Warly's food memory.

[Ketrai]

Simple request to rework Warly's food memory to be less... tedious? 

This isn't a request to make the character any less challenging. Make Warly difficult in a way that doesn't make inventory management a living hell. I'm mainly talking about the health aspect of healing foods.

- Having to carry multiple foods to cure hunger is manageable because of how strong meat stew, honey ham, and some others are. At most you loose as much inventory space as wanda.

- Having to carry multiple foods to deal with health is skewed. This is especially painful when fighting some more difficult bosses, or going down to the ruins. The ingredients for some of the better foods are also quite rare. The only real solution to this is carrying 5x of each healing food and just wasting so much food by penalizing yourself with the food memory debuff anyways. The other option is healing salve, or honey poultice. But both of those are difficult to farm. Even with stonefruit bushes, you're eating up stones which tend to be consumed en masse by active base members. Not to mention having to burn resources for ash is quite a waste, with one of the best candidates being lightbulbs, which take quite a bit of time to gather. All that for 20 HP a pop. 

In the end, it really just comes down to inventory management. All other "weaker" characters, have a way to compensate for their weakness that doesn't revolve around them carrying multiple extra slots of gear, or having to grind some of the worst equipment in the game. Wes just needs a few extra pierogis, and so does maxwell. Lower HP isn't as punishing. 

[Echsrick]

makin honey poultrice realy is not that hard to get, honey is usualy a thing you get way to much of anyways, and reeds and paper have generaly low uses for not character special things, alsol salt spice exist

[Ketrai]

6 hours ago, Dr.Medic said:

makin honey poultrice realy is not that hard to get, honey is usualy a thing you get way to much of anyways, and reeds and paper have generaly low uses for not character special things, alsol salt spice exist

Reeds are tough to farm. And if you have a Wanda they're often monopolizing the stuff just for night armor. Unless you have a reed trap, walking through the swamp to pick up enough reeds for 5 is going to take more than a whole day collecting (and that's likely as much as you're going to get). After which the reeds are down for another 3 days. So if you want 20 poultices you're going to need at least 12 days on an average world. Ironically stuff like reeds make Warly a better solo character than a group character. 

 

Salt... Is generally going to take you more time to get than it helps you. It adds 25% more health to a dish. So that's 10 on pierogi, 15 on surf n turf. You've had to go to the ocean, locate salt pillars, be lucky enough to have them close to your base, kill cookie cutters, pickaxe the pillars, use 1.5 salt per dish. Sure, doing one salt run gets you a lot of salt. But that stuff doesn't even extend the lifetime of dishes, so in the end you're spending a lot of time and effort you could be using to gather more useful resources for something that barely makes your healing food more efficient. If you need to carry 5 dishes for a ruins trip, then having to carry 4 instead of 5 isn't going to help a whole lot. Salt is one of those things that's more hilarious if you give them to a wolfgang in the form of seasoned surf n turf. Besides, if you're taking any seasoned food into the ruins, you'll find that honey, spice, and garlic seasoning are all respectively far easier to get once you have the seeds, and far more useful.

[Ohan]

Warly is one of the strongest characters and so has a downside proportionate to his many upsides. 

Downsides are there for the player to learn how to overcome. Once u gain more experience u will realize it is perfectly managable. 

U can go down the list and argue how u dont like this or that way to overcome the downside for this or that reason but thats not very productive. The tools are already there the fun is in figuring out which tools fit ur playstyle the best and how ur gonna go about acquiring them. 

Ash and rocks definitely are not the precious resources ur making them out to be. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

for hunger you only need meat stews...

he is one of the best characters since is one of the most powerful and has an interesting downside

9 hours ago, Ketrai said:

- Having to carry multiple foods to deal with health is skewed. This is especially painful when fighting some more difficult bosses, or going down to the ruins

see? you got the point

 

the only """problem""" with warly is that or you know how to kill BQ or you will suffer his downside a lot more but that is fine since we have characters that doesnt need any experience to be played. Let atleast few "difficult" characters..

 

[BonesJrOfficial]

You can always just use the raw gland/sack, jellybeans with garlic powder, or even sleep when you can. Butterfly muffin, froggle bunwich, pierogi, honey ham, trail mix, honey Nuggets. All super cheap to make. And if you need the healing, you'll have the inventory space to carry what you need afterwards anyways. To have the utility belt of recipes warly has, you can't treat him like every other character. You gotta play him different. These challenges are necessary. Otherwise Klei might as well stop character refreshes and go back to essentially only having wilson clones.

[Ketrai]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:58 PM, Bones Junior said:

jellybeans with garlic powder

On 1/9/2022 at 12:04 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the only """problem""" with warly is that or you know how to kill BQ or you will suffer his downside a lot more but that is fine since we have characters that doesnt need any experience to be played. Let atleast few "difficult" characters..

BQ is one of the worst parts of the game to begin with, evident by the sheer volume of players that cheese the boss to hell and back. And if using jellybeans to circumvent the negative is intended/interesting? It undermines the whole point of getting less healing easily. It's not even affected by food memory. This really just illustrates the flaws. I'd find it more interesting if I could just use 2 healing foods instead, but be able to reset the food memory for that particular food with spices. Or if they at the very least, count as a separate dish. This way you can get the healing benefit like any other player, but you at the very least have to grind some peppers and honey to make it work. That way I don't have to contest rocks, ash. Honey is plentiful and farming is just time consuming. This also preserves the most interesting part, namely the early game food memory challenge. 

The question isn't "How do you deal with food memory healing."

So to make it clear, I'm mostly just looking for suggestions to make food memory more interesting like the aforementioned. In a way that doesn't change Warly's difficulty rating much at all. I'm not looking to be told what I already know, how to do basic things like sleep, eat food, and healing items. Or that Warly is difficult and how every other character is a Wilson clone. We're forum nerds anyways and the people that are repeat posters usually have at least 50 hours in the game. (600 hours in my case). It's safe to assume people know about boss drops and tents.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Ketrai said:

BQ is one of the worst parts of the game to begin with, evident by the sheer volume of players that cheese the boss to hell and back.

as warly is as simple as waiting spring. x3 damage go brrrrr

12 minutes ago, Ketrai said:

And if using jellybeans to circumvent the negative is intended/interesting?

yes and if for not you can use high healing dishes like surf and turf, moqueca, leafy meat salad, dragon pie, fishsticks, pierogi, barnacle pita, leafy meat burguer, etc 

In early you can use thinks like trail mix, butter muffin, fishsticks, nigiri, surf n tuf and pierogies for fighting and honey based food to heal outside of combat

as you see, 2 silk and few twigs to craft a fishing rod adds a lot of easy to access dishes

in addition you can add healing salves or honey salves to help which are kinda cheap and never spoil

as warly you dont need that much healing since you have x3 damage and extra armor with garlic powder. Salt is easy to amass, simply hit the salt formations with your boat to save time.

also you can use marble suit if you dont know how to kite properly. 95% damage reduction plus garlic powder plus spicy volt goat jelly is too much power

12 minutes ago, Ketrai said:

The question isn't "How do you deal with food memory healing."

learning kitting pattern and killing things in spring or in winter if they are in the caves to get that sweet x3 damage

also, an obvious one but having good performance, low ping and lag prediction turned off helps

warly is one of the most difficult characters and, at the same time, one of the strongers. If you need a lot of healing might be because you need more practise

12 minutes ago, Ketrai said:

So to make it clear, I'm mostly just looking for suggestions to make food memory more interesting

is already the most interesting downside along with wanda's, walter's and wormwood's. I dont considere worth wasting dev time just to change one of the few characters that needs being focused and needs player knowledge

[Echsrick]

if we talk about food memory and stuff, then maybe this mod may hel you

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266744139

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

if we talk about food memory and stuff, then maybe this mod may hel you

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266744139

seems like alzheimer hits hard

[Echsrick]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

seems like alzheimer hits hard

seems more like it makes the reminder for you then anything else, its usefull for manythings, that way you can have your mind on something else while the mod does the food reminding

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Dr.Medic said:

seems more like it makes the reminder for you then anything else, its usefull for manythings, that way you can have your mind on something else while the mod does the food reminding

i was just kidding

[Ketrai]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:46 PM, Dr.Medic said:

if we talk about food memory and stuff, then maybe this mod may hel you

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266744139

I actually already use this mod. It's pretty nice. Lil immersion breaking at times, kinda wish there were sound queues or quotes ingame that tell you as well. 

[Ketrai]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:02 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

learning kitting pattern and killing things in spring or in winter if they are in the caves to get that sweet x3 damage

also, an obvious one but having good performance, low ping and lag prediction turned off helps

warly is one of the most difficult characters and, at the same time, one of the strongers. If you need a lot of healing might be because you need more practise

is already the most interesting downside along with wanda's, walter's and wormwood's. I dont considere worth wasting dev time just to change one of the few characters that needs being focused and needs player knowledge

I agree with wanda and wormwood. Wormwood also has speed buffs and regen naturally available to enable his more tricky healing, without having to waste inventory slots, and is as a result far more interesting than warly. Especially in the lag-riddled world of DST. (Mobs attacks should be dealt by the client currently being targeted! the fact this isn't how it works is multiplayer code! There's more than enough time to switch ownership between mob attacks for most bosses/enemies, it's mainly an issue with AOE attacks but even for these it'd make them easier to dodge.)

Walter isn't a character I'd call well designed considering plenty use him to just cheese klaus against some obstacles (admittedly they use wanda for this too) And his ranged DPS is so low most people don't even bother. Which is funny because wheeler was much better received. They only really needed to make "Fling almost anything" a mechanic, and give it decent damage. 

Kiting isn't much of an issue. I mostly struggle when fighting together with other people (throws off kiting timing, especially if they start to run too early and cause the boss to move a lot), or dragonfly off-roads/cobble with only a cane. But that being said, with no way to guarantee rain you're really overrating volt jelly. I remember waiting an entire winter for it to rain down in the caves to kill misery and it just wouldn't happen. And for misery the 2x chopping is still far inferior to weather pains which is also kinda dumb. (Aka have fun farming volt-goats, one of the more annoying things to farm)

Nah, most of the annoyance is from going deep into the caves, to the faraway ruins. There isn't enough food variety down there. With what's currently available in the caves you can make a handful of fish dishes, meatballs, meaty stew, ratatouille, fruit glass thing. But the ingredients are quite far spread apart (and extremely RNG dependent). If you want to take your time, or simply during the early-to-mid-game, you'll be carrying a lot of food. And anything that takes 10 days or less to spoil could easily end up wasted. Nevermind the fact that bishops still feature nigh-unavoidable damage because of their projectile speed. 

Also plenty of Warly dishes almost never get made due to being weirdly costly for their benefit when there's non Warly dishes that are very competitive in comparison. 

But maybe I've just been playing too much Warly. Everything gets tedious if you've done it enough. Wanda is much better designed overall and in my opinion, hassle-free to play despite the downside. Her early game is less painful than most make her out to be. All it takes is walking down into the archives to get a clock and boom, better than wolfgang when he doesn't have a dark sword damage, which can carry you for the rest of the game, without volt goat horns and committing to the rain god cult. (Honestly it's so worry free it might be TOO strong.)

[GelatinousCube]

19 hours ago, Ketrai said:

And for misery the 2x chopping is still far inferior to weather pains which is also kinda dumb. (Aka have fun farming volt-goats, one of the more annoying things to farm)

Glass cutters while honey spiced make short work of the "trees he summons. On console where weather pains are not very reliable I use glass cutters for toad and they get the job done.

Make an automatic anenome volt goat farm and you will be swimming in volt goat horns. Seriously I make a bunch of morning stars on occasion just to use them all up. Morning Stars are great for caves btw, light source so you can wear head armor and backpack and they destroy the worms who are always wet. Useful for Toad too if he's wet.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Glass cutters while honey spiced make short work of the "trees he summons. On console where weather pains are not very reliable I use glass cutters for toad and they get the job done.

i play on pc and as warly i just perform few WP uses and mostly because they spawn on top of a sporecloud. Actually, as any character, the ammount of WP uses is drastically reduced because of glass axes

[goatt]

i kinda agree that the challenges are the tedious kinda challenges. 

[lakhnish]

Learn how to do panflute spam with Volt Goat Jelly against BQ. It makes the fight very easy.

Then you can bundle all the food that you need.