just like a use for them later on. 

Crucial in this case only means that it's meant to have a large amount of gravitas. When comparing it's use in a large scope of scenarios where it will prove to be immensely beneficial, it will be crucial. Not that Wormwood can't live without it but that he won't want to. That is where the significance of something taking up a slot in his limited greenthumb tab is justifiable. 

Wanda's alarming clock is crucial to the full Wanda experience, its place among her kit is unreplaceable.

Quote

I mean. You get the three days when you bloom, you only extend the duration with growth formula

also i wont mention this from now on, just assume im trying to do it and just not bothering if it doesnt work

I dont tank spiders but it really makes them a nonissue. Two dens at once is not dangerous, if i get bit they take damage and i get breathing room. Bees are similar, it just removes any possibility of danger in some otherwise dangerous scenarios. Tentapillars on the other hand? 100% tank, **** hutch ive got hutch 5.0 on my chest.

These would fall under niche, inefficient, or lack of kiting scenarios.

As I play the game more efficiently and I do not enjoy digging into my own gains (taking damage for spider glands). We can agree to disagree.  

Personally a group of well placed hutches and spider nest does the job, forever with 0 upkeep.

Quote

i mean fair, personally i prefer cheap armor, and trust that they wont kill me before i have a chance to heal. I normally dont bother with anything more expensive than football helmets unless the fight is bee queen or another boss where i may well need some serious protection. (Cc)

Yeah, not me. As my choice of healing early game is the bat bat for it's synergistic and high healing potential. The 95% armor increase means my DPS won't dip so low when I decide to swap from my dark swords (everytime I swing a bat bat in it's place I lose 26~ DPS). 

Quote

and I completely disagree on this being some sort of necessity. Wormwood doesnt have to be the best at using what he makes, hes the only one who can make it, everyone needs a wormwood if they want it.

We can agree to disagree. There are character items that others can't even use, like the slingshot or alarming clock. I think Klei should be more consistent.

And it's not just about him being better at it, it's about pulling the thorn effect into a more consistent use than being niche.

Quote

Wx isnt better than wormwood at using it either, he just has a similar ability that kind of stacks.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Having an innate effect that stacks with an outside force is literally increase the power of both. "Stacking" being the key word here.

Quote

But really if you’re trying to abuse that as wx you probably should just use marble armor because the shock is way stronger than the brambles burst and doesnt rely on either character swapping or having a second player using a specific character.

Funny enough, that is a viable strategy in increasing the effect of Wx-78's thorn effect, but in a defensive way vs an offensive way.

Hmm... 90~120 single target damage with 95% armor, that couldn't possibly eclipse something else could it? That single target damage sure would come in handy against every single target boss (99% of them) in the game vs 3 mobs that may or may not "stunlock you" because the player can't kite.

Quote

again, i just fully disagree. Its an item he can craft, doesnt mean he needs some forced synergy. 

Wouldn't be forced, blooming has a precedent in synergizing with other parts of his dowsides and upsides (avoiding damage and farming). This would only be fleshing it out more.

Quote

i mean yeah everyone would love if traps reset themselves. Itd be really nice.

I though you said it was completely unnecessary? Did you change your mind slightly just because I said it was popular lol?

Quote

still doesnt mean the bramble traps need it, or deserve it,

Finding that an item "deserves" something is a fickle thing. I find it better to use guidelines present in the game in order to conclude a buff or not. 

I think I have presented enough information for Klei to at least think about it. 

Also you said it would be "nice" and that everyone would love it. I think everyone has a valid reason to improve it not just because it may or may not "deserve it" and I'm certain it's not because it would simply be "nice".

Quote

they’re already arguably stronger than the traditional traps while being arguably cheaper. Its plenty of reason for them to exist. Resetting them is the downside of traps, that and the cost. Disagree if you want, thats just how i see it

20 HP from Wormwood isn't cheap in my opinion. 

Normal traps just need a hound tooth and other basic materials. They fill in the same function so the "power" of the bramble traps is mostly wasted. Until mon spawners are introduced than they are easily outclassed.

I've also heard that in multiplayer they are almost comparatively DETRIMENTAL. Because other people set them off and don't tell you, other people forget about the husk and die, etc etc. People would rather use something else in some cases, SAFER and more intuitive (one trigger/trick pony) ways, like Wurts merms, tank with a singing Wig, catapults, etc etc.

Quote

I mean, maybe there’s a lore reason? Idk man i just think they didn’t give him one because he isnt moon themed he’s just a plant bro

 

He's just a plant "bro", lmao did you watch the Wormwood trailer? He's a GEM/flora hybrid. Take one quick guess where the gem came from.

Quote

I have played hamlet. The snapdragons were powerful enough to solve a lot of problems, i hope we dont get an equivalent so people dont treat him like just another minion character.

Then you didn't play Hamlet, you'd know that's not how snaptooths functioned, they're not even recruitable? 

You even got their names wrong, so you might not be remembering clearly.

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

Its crazy how you’re selling this so hard but in the poll (that i didnt know about till i checked it out after you mentioned it) no one agreed with you that wormwoods primary perk was blooming and speed. Its almost like i agree that wormwood is more than just his speedboost

My main comment got 8 reactions wdym? Many people even voted to increase his speed in the poll itself?

If that was bait, then try harder I guess?

Not to mention I use the forums to strengthen my ideas, the final decision is up to the devs. I guess you care a lot about reactions for some reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I've never heard of candy being turned into a computer component that allows said computer to regenerate. Do you want to go into the rabbit hole that is realism? In a video game? 

There are only a few ways Wormwood can heal:

Tent, healing salve, honey poultice, rot, guano, manure, compost, bat bat, compost wrap, and items from other characters.

Of those do you know how many go past healing  40 HP, can be used in battle, are not reliant on another character, and doesn't have an extremely long animation? The equivalent of one pierogie/dragon pie?

2 of them can, the bat bat and jelly beans. (While the compost wrap has a healing of 40, the long animation makes it interruptible and the animation may also lower the max healing potential).

Jelly beans are the strongest contender for healing that doesn't have the drawbacks of the bat bat. It isn't limited by the number of reeds on a map, and heals far more over the course of two minutes than once can achieve spamming SIX healing salve. 

A Wormwood that doesn't use jelly beans against the strongest foes in the game is only doing so to prove a baseless a point on the forums. 

A single bee queen can provide over 2,000 worth of healing from a single kill and none of them are guaranteed to fall into Wormwood hands in multiplayer. Regardless they are his greatest asset, the gap between healing from jelly beans and all other forms of healing available to him are massive. This is where a unique craft is supposed to come in, fill in gaps in the healing progression. If not through moongleams that through something else but the gap is noticeable.

The same can be said about blooming, I think Klei should commit to making this an internal part of his kit. The foundation is already there as well as the precedent of blooming interacting with other facets of his kit.

Exactly, it does not eclipse other forms of other things. That's why it is balanced, you can even continue to use the basic compost wrap if you wish. The fact that you don't want to deal with the Storms means it does align with your play style. That is why overlapping exists, to accommodate to different play styles.

Auto farming bee queen is still present.

Easier, non event gated, healing is still present.

Auto farmable, large healing with drawbacks, is still present.

This isn't meant to be a beats all type of thing.

Also super blooming is just a concept, I'd rather have his innate speed buffed to 30%.

You'd only be crippling yourself. Jelly beans is inetivable to reach every Wormwood's pockets, unless they are making the conscious choice not to use them for one reason or another. 

Crucial in this case only means that it's meant to have a large amount of gravitas. When comparing it's use in a large scope of scenarios where it will prove to be immensely beneficial, it will be crucial. Not that Wormwood can't live without it but that he won't want to. That is where the significance of something taking up a slot in his limited greenthumb tab is justifiable. 

Wanda's alarming clock is crucial to the full Wanda experience, its place among her kit is unreplaceable.

These would fall under niche, inefficient, or lack of kiting scenarios.

As I play the game more efficiently and I do not enjoy digging into my own gains (taking damage for spider glands). We can agree to disagree.  

Personally a group of well placed hutches and spider nest does the job, forever with 0 upkeep.

Yeah, not me. As my choice of healing early game is the bat bat for it's synergistic and high healing potential. The 95% armor increase means my DPS won't dip so low when I decide to swap from my dark swords (everytime I swing a bat bat in it's place I lose 26~ DPS). 

We can agree to disagree. There are character items that others can't even use, like the slingshot or alarming clock. I think Klei should be more consistent.

And it's not just about him being better at it, it's about pulling the thorn effect into a more consistent use than being niche.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Having an innate effect that stacks with an outside force is literally increase the power of both. "Stacking" being the key word here.

Funny enough, that is a viable strategy in increasing the effect of Wx-78's thorn effect, but in a defensive way vs an offensive way.

Hmm... 90~120 single target damage with 95% armor, that couldn't possibly eclipse something else could it? That single target damage sure would come in handy against every single target boss (99% of them) in the game vs 3 mobs that may or may not "stunlock you" because the player can't kite.

Wouldn't be forced, blooming has a precedent in synergizing with other parts of his dowsides and upsides (avoiding damage and farming). This would only be fleshing it out more.

I though you said it was completely unnecessary? Did you change your mind slightly just because I said it was popular lol?

Finding that an item "deserves" something is a fickle thing. I find it better to use guidelines present in the game in order to conclude a buff or not. 

I think I have presented enough information for Klei to at least think about it. 

Also you said it would be "nice" and that everyone would love it. I think everyone has a valid reason to improve it not just because it may or may not "deserve it" and I'm certain it's not because it would simply be "nice".

20 HP from Wormwood isn't cheap in my opinion. 

Normal traps just need a hound tooth and other basic materials. They fill in the same function so the "power" of the bramble traps is mostly wasted. Until mon spawners are introduced than they are easily outclassed.

I've also heard that in multiplayer they are almost comparatively DETRIMENTAL. Because other people set them off and don't tell you, other people forget about the husk and die, etc etc. People would rather use something else in some cases, SAFER and more intuitive (one trigger/trick pony) ways, like Wurts merms, tank with a singing Wig, catapults, etc etc.

He's just a plant "bro", lmao did you watch the Wormwood trailer? He's a GEM/flora hybrid. Take one quick guess where the gem came from.

Then you didn't play Hamlet, you'd know that's not how snaptooths functioned, they're not even recruitable? 

You even got their names wrong, so you might not be remembering clearly.

My main comment got 8 reactions wdym? Many people even voted to increase his speed in the poll itself?

If that was bait, then try harder I guess?

Not to mention I use the forums to strengthen my ideas, the final decision is up to the devs. I guess you care a lot about reactions for some reason.

*dabs* idk man i wrote that as fast as possible, agree to disagree n all that. 
 

it really just feels like you’re looking for buffs to wormwood because you like him, when he just doesn’t need any buffs. I like wormwood, id like to keep things that are good the same instead of giving them what i consider to be bloat. Aka a bunch of unnecessary small additions. He’s good he’s fun, that makes him my favorite character. 
 

but tbh im not some premiere expert on what other people like. Its kleis game, if they wanna make wormwood a dude with 10s of options for optional plant blenders, that moves sanic fast and has some cool crafts that do wacky stuff. Its their game i suppose. I just prefer things to be simple. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
×
  • Create New...