So hows Wolfgang?

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, Bones Junior said:

The fact his whole kit was engineered around eating food, as if that was really a cost, was the issue. Do not over look that. That's so free, for high stats, extra speed and double damage. No character gets that. You need to go to certain places, progress some, get some season items etc. And Wolfgang just munched. It's not comparable seriously.

The argument isn't that other characters can't boss. Even Wes can. That's not what I'm claiming at all. Experience is the biggest factor in this game. Knowledge is key.

I'm not defending Wanda at all. I have her unlocked but refuse to play her. I just feel like her gimmick is too much. I honestly rather just enjoy the game than demolish it. Seriously. I do think Wanda goes against a lot of what klei was trying to build the last 2 years.

Why would you make this post complaining about Wolfgang not having any set up and prep pre-rework and I agree just munching food was too good to gain his perks- however Wanda has most her Kit locked behind needing to gather gems, resources, and doesn’t reach her power until reaching Magic tier craft stations.

Reworked Wolfgang now requires gathering resources and unlocking the ability to combine red+Blue gems into purples..

Klei took away his “Super Pill” and locked his power away behind what every other character has to do: Progression.

But NOW that he no longer has that “Super Pill” and actually has to DO SOMETHING to gather the resources for his crafts: He doesn’t feel powerful enough

(especially compared to Wanda..)

Klei Nerfed his Super Pill, but didn’t bother to make being “Mighty” more Interesting in more ways then just dealing 2x damage now that becoming Mighty now requires more effort than a handful snacks.

[Blunty_x]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why would you make this post complaining about Wolfgang not having any set up and prep pre-rework and I agree just munching food was too good to gain his perks- however Wanda has most her Kit locked behind needing to gather gems, resources, and doesn’t reach her power until reaching Magic tier craft stations.

Reworked Wolfgang now requires gathering resources and unlocking the ability to combine red+Blue gems into purples..

Klei took away his “Super Pill” and locked his power away behind what every other character has to do: Progression.

But NOW that he no longer has that “Super Pill” and actually has to DO SOMETHING to gather the resources for his crafts: He doesn’t feel powerful enough

(especially compared to Wanda..)

Klei Nerfed his Super Pill, but didn’t bother to make being “Mighty” more Interesting in more ways then just dealing 2x damage now that becoming Mighty now requires more effort than a handful snacks.

Shosuko said it best already. He gained his ability eating, at the cost of 1.5 to 3x hunger drain, this means he needed 3x the resources to keep himself alive compared to other survivors. 

Now progression is an Interesting word. Because like Sho said. Wendy comes ready to go, Webber with a spider queen is ready to go, Wendy is raring to go. Heck, Wormwood can start planting from his first seed, Wortox just needs souls and he starts with 6. WX and Wanda need progression but once he is maxed that's it, once she has her clocks that's it.. your argument here isn't valid 

[Atkvin]

The more I think on it the more it feels like they were designing Wolfgang to be a foil to Wanda in gameplay.

Wanda has three forms, is strongest but frailest at her oldest, and gradually transitions to that form over time due to aging. Wolfgang also has three forms, but is weakest and most useless at low might, and gradually transitions to that form as might decreases with time.

However, unlike Wolf Wanda's younger form is just as desirable as her powerful old form, because old Wanda works slower and is prone to sudden death from damage or just aging in that form. It is also very easy to transition between them, even in combat she can sneak a heal in with good timing due to the fast animation, or just take a few hits to become old.

Wolf's weak form in comparison, has no redeeming qualities. No faster movement speed due to being smaller but quicker, slower working in activities, he IS the drawback to Wolf, and the only remedy is a sick inversion of Wanda's traits where you need to spend time building him up thru standing still and working out. Paired with Wanda's monstrous utility and travel outside of combat it definitely makes Wolf feel way less fun, interesting or powerful to play.

[PetulantPansy]

51 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Wolfgang was never loved, he was respected for his strength but the community hated him that much was clear.

He had a crappy YouTuber represent him, he was viewed as a toxic and a selfish character, and he was joked as for "elites".

There was clearly a hate boner bias extended towards Wolfgang, and once he got reworked there was a big 180° not enough to sway past 40%-50% people still clearly were having some kind of vendetta or they had no real opinion on the matter.

Even more people wanted to avoid conflict.

  Hide contents

It was like a warzone, I saw people get torn to shreds and blown up just for voicing their opinion.

  Reveal hidden contents

SO OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T WANNA TAKE PART THEY DIDN'T NEED TO..... THEY WERE SAFER ON THE SIDELINE.

 

But eventually people saw the light that is this BS bias towards the strongman.

I'm sorry but this argument doesn't make much sense and I feel like I'm still talking in a circle. The numbers still don't lie and ~20% of the community based on this small sample size dislikes the rework. Klei said that they would listen to the feedback and suggestions and that's one of the major things that they should pay attention to. They need to understand what the community wants and not the specific suggestions of individual commenters. Don't get me wrong - there was good feedback offered and everyone's feedback matters. However, as the poll here shows, only a minority has an actual problem with the rework. Does Klei have to fix or change everything that only 20% of the community has a problem with?

 

So I guess now you want to just argue that the ~50% of the people who actually like the rework are just wolfgang haters... ok.

 

Allow me to propose the idea that the rework isn't actually that bad and makes him still fun to play as. You can quickly scroll through youtube to get some thoughts on the rework and I don't see a lot of videos by seasoned players complaining about everything regarding this rework. There are even seasoned players who say that the reworked wolfgang is easier to play and stronger than the old wolfgang (their words, not mine). What's there to dislike about that?

[Cloakingsumo198]

7 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Snip-o

Literally any Wolfgang video I've looked into for this rework has had their uploader give a mixed reaction or question klei's motive/approach just like most complaints on these forums lol.

Also it's 18% people don't like it straight up whilst 21% aren't completely satisfied.

You're just gonna ignore 40% of a group? You suck as a party planner lol.

[PetulantPansy]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Literally any Wolfgang video I've looked into for this rework has had their uploader give a mixed reaction or question klei's motive/approach just like most complaints on these forums lol.

Also it's 18% people don't like it straight up whilst 21% aren't completely satisfied.

You're just gonna ignore 40% of a group? You suck as a party planner lol.

That's fair, most of the youtubers give mixed reviews. But then again this is a nerf. Let's be realistic. You're not going to have 70% of the player enjoy the nerfed version of a character more. As I said previously, it shouldn't be surprising that there is a portion of the player base that isn't completely satisfied with a nerf. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, PetulantPansy said:

That's fair, most of the youtubers give mixed reviews. But then again this is a nerf. Let's be realistic. You're not going to have 70% of the player enjoy the nerfed version of a character more. As I said previously, it shouldn't be surprising that there is a portion of the player base that isn't completely satisfied with a nerf. 

Then they shouldn't have nerfed him.

People that enjoy the new him are also spending whole days standing still apparently or having fun tossing dumbbells at birds which doesn't amount to much.

What does that say about their level of game sense or skill level of those opinions lmao.

Spoiler

Not to say being a noob invalidates your opinion of course not.

No. Never. Dead serious.

Just that there used to be something way better and cooler

Something that rewarded having some game sense and knowledge.

There used to be a skill floor and ceiling.

Now that's completely gone and if you never experienced it at the top, you'll never get to experience it now because it's gone...

That's because of how flat, unengaging, and straight forward this new wolf is for anybody familiar enough with the game. Now he's just nothing special.

 

[PetulantPansy]

Yeah because we totally need to buff a character that already does the equivalent damage of 2 normal characters and requires half the prep for anything in comparison to any of the other survivors. Oh... and all he has to do to achieve his perk is to eat, which is literally what every other character does in a game called don't *starve* together. 

 

Look man, I respect your opinions and understand that he's more tedious to play as. For me, the perks are still worth it and the removal of the faster hunger drain makes him easier to play. 

 

At the end of the day, the numbers still don't lie and ~20% of the players dislike the rework per this poll. I don't want to break your heart but I would imagine that this isn't going to be the #1 priority the developers are working on when a minority of the community has a problem with him.  

[Cloakingsumo198]

5 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Oh... and all he has to do to achieve his perk is to eat, which is literally what every other character does in a game called don't *starve* together.   

Wendy and wigfrid moment. Oh all they have to do to get their perk is "exist".

[UbiAnomaly]

1 minute ago, PetulantPansy said:

At the end of the day, the numbers still don't lie and ~20% of the players dislike the rework per this poll. I don't want to break your heart but I would imagine that this isn't going to be the #1 priority the developers are working on when a minority of the community has a problem with him.  

The day the entire DST community resides on the forums will be the day the player-base consists of less than 100 members.

There are a lot of unheard voices here (ex. 90% of players of the game).

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Yeah because we totally need to buff a character that already does the equivalent damage of 2 normal characters and requires half the prep for anything in comparison to any of the other survivors. Oh... and all he has to do to achieve his perk is to eat, which is literally what every other character does in a game called don't *starve* together. 

idk - once you consider Wanda, Wolfgang is actually doing more than her before and after rework :\ and in both cases his tax of time and resources is continual where her resource and time efficiency are even further enhanced than what he got with simple 2x damage and speed boost.

[Dextops]

4 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Look man, I respect your opinions and understand that he's more tedious to play as. For me, the perks are still worth it and the removal of the faster hunger drain makes him easier to play. 

just about all his new perks are things walter has and beefalo have

5 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Yeah because we totally need to buff a character that already does the equivalent damage of 2 normal characters and requires half the prep for anything in comparison to any of the other survivors. Oh... and all he has to do to achieve his perk is to eat, which is literally what every other character does in a game called don't *starve* together. 

 

he wasn't op i'd say he was pretty balanced since damage isn't that useful and half the prep time is eh when you can simply use a hambat and some football helmet as any character and be just as effective and his eating was a pretty big downside people seem to undermine a 3x hunger drain is pretty insane and a 1.5x hunger drain while having no perks was also a good downside and wasted time no matter what stage of the game you were in and this rework did actually buff him since his speed wasn't really good and they made his damage better slightly

[Cloakingsumo198]

7 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Look man, I respect your opinions and understand that he's more tedious to play as.

Spoiler

Respect deez

If you understand that he's tedious you can leave it there.

I don't need your consolations I can respect that he is easier for you, but not you trying to validate your own opinion by backing yourself with the "masses" instead of just arguing it yourself.

[PetulantPansy]

That's because I'm not interested in having an argument with anyone and why I've stayed off this forum/topic until this thing popped on to the first page again (/facepalm). I have never once tried to validate my opinion. The one thing I've done this entire time is point to some numbers and explain the meaning behind said numbers. 

 

(oh, but rework bad! "Masses" just don't like wolfgang! Opinion of "masses" doesn't matter!)

 

It's ok. Have a nice day

 

 

[Vultureneck]

45 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Does Klei have to fix or change everything that only 20% of the community has a problem with?

I guess it depends on what your perception on what a major part of the community is, if less than 50% of people actually like the rework does that feel like it's in a good spot? 

[PetulantPansy]

6 minutes ago, Vultureneck said:

I guess it depends on what your perception on what a major part of the community is, if less than 50% of people actually like the rework does that feel like it's in a good spot? 

Well again it's a nerf. You're not going to have 80% of the community say that they like a nerf. I would be really surprised if that ever happens. Given the options if you have around half the people say they like the rework, it's probably in an ok spot. But that's up for the developers to decide - not me.  

[Mike23Ua]

17 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Well again it's a nerf. You're not going to have 80% of the community say that they like a nerf. I would be really surprised if that ever happens. Given the options if you have around half the people say they like the rework, it's probably in an ok spot. But that's up for the developers to decide - not me.  

The only thing that was truly Nerfed about Wolfgang was his speed, everything else about his rework actually was a buff for example: You can be Starving to death with no food at all and still be topped off in Might.

That may not mean much of anything to the pros who quote “Mastered Wolfgang’s 3x hunger drain” and could eat every 4 seconds to keep his hunger from ever going down so he retained his full strength, but for a Casual player they no longer have to be completely & totally screwed when their hunger drops AND they revert to Wimpy..

In fact I bet if there were some actual stats of how long people stay in Wimpy form after his rework as opposed to before: you’d be surprised to learn that those numbers are much lower now.

There are several reasons for this: Stone Dumbells are easy to craft AND you start the game with one.. So there’s literally very few times you’ll ever be “Wimpy” Average..? That’s a different story but full blown Wimpy?? I’m willing to bet it’s a lot less now on Casuals then it was when their hunger drained faster then pre-rework Wes.

Might is not tied to hunger so you can literally be starving to death and still topped of in might for persistent 2x double damage. (although might will drain away faster the hungrier you are..) your still not “Wimpy” 

Hound Wave warnings at 300+ days last long enough that with a Gem or even just Gold Dumbell you will be able to buff up long enough to take them on before they arrive.

Not to mention: Klei is designing these characters reworks around the Return of Them dlc updates: Which if no one at all was paying attention to that- Revolves EXCLUSIVELY around standing still on a moving circular platform to go to other places.

Sure.. I guess old Wolfgang could’ve carried an entire fridge with him on boating expeditions and just bundle his super market of foods up for the trip, but that requires a crap ton load more effort then just twirling a silly bell over your head for a few seconds while you stand on this circular platform surrounded by a body of Water.

Like it or not: the Entirety of the Return of Them updates were themed around Boat Cookies- Even the parts you will DEBATE against me that Weren’t actually ARE..

You need to go on a boat to complete ROT that’s not my opinion, that’s Fact.. 

You will need Pearls Quest line to complete Crab Kings Questline to get Celestial Alter to fight CC, and I’m also willing to bet that these 3 upcoming QoL updates and 3 “setting the stage” updates will focus even more on boating and ocean content.

Like it or not.. standing around on a platform as you travel to places is a core part of the game, and will continue to be a core part of the game going forward.

And I for one am glad I can be low on hunger whilst on these boating trips while twirling a Dumbell to top off Mightiness before doing something like smashing cookie cutters or engaging with water logged content.

Instead of complaining endlessly about the Wolfgang rework, maybe perhaps consider WHY he was Reworked.. Klei has their reasons I assure you- and over the course of 2022-2023 we will see those reasons play out.

Who knows- Maxwells rework may even boost his strength to do crazy things like it does in Wolfgang’s animated short.

[Cloakingsumo198]

55 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Snip  

Your whole argument has been that since only 18% of people dislike the rework ENTIRELY there shouldn't be any extra development set to polishing Wolfgang. Why.

You also willfully ignoring 21% of people who aren't completely happy with what came out. Why.

You're whole "thing" here has been about the poll. Even though it's still a pretty close poll.

And calling it a nerf, why does Wolfgang have to be nerfed in his own rework?

It's not even just nerfs. Wolfgang got some real nerfs like the speed removal, less HP, and increased sanity drain.

But even his reworked mechanics kinda SUCK and for what?

So you're gonna come in here with your whole number fixation whilst trying to invalidate other opinions because they are minorities in your numbers.

You chose to post your piece and you'll receive anybody else's. This isn't an argument you're being critiqued

It's ok. Have a nice day

[Blunty_x]

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

I'll take that bet on mightiness now over before. Bring out the source. I'd argue for a casual player, if your starving  and going wimpy, which now takes more damage and is susceptible to cold and hot isn't having a good time. If your starving, why are you topping off mightiness..your not only wasting time but resources on the dumbells..and that mightiness isn't gonna last very long so you better hope you kill whatever your fighting or your gonna get hurt on the transformation...I hope casuals don't play alone cause now they have increased sanity drain and will be constantly swarmed with NM creatures. 

Woo-hoo boating!! What they've tried pushing, but most casuals (atleast from all the pub games I've played) hardly if ever boat, I wonder. I boat to finish the content and get of the boat asap. Cause standing on a moving platform isn't very fun imho. Of course that's subjective. YOU would rather be starving with a dumbell in hand and a very quickly decreasing might meter. I would rather be able to control it In seconds. Full belly or no. 

[Gashzer]

18 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Snip

You're still crying over the wolfgang rework? Suppose everyone needs a hobby.... 

[GelatinousCube]

6 minutes ago, Blunty_x said:

I'll take that bet on mightiness now over before. Bring out the source. I'd argue for a casual player, if your starving  and going wimpy, which now takes more damage and is susceptible to cold and hot isn't having a good time. If your starving, why are you topping off mightiness..your not only wasting time but resources on the dumbells..and that mightiness isn't gonna last very long so you better hope you kill whatever your fighting or your gonna get hurt on the transformation...I hope casuals don't play alone cause now they have increased sanity drain and will be constantly swarmed with NM creatures. 

Woo-hoo boating!! What they've tried pushing, but most casuals (atleast from all the pub games I've played) hardly if ever boat, I wonder. I boat to finish the content and get of the boat asap. Cause standing on a moving platform isn't very fun imho. Of course that's subjective. YOU would rather be starving with a dumbell in hand and a very quickly decreasing might meter. I would rather be able to control it In seconds. Full belly or no. 

Hey dude! Long time no see! I think you helped me do metheus a few years ago and helped me with super crab king and I think FW when I was far less experienced with the game, thanks again for all that =D You taught me some neat tricks and strategies!

Btw just throwing this out there in regards to Wolfgang discussion. Pets count as allies for the sanity drain so solo players can still avoid the increased sanity drain. Some may find this too annoying with the pet noises but it is a work around for solo players regarding the sanity drain mechanic.

[Cloakingsumo198]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

 I want to provoke you.

Yeah these forums are pretty fun. We're all waiting on more from Klei.