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Wolfgang data bank. Rants, suggestions, experiences and everything Wolfgang propaganda.


This poll is an agreement between everyone choosing to take part.  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. I understand that this forum is all about Wolfgang's rework and archiving reactions/opinions for Klei

  2. 2. If I go off topic it will be to make a POINT about wolfgang.

  3. 3. I will respect my fellow forumites and their opinions just this once.

    • Of course.
    • *gasp* I would never disrespect anyone :)
  4. 4. I will respect the agreement and will say my piece.

  5. 5. Do you believe Wolfgang's rework still needs changes/tweaks

    • Yes. (give your ideas for changes AND reasoning for changes below)
    • No. (Your vote is enough)


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36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wanda’s healing clocks do not work AT ALL when she is taking Damage over Time from Overheating or Freezing, Just like if a mob capable of inflicting poison, fire or any other DoT effect were added: Wanda is Screwed.

Wendy is equally in a bad spot in the Warzone between Shadows & Gasthalts two mobs in the game Abigail just stands around refusing to help Wendy with at all, ANOTHER Downside to Wendy is if she needs to carefully kill one enemy in a group of enemies to avoid enraging them (Klaus) She will equally suffer.

Wolf's wimpy

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Game Design

I began playing DS in 2015 so I wasn’t there in the beginning. But I can imagine the thought process behind some of the early characters. Vanilla DS has three stats: hunger, health, and sanity. Low sanity makes the game a bit harder. Now these days many players think that the challenge of being insane is basically non-existent it seems, but I imagine that the devs back then thought that the sanity cost of reading Wickerbottom’s books would be something that really needed to be managed. And maybe that’s where her can’t-sleep downside comes from: here’s a character that needs to use sanity in order to use her abilities (except the free science tier) and and she isn’t able to recover sanity through this specific avenue! Now of course most people don’t use the sleep mechanism at all since it is easy enough to recover sanity if you want to. And recovering sanity is optional in a lot of circumstances.

So perhaps the idea behind Wickerbottom was that managing sanity is a big deal.  So she gets a high max sanity in order to have a spare pool for spell casting, and one less way to recover sanity.

But Wickerbottom today (especially in DS) is just a really strong character; she has great upsides and trivial downsides. And I speculate that she ended up that way because the devs overestimated how challenging sanity management would end up being.

DS Wolfgang on the other hand is all about the hunger stat. Now let’s just forget about the 25% speed boost since that seems like it was just a bug that became a feature: he gets double damage on a full stomach, or perhaps 170% to 190% damage in practice since you would need to constantly be snacking in order to get that nice double damage. But now you figure out in the year 2020 that gorging yourself in this game is a bit too easy; getting close to double damage is too good. So given that he is too easy to play, how do you fix him?

And at this point we run into the fundamental issue: he is designed around one of the three core stats of the game.  And feeding yourself efficiently is straightforward mid- to late game: set up six crockpots and make about a handful of meat-based crockpot recipes.  Now you could, concievably, change Wolfgang indirectly by changing, say, a ton of crockpot recipes.  But then you might also want to change things that are easy to get mid- to late game, like honey.  And maybe also stone fruit bushes.

The hunger stat is just a calorie counter: a single number that drains uniformly, with the exception of Wolfgang of course.

Do we need to redesign the whole food system? That would affect all characters. Or could we do something that only needs to affect Wolfgang?

Replace the might meter with a stamina meter

One of the fundamental problems with the might meter is that it adds something to do that is almost independent from everything else in the game.  Now there might be some exceptions (it’s hard to keep up since the devs like to add so many tiny little perks and drawbacks lately): you get mighty from fighting and throwing dumbbells.  Maybe we should also count carrying heavy things since it maintains mightiness.  But is that good enough?  Can we incorporate dumbbell fighting/throwing and holding marble pieces into the game loop?

Now consider Wigfrid’s inspiration: that thing charges based on how many times Wigfrid has attacked something lately.  Which is exactly what Wigfrid should be doing (other than crafting helmets).  This is a good use of a meter.

So my proposal is a new kind of meter that would replace the might meter.

Benefits and drawbacks

When at 50% or higher stamina mighty Wolfgang does 2x damage.  When below that he does 1.5x damage.  When stamina reaches 0 he will faint similar to how gestalts will knock you out.  He will then get a grogginess debuff when he wakes up.

As an alternative to fainting at 0: Wolfgang has a 5% chance to faint when he is at 0 to 10% stamina.  So that randomness makes it so that you can take a calculated risk when you are at low stamina.  You might want to do that in a group fight, while on the other hand you might never want to do it when fighting things solo.

Another possible benefit: when stamina is 75% or higher and he is wielding a hambat or a thulecite club he more easily stunlocks his target.  This could be a team thing for Wolfgang: stunlock the target so that the rest of the team can hit it.  So add that to the perk idea soup.

Gaining and losing stamina

The stamina meter only drains when the following is going on: Wolfgang is attacking something in mighty form. That’s the only time. (We could get into things like carrying marble pieces etc. but… that’s a distraction IMO.  Let’s focus on the core gameplay for now.)

If that’s too easy then stamina could also drain when in normal form, but slower.  Wimpy form should be excused.

Now as far as recovering stamina is concerned there are many possibilities.  But first of all it recovers passively when out of combat for one second or so (of course we could reduce that cooldown).  Second of all it also recovers when eating specific types of food. And here’s where we get back to basic stat point: instead of redesigning hunger we just add a few simple rules for this specific character.

Those rules are:

  1. Meat and meat-based dishes (excepting (3)) do not recover stamina
  2. Veggies and vegetarian dishes recover stamina (things like honey and berries do not count)
  3. Fish and seafood-based dishes (frogs don’t count) recover more stamina than 2 and also temporarily increases his max stamina

The thought process is that:

  1. Meat and meat-based dishes are easy to get, hunger and healing-efficient, and easy for Wolfgang to acquire
  2. Veggies are harder to get mid- to late game (very early game you can just pick carrots, but stamina might not matter much in the early game unless you are rushing bosses), don’t have fantastic crockpot dishes, and is as hard for Wolfgang to get as any other average character
  3. You kind of have to go out of your way to get seafood and freshwater fish (unless you are farming merms I guess?) and you can’t get a bunch of this food at once as you can with RWYS farming (Also, and obviously: a reason to use the ocean content)

An obvious problem with veggies are: kelp fronds, stone fruit bushes, blue caps, and cactus flesh.  Maybe there should be a lower cap on hunger?  In other words: only, say, foods that recover 25 hunger or more will increase your stamina?  Or buff seafood/fish dishes compared to veggie dishes, stamina-wise.

Another way to recover stamina could also be sleeping.  I think this should also increase max stamina.  I think that’s a nice alternative: you trade some precious time for recovering some stamina that you might need for a small boss fight since you don’t have great food on hand.

What would this do for Wolfgang gameplay?

Let’s assume that the stamina drain and recovery is such that small skirmishes like killing a few tier three spider nests does not put him below 50% stamina.  In this scenario the new design has no downsides or any more tedium compared to pre-rework Wolfgang.

Another scenario: just walking around the world and being prepared for non-player triggered events like hound attacks.  Your stamina is 40%.  You are currently normal Wolfgang.  You have enough food to get mighty.  If hounds attack then you might want to get mighty since you have enough food and you will get 50% more damage.  40% stamina will be plenty for a hound wave.  Also, it’s early spring so you don’t have to worry about a boss like Deerclops showing up after the houndwave.

Another scenario: you are about to fight the Eye of Terror.  You consider how long the fight is and conclude that you will need a little more max stamina in order to last through the fight.  But it’s a boss with relatively little health so you just get some barnacles a few days before the fight.

Another scenario: fighting Misery Toadstool.  This one takes a lot of preparation in general, and now you have to make sure that you have enough stamina-giving food as well.  But you also know that the devs and designers are clever and that they wouldn’t allow Wolfgang to have a low max cap on stamina when enemies like Misery Toadstool exists.  So you make the extra preparations and everything goes well. :)

Closing thoughts

What does this achieve?  I think it makes him a more mechanically interesting character.  The might meter is not very interesting, and it doesn’t have much potential to become interesting.  I have read some suggestions that there should be alternatives to maintaining mightiness.  And some say that he shouldn’t lose mightiness while fighting.  But think of the implication: just eating food might be very simple, but at least it is something that is a separate from fighting.  If Wolfgang would not lose mightiness when fighting then this loop just becomes: (1) stand around and get mighty by working out, (2) attack (3) win.  I.e.: just press “f”!

The stamina meter, on the other hand, forces Wolfgang (or his teammates) out into the world: for veggie sources on land and sea, for freshwater fish on land, barnacles and ocean fishes, eels in the caves, etc.  So he cannot just rely on the stuff that he whacks himself and a few veggies for pierogis.

It also integrates with all of the non-fighting in this game: you have to plan some fights (like boss battles), while others are a non-issue (small skirmishes).  Remember, you recover stamina passively so sometimes this is not something you have to manage at all; you just have to be aware of what you plan to do and if it involves a lot of back-to-back fighting.  Compare that to mightiness which is something that you have to think about and put aside time for every day (if you want to stay normal or mighty).

It’s also simple: there are four different types of food according to stamina (since honey and berries do not count as veggie food).  That means that we don’t have to add another stat to every food in the game.

Now personally I thought that pre-rework Wolfgang was fun and interesting enough.  But I can understand that some people think that getting close to 2x damage was too good.  Well I want to keep the spirit of old Wolfgang alive and just add more things for him to manage in order to make him more interesting, and I think that this idea can achieve just that.

 

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I think that 2 things are what makes Wolfgang not that fun to play and this are the changes that I would like to see:

1 Let me move while training with dumbbells. at the early game, spending the nights training it's okey. But when you actually need to be efficient with your time or if you are in the middle of a fight, being able to move would make it so that you still are playing the game instead of just waiting for a number to fill up.
Here is how i would implement it:

Normal dumbbell: you dont Gain any mightiness while moving, but with the option of moving you could at least dodge stuff.
Goldden dumbell: you dont Loose any mightiness while moving. good for dodging and maintaining mightiness but still no the best option.
Gembell: gain mightiness while moving just as much as when standing still. Good for boss fights.

This is my biggest change, I'm still surprised that you can really regain mightiness while in the middle of a fight.

2 Just a little change. Make wimpy form drain less food. Less muscle, less energy consumption.

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I hate beefalo, I've always hated them, I still hate em.  They don't carry over my 2x damage, I used to speed around fine without them, and the only time I felt I needed one was for statue hauling.

Yet for that small benefit I would have to deal with this big fat leach, blocking my view, constantly begging, and being stuck up my rear in every instance I don't need it to be.

Now I keep looking at them thinking maybe..... JUST MAYBE..... I should start ACTUALLY incorporating it to my gameplay.

But here's the thing "beefalo" have ALWAYS been terrible for Wolfgang. His whole kit doesn't work with beefalo, they don't get my perks, when I power down it STILL stuns my beefalo, I have two big stomachs to manage, I'll have to dismount constantly to access fridge, crockpot and gym or to build on my base and the worst of all.

I can't workout on top of my beefalo.  This has a bunch of problems the biggest one being that the most EASIEST, STRAIGHT FORWARD METHOD to taming a beefalo is to just stay riding it. Constantly riding has many benefits.

1.Constant taming progression

2.Save on resources that would be spent feeding beefalo

3.Beefalo can't shake off saddle

4.Constant beefalo control, no wandering off or waiting for it to approach.

First I get my legs blown off and NOW I DON'T FIT INTO THE WHEELCHAIR AND IT'S ACTIVELY FIGHTING ME. Atleast before I could enter my mighty state or prevent the power down stun if I tried to work with a beefalo, now I can't even do that........Picsart_22-01-10_19-26-55-094.thumb.jpg.811d848964d05c6e41a4ab24d9bf7f02.jpgPicsart_22-01-10_18-53-01-286.thumb.jpg.f6f2bc1cb2f915af049907626aa71a39.jpg

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3 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I hate beefalo, I've always hated them, I still hate em.  They don't carry over my 2x damage, I used to speed around fine without them, and the only time I felt I needed one was for statue hauling.

Yet for that small benefit I would have to deal with this big fat leach, blocking my view, constantly begging, and being stuck up my rear in every instance I don't need it to be.

Now I keep looking at them thinking maybe..... JUST MAYBE..... I should start ACTUALLY incorporating it to my gameplay.

But here's the thing "beefalo" have ALWAYS been terrible for Wolfgang. His whole kit doesn't work with beefalo, they don't get my perks, when I power down it STILL stuns my beefalo, I have two big stomachs to manage, I'll have to dismount constantly to access fridge, crockpot and gym or to build on my base and the worst of all.

I can't workout on top of my beefalo.  This has a bunch of problems the biggest one being that the most EASIEST, STRAIGHT FORWARD METHOD to taming a beefalo is to just stay riding it. Constantly riding has many benefits.

1.Constant taming progression

2.Save on resources that would be spent feeding beefalo

3.Beefalo can't shake off saddle

4.Constant beefalo control, no wandering off or waiting for it to approach.

First I get my legs blown off and NOW I DON'T FIT INTO THE WHEELCHAIR AND IT'S ACTIVELY FIGHTING ME. Atleast before I could enter my mighty state or prevent the power down stun if I tried to work with a beefalo, now I can't even do that........Picsart_22-01-10_19-26-55-094.thumb.jpg.811d848964d05c6e41a4ab24d9bf7f02.jpgPicsart_22-01-10_18-53-01-286.thumb.jpg.f6f2bc1cb2f915af049907626aa71a39.jpg

I mean if you think about it like this, beefalo are surprisingly tame since you can gain its loyalty in a matter of 2 hours and 40 minutes.

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That's 21 days of non stop riding in the first year, most optimal timing for the taming to end is somewhere midwinter but before spring so you don't have to deal with heat most other characters will do this without any hitch.  This is also not including all the dismounting, needed to just cook, workout, and build or resource harvesting you can't stay mounted when going out to sea either.

12 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

I mean if you think about it like this.

The way I'm thinking about it is that they somehow made beefalo even worse for Wolfgang and clunkier too. 

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7 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I hate beefalo, I've always hated them, I still hate em.  They don't carry over my 2x damage, I used to speed around fine without them, and the only time I felt I needed one was for statue hauling. ...

As a character-specific perk, Wolfgang shall now be able to tame Ewecus.  A tamed Ewecus will snare any NPC which is trying to get away from Wolfgang’s mighty damage.

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4 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

That's 21 days of non stop riding in the first year, most optimal timing for the taming to end is somewhere midwinter but before spring so you don't have to deal with heat most other characters will do this without any hitch.  This is also not including all the dismounting, needed to just cook, workout, and build or resource harvesting you can't stay mounted when going out to sea either.

The way I'm thinking about it is that they somehow made beefalo even worse for Wolfgang and clunkier too. 

Yeah but I play Wes.. and Wimpy Wolfgang is still better then Wes.. if you absolutely want to stay on the Beefalo, just stay Wimpy.. if Wes can do it, so can the “not-so” Mighty Wolfgang!

(I’m serious about this.. Beefalo have 1000 HP and Passively regenerate them without your help when not in combat, they also provide speed, damage & sanity boosts: If your wanting to fight a BOSS just drop your not yet tamed Beefalos bell somewhere off screen or hitch it to a post with a nearby salt lick)

I think the biggest problem Wolfgang mains are having adjusting to this rework is Wolfgang didn’t need a Beefalo prior to his rework, they literally were completely avoidable.. But now, just like the rest of the character cast: Getting A Beefalo can prove to be valuable to him.

I wish Klei would “Tweak” him a bit.. such as for example- Being able to while in Mighty use his Beefalo as a portable Gym, and since people say him carrying statues faster isn’t important because that’s what Beef are for.. then just let him put one statue on the Beefalo while Carrying the second one above his head.

This also (at the cost of Backpack slot) allows him to never decrease in Mightiness while riding the Beefalo and holding the Statue.

Thats about all I really feel his rework needs personally.

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I didn't choose Wolfgang to play as a worse Wes and I didn't get a beefalo to replace myself with it like Wes or wendy.  My whole point is that Wolfgang never synergized with a beefalo, and it's even worse now for him.  Working out in base is leaving your beefalo unattended, this is significantly worse when roaming where you're stuck, with waiting on dumbbell for mighty instead of a boss gym so dismounting for a minute straight is terrible for taming.

Wolfgang shouldn't have this problem where none of kit works for or with beefalo. He literally loses all of his perks when mounting a beefalo, whilst taking increased hunger drain and sanity drain. This gets worse when wimpy or going into wimpy.

He'll still take more damage from ranged attacks, have lower insulation, he'll be stunned when powering down which he can't prevent, if you get bucked off you won't have the ability to choose which form you'll be going down in. ALL THIS JUST BECAUSE HE CAN'T WORKOUT ON TOP OF IT this small detail on top of everything else just ruins beefalo even more for Wolfgang.

Spoiler

I used to be able to get mighty on beefalo. Now I can't even do that, what type of rework is this?!? Even after all of his changes, the beefalo exists solely in spite of Wolfgang.

 

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Wortox can still eat/gain/drop souls whilst mounted.  I'm sure wormwood can still bloom on beefalo. I dunno about woodie he suffers like Wolfgang because his actions can't be completed whilst mounted.

I don't see how any of that has to do with Wolfgang being able to lift on top of beefalo though. 

The dumbbell is in his inventory just like wortox's souls.

He can still equip it. Just not use it.

22 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Beefalos are another item, you have a very speed walking cane or a speedy walking cane + cork bat

This is unnecessary. The beefalo is separate entity and acts more like stat boost/wearable.  From what I remember you could still used ranged weapons and hold things like lights whilst the beefalo is still capable of melee through its own damage.

So why can't I lift on it. What is the biggest problem with letting me lift on it. 

The dumbbell ain't on the floor, it ain't out of reach, I'm not asking for much here I already have it my hand. 

The game just doesn't allow lifting on beefalo for no reason except annoyance.

I don't understand what you're arguing for anyways 

The problems the other survivors face are different. Perhaps wortox can only teleport his own body, wormwood needs to be close to the dirt to plant, woodie need to be at the base of the tree to chop.

Wolfgang needing to dismount to lift don't make sense.

So what is your stance then.

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3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that is a suggestion that i liked since the 1st time and i think klei should add it, has much more sense than walking without walkiing cane but with dumbbells to raise his meter

It should have been something they already considered and implemented whilst taking away his speed.  Now it would be more like a fix than addition if they were to add it in cause it just doesn't make sense that he can't.  I want real suggestions that add choices.... not something should already have been there.

Walking with a dumbbell is a good option to be implemented atleast if it slows the might drain don't know why you hate it. Early autumn when no cane is available, walking around in short distances in base or doing maintenance work, switching between cane and dumbbell depending on if you need speed or mighty maintenance.

This actually adds a variety of options to gameplay and interacting with the dumbbells not only that but it would probably also work on beefalo.

I want options, not tweaks.

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39 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

It should have been something they already considered and implemented whilst taking away his speed.

I want options, not tweaks.

Yeah, that's all Wolfgang's "refresh" was.  A big nerf, and some odd tweaks :\

Klei has done so well with other refreshes and releases, sucks they missed the mark so far here.  Sucks more that everyone gotta bring in their whataboutisms in like new Wolfgang is secretly good and we just haven't figured out that standing still pumping weights and building a dozen gyms across the maps is actually good or something.  Like you get off your beefalo and lift weights only to see them shake off their saddle, its frustrating for you, but NOP they gotta have 29837423 reasons why you're the one who's wrong when its your character that got lampooned b/c they got a new minigame to play...

And not a word from Klei, so I'm pretty sure we're just getting what we got.  Such a destructive refresh, so much discontent, Klei gonna move on.  Hope they don't approach WX and wicker like this...

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3 hours ago, shadowtiger123 said:

so is wolfgang getting the speed buff or update anymore? cause is is already mid jan and there seem to be no change despite many original wolfgang main players dislike the mechanic and removal of speed buff

They stated that the speed perk was gone permanently and won’t be back, but they did not state that the rework was fully finalized and they’re moving on: It took Two Weeks after Wendy’s Rework to get her Re-Rework.. Wolfgang’s will take slightly Longer because his Rework came out during Christmas Holiday break and Klei didn’t officially return to work until January 4, they also don’t make ANY Announcements usually until Thursday- 

So you’ll either hear something later today or more most likely, you will hear something NEXT Thursday, however there is a not yet released patch that the Dev Team has informed those of us on XBOX about that will finally fix the graphical issues on the Corrupted Walking Cane… 

So yes another update is coming, but we have no idea if it includes tweaks to Wolfgang or if it’s just a visual fix for the Xbox Visual bug.. (Console version is often behind PC in update releases due to not being able to do console Hotfixes like they can PC)

With that said: they defiantly said speed would not be re-added back to Wolfgang.. 

And that’s fine by me: because They probably have plans to release a new crockpot dish similar to:

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Soothing_Tea
 

Except for temporary boosts of Speed instead Sanity Restoring Teas..

In fact I’d almost be willing to bet all my gambling chips that they’re considering it in some capacity.

Guess we will know soon enough when details about Year of the Catcoon and the 2022 Roadmap start pouring in.

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On 1/13/2022 at 6:46 AM, Mike23Ua said:

They stated that the speed perk was gone permanently and won’t be back, but they did not state that the rework was fully finalized and they’re moving on: It took Two Weeks after Wendy’s Rework to get her Re-Rework.. Wolfgang’s will take slightly Longer because his Rework came out during Christmas Holiday break and Klei didn’t officially return to work until January 4, they also don’t make ANY Announcements usually until Thursday- 

So you’ll either hear something later today or more most likely, you will hear something NEXT Thursday, however there is a not yet released patch that the Dev Team has informed those of us on XBOX about that will finally fix the graphical issues on the Corrupted Walking Cane… 

So yes another update is coming, but we have no idea if it includes tweaks to Wolfgang or if it’s just a visual fix for the Xbox Visual bug.. (Console version is often behind PC in update releases due to not being able to do console Hotfixes like they can PC)

With that said: they defiantly said speed would not be re-added back to Wolfgang.. 

And that’s fine by me: because They probably have plans to release a new crockpot dish similar to:

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Soothing_Tea
 

Except for temporary boosts of Speed instead Sanity Restoring Teas..

In fact I’d almost be willing to bet all my gambling chips that they’re considering it in some capacity.

Guess we will know soon enough when details about Year of the Catcoon and the 2022 Roadmap start pouring in.

We have very different definitions of the world “probably”

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2 hours ago, Toros said:

We have very different definitions of the world “probably”

Wasn’t everyone’s issues with Wolfgang that he had built in speed? Isn’t that why Klei removed it in the first place? (Also according to some it wasn’t ever meant to be on him at all but they kept it in..) 
So if Wes’s favorite food dish is a food only Warly can actually make..

Why can’t Speed for all characters also be locked behind something like Wilson’s Mad Scientist lab potions? (Or if you want to get technical… cleverly re-skinned Shipwrecked Coffee)

See Your looking at things from the perspective of nerfs/buffs to a single character (Wolfgang) MEANWHILE: Klei is looking at these changes they make for the “Long-Term”

There is a very high probability (Like Wes) Wilson will have a Consumable Speed Buff- Wes can literally craft and give Speedy Balloons to other players: Yeah they mostly suck (technically cleverly reskinned much worse Shipwrecked Coffee…) but that’s not my point: My point is a character who had no craftable items at all has a Consumable Speed Boost..

So yeah your absolutely right, we have two very different definitions of the word “Probably”

But you also can’t invalidate the above facts about Wes.

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40 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wasn’t everyone’s issues with Wolfgang that he had built in speed? Isn’t that why Klei removed it in the first place? (Also according to some it wasn’t ever meant to be on him at all but they kept it in..) 
So if Wes’s favorite food dish is a food only Warly can actually make..

Why can’t Speed for all characters also be locked behind something like Wilson’s Mad Scientist lab potions? (Or if you want to get technical… cleverly re-skinned Shipwrecked Coffee)

See Your looking at things from the perspective of nerfs/buffs to a single character (Wolfgang) MEANWHILE: Klei is looking at these changes they make for the “Long-Term”

There is a very high probability (Like Wes) Wilson will have a Consumable Speed Buff- Wes can literally craft and give Speedy Balloons to other players: Yeah they mostly suck (technically cleverly reskinned much worse Shipwrecked Coffee…) but that’s not my point: My point is a character who had no craftable items at all has a Consumable Speed Boost..

So yeah your absolutely right, we have two very different definitions of the word “Probably”

But you also can’t invalidate the above facts about Wes.

Or, they saw how coffee warped the meta of shipwrecked and wisely decided that consumable speed buffs were bad for the game.

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12 minutes ago, Toros said:

Or, they saw how coffee warped the meta of shipwrecked and wisely decided that consumable speed buffs were bad for the game.

As much as I liked sw coffee, from a game balance perspective it isn't good.  Everything would need to be retuned to accommodate for players having access to it, which in turn could adversely effects those who don't.

This is why I don't mind Wolfgang's speed being removed.  Having some unique mechanics like Wanda's backstep or Wheeler's dash are one thing, having a constant speed mod on top of (and stacking with) all other speed mods is different though.

I do mind that he was given a boring and tedious mechanics to get and maintain mighty.  It changes him to be best played from Wimpy except for the few occasions the investment of time going mighty actually pays off.  idk why anyone is wasting their time running around being mighty 24/7, they're literally losing game time doing this, its basically a negative speed modifier.

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24 minutes ago, Toros said:

Or, they saw how coffee warped the meta of shipwrecked and wisely decided that consumable speed buffs were bad for the game.

If Klei felt consumable speed buffs were bad for the game Wes wouldn’t have one.. you can Craft Speedy Balloons and give them to anyone as Wes- While they still mostly suck.. they’re also still very much technically a consumable speed boost (they even have visual sound animations & sound effects until they become useless) I didn’t say they WERE SW Coffee.. I said they were “Like” SW Coffee.

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6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If Klei felt consumable speed buffs were bad for the game Wes wouldn’t have one.. you can Craft Speedy Balloons and give them to anyone as Wes- While they still mostly suck.. they’re also still very much technically a consumable speed boost (they even have visual sound animations & sound effects until they become useless) I didn’t say they WERE SW Coffee.. I said they were “Like” SW Coffee.

The speedy balloon is short lasting, and takes the hand slot so it doesn't provide any interaction that doesn't already exist with a cane.  This is different then if you add another speed boost on top of cane, magi, etc.

Same thing for damage boosts - because of how they stack it would be a big deal to add any new ones that effect every player the way Warly's dishes do - so suggestions of letting non-Wolfgang players pump his weights for a damage increase, even a small one, would actually have pretty big implications.  An example of this is Chili Powder.  Its 20% damage increase might seem pretty small but because it stacks with everything else its the icing on top that kicks Wolfgang up from 5x (mighty, lightning, wet target) to 6x (mighty, lightning, wet target, chili seasoning.)

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