Very Low FPS early in the game

[Aiser10]

Hello there,

I just started playing this game and built my first colony. I noticed the performance decreasing rapidly playing through the first Cycles and while increasing the base size. I´ve read that you can run into problems with performance late in the game but Im not even close to the mid-game. The FPS are between 11 to 14. Im in Cycle ~13 with 7 Duplicants.

What I´ve tried so far:

• Turn off Game Mode from Windows
• Update every driver (bios, windows update, chipset, graphics card)
• Set the priority to realtime in task manager
• Tried switching to one core and back to all cores in task manager
• Enabling Full Screen and low resolution textures ingame
• Set energy option in the settings from windows to highest performance
• Starting the game as an administrator
• Using this start options: "-high -USEALLAVAILABLECORES -vsync false"
• Tried turning off one monitor in the windows settings and only run with the second one
• Tweaking the settings in Amd Radeon Software
• Collecting every material that lies on the ground (Increased FPS by a maximum of 1)

Please see the attached Screenshots for a reference of base size and for benchmarks in the top left.

My System:

Betriebsystemname:                                            Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Version:                                                               10.0.19044 Build 19044
Zusätzliche Betriebsystembeschreibung:             Nicht verfügbar
Betriebsystemhersteller:                                      Microsoft Corporation
Systemhersteller:                                                 Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
Systemmodell:                                                      B450 AORUS PRO
Systemtyp:                                                           x64-basierter PC
System-SKU:                                                        Default string
Prozessor:                                                            AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Six-Core Processor, 3400 MHz, 6 Kern(e), 12 logische(r) Prozessor(en)
BIOS-Version/-Datum:                                          American Megatrends International, LLC. F61, 13.07.2021
SMBIOS-Version:                                                 3.3
Version des eingebetteten Controllers:                255.255
BIOS-Modus:                                                        UEFI
BaseBoard-Hersteller:                                          Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
BaseBoard-Produkt:                                             B450 AORUS PRO-CF
BaseBoard-Version:                                              x.x
Plattformrolle:                                                       Desktop
Sicherer Startzustand:                                          Aus
PCR7-Konfiguration:                                            Bindung nicht möglich
Windows-Verzeichnis:                                          C:\Windows
Systemverzeichnis:                                              C:\Windows\system32
Startgerät:                                                            \Device\HarddiskVolume4

Ram Speed:                                                         3000 Mhz (XMP enabled)
Installierter physischer Speicher (RAM):              16,0 GB
Gesamter physischer Speicher:                           15,9 GB
Verfügbarer physischer Speicher:                        11,4 GB
Gesamter virtueller Speicher:                               27,4 GB
Verfügbarer virtueller Speicher:                           18,3 GB
Größe der Auslagerungsdatei:                            11,5 GB
Kernel-DMA-Schutz:                                             Aus
Virtualisierungsbasierte Sicherheit:                      Nicht aktiviert
Unterstützung der Geräteverschlüsselung:          Ursachen dafür, dass die automatische Geräteverschlüsselung nicht erfolgreich war: Das TPM ist nicht verwendbar., Die PCR7-Bindung wird nicht unterstützt., Fehler bei der Schnittstelle für Hardwaresicherheitstests. Das Gerät unterstützt kein Modern-Standby., Unzulässige DMA-fähige Busse/Geräte erkannt, Das TPM ist nicht verwendbar.

Hyper-V - VM-Monitormoduserweiterungen:         Ja
Hyper-V - SLAT-Erweiterungen (Second Level Address Translation):    Ja
Hyper-V - Virtualisierung in Firmware aktiviert:    Nein
Hyper-V - Datenausführungsverhinderung:         Ja

 

Hope you can help me. Thanks in advance.

[babba]

Dont` shoot the messenger, many thanks @Aiser10

Practically the game will utilize around 1,5 cores. As general simplification: The more cores players normally show up with, the worse the game runs ( large l1/l2/l3 cpu caches make up for it, plus improved modern cpu architecture ).

You can try to deactivate your 6 virtual cpu cores, that avoid some resource sharing. However, this effectively can play out ( less FPS degrading ) in fully built up large endgame maps. Virtual core numbers look great on the cpu box packaging for marketing wows, for gaming -> Deactivate.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

$$$ Solution:

Replace board/cpu with:

or AMD equivalent in next year and/or wait 5 years ( if Klei then still works on the game ) for more FPS improvements...which most likely will be nullified with future added game content.

Its Monday... Maybe your system also has other problems, I don`t know. Perhaps attach your save game, then others can investigate and/or FPS compare. As you are so early in the game, it might be some other cause which makes you play at low FPS.

Your RAM values look good, using around 5.5GB with ONI. I am not sure if your system is using virtual memory RAM <> DISK, please check that. Ensure that your system is only using your real RAM which is sticking in your board. Maybe your computer is overloaded with something else or has some form of bottleneck. Good luck my friend, keep investigating I hope you find the cause.

If you want to upgrade at some point, AMD will sooner or later counter the current Intel lead in Single Threading. I`m glad there is competition at work, also with Apple nowadays in the cpu arena.

I forgot:

YOU GOT ONI MODS RUNNING ?

Please check 5 times !

If no mods, a fresh game should show 60FPS with your system in the games beginning. Something is wrong...What is with your GPU ? Did you bang a graphic card from 2000 in to the system In your screenshots the tiny load on your gpu looks good though.

[SharraShimada]

I run ONI on an "old" i5 4460 (4x3400MHz) and it runs just fine, even with a quadruple amount of mods. 

But yeah: First: If you run mods, check them. If you ran mods (but not anymore) CHECK IT. If the save is from running with mods, its the mod. Even if its not there anymore, it may has left crap in your file. 

If you have another hard drive, copy the game to there and try again. Especially when the drive is the one with windows on it.

Then make an exception for ONI in your anti-virus (yes also when you use the one build in in windows) 

If nothing helps, remove the game. Uninstall, remove all the subfolders from own files and appdata. Then make a clean fresh install and try a new game.

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, babba said:

AMD will sooner or later counter the current Intel lead in Single Threading.

it can happen yes but for how long and for what price? intel does testing already 13 series cpu what comes out at some-point in next year as well soo they not sleep either.

also if you notice AMD Ryzen 9 5950X is behind already 700 points in single thread and that price is still high as current best intel

if amd tactic is that they jump ahead allot then yes they win this lead again, but that comes again with what price.

when amd comes out with his new cpu, you to probaply need new motherboard as well, also does they cpu support both ddr4/ddr5 ?

intel also suprice amd with pcie 5 support , soo currently amd have very busy days

[gabberworld]

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 is not good for this game, there been only one user who come close to almost same results what intel offer, but he use the OC and he used the AMD Ryzen 5 5600x

[NewWorldDan]

5 hours ago, gabberworld said:

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 is not good for this game, there been only one user who come close to almost same results what intel offer, but he use the OC and he used the AMD Ryzen 5 5600x

I have a Ryzen 5 2600 and a GTX 1660 and the game runs just fine for me.  It only starts to slow down when my colony has expanded to multiple asteroids, and even at that, things are ok running the game at 2x speed.

[Aiser10]

10 hours ago, babba said:

Practically the game will utilize around 1,5 cores. As general simplification: The more cores players normally show up with, the worse the game runs ( large l1/l2/l3 cpu caches make up for it, plus improved modern cpu architecture ).

You can try to deactivate your 6 virtual cpu cores, that avoid some resource sharing. However, this effectively can play out ( less FPS degrading ) in fully built up large endgame maps. Virtual core numbers look great on the cpu box packaging for marketing wows, for gaming -> Deactivate.

Your RAM values look good, using around 5.5GB with ONI. I am not sure if your system is using virtual memory RAM <> DISK, please check that. Ensure that your system is only using your real RAM which is sticking in your board. Maybe your computer is overloaded with something else or has some form of bottleneck. Good luck my friend, keep investigating I hope you find the cause.

I forgot:

YOU GOT ONI MODS RUNNING ?

Please check 5 times !

If no mods, a fresh game should show 60FPS with your system in the games beginning. Something is wrong...What is with your GPU ? Did you bang a graphic card from 2000 in to the system In your screenshots the tiny load on your gpu looks good though.

Im not gonna shoot the messenger no worries

I deactivated SMT int BIOS with no change in FPS. I found that affiliating 6 cores with the game word better (around 2 more FPS)

I deactivated Virtual Memory Ram with no results in Performance.

I dont have any mods installed except for the german Translations. I did ditch that and started a new game but nothing new.

I deleted everything from this game including my save as @gabberworld pointed out (saved my savegame on the desktop) and installed the game on a hard drive where there is not windows installed. No change

@babba a fresh game has 30 fps with my CPU.

For fun I tried running the game on my surface laptop 1 with an intel i5-7200U with a much lower base and boost clock, Higher resolution because of the screen ratio and fewer cores (2 core CPU) but It performed way better running the same gamesave...

Is there no way to optimize this game for AMD CPU´s?

 

Attached my savegame

Star Flight Crew.sav

55 minutes ago, NewWorldDan said:

I have a Ryzen 5 2600 and a GTX 1660 and the game runs just fine for me.  It only starts to slow down when my colony has expanded to multiple asteroids, and even at that, things are ok running the game at 2x speed.

Wow alright then my rig is just bugged then I guess idk. I have a Power Color RX 480 OC but in this game graphics doesnt matter at all, so this shouldnt be the problem.

[babba]

@Aiser10 I have not investigated, but I think I remember that the early Ryzen cpu cores share l1/l2/l3 caches. It could be that the games used ~1,5 cores do not have enough/full access to the cpu caches - Maybe they receive a fixed portion of the cpu cache`s cake, managed by the cpu, board, bios and the OS. If your cpu would only have 2 cores and would be able to fully utilize the other specs of your processor, then the game would run great in the beginning for you. ONI benefits greatly from fat, big, modern cpu caches and a permanent high base GHz clock.

Remember the list, if you someday upgrade - The ONI game performance scales accordingly. I feel sorry for you my friend

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

If you someday upgrade, aim for at least 4000 score in the list. As you can not hand out hot coffee`s, maybe give us some likes

May the FPS be always with you, babba

[Aiser10]

2 minutes ago, babba said:

@Aiser10 I have not investigated, but I think I remember that the early Ryzen cpu`s share l1/l2/l3 cache`s. It could be that the games used ~1,5 cores do not have enough/full access to the cpu caches - Maybe they receive a fixed portion of the cake. If you cpu would only have 2 cores and would be able to fully utilize the other specs of your processor, then the game would run great in the beginning for you.

Remember the list, if you someday upgrade - The ONI game performance scales accordingly. I feel sorry for you my friend

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

If you someday upgrade, aim for at least 4000 score in the list. As you can not hand out hot coffee`s, maybe give us some likes

May the FPS be always with you, babba

If I buy a new CPU I would also buy a new system overall. So im waiting for GPU pricing to calm down and Zen 4 or something nice from Intel. So that will at the earliest be Summer of 2023. Before that I want to continue playing with my current setup. Since @NewWorldDan said that his 2600 works just fine I will consider resetting my PC. Maybe that will help. Before that Im going to use the AMD CleanUp Tool to deinstall all the drivers and reinstall them later.

[gabberworld]

15 minutes ago, Aiser10 said:

If I buy a new CPU I would also buy a new system overall. So im waiting for GPU pricing to calm down and Zen 4 or something nice from Intel. So that will at the earliest be Summer of 2023. Before that I want to continue playing with my current setup. Since @NewWorldDan said that his 2600 works just fine I will consider resetting my PC. Maybe that will help. Before that Im going to use the AMD CleanUp Tool to deinstall all the drivers and reinstall them later.

you don't need super GPU for this game, this game needs super CPU with fast memory, as tests shows even old GPU at NVIDIA rtx 970 runs just fine as far you have good cpu.

[babba]

@Aiser10 Yeah, the system with your specs should run the game fine in the beginning - Good luck

Here is one of my maps played on my i7 7700k, 1 kilo cpu air cooler, no case, max juice for board and cpu ( my ONi board and cpu suck up to 200 Watts with the endgame large map single colony), deactivated Hyperthreading and applied metal fluid between the cpu die and lid. Its sad that I can not get my cpu down to 2 cores, that would be perfect.

I will build a new ONI system once there is a 5000 Passmark score single threader on the market for $300. I play with 50-500 dupes but with no critters. For FPS reasons and (past?) Klei bug crashes I am still working on my first and only colony.

 

[gabberworld]

 

50 minutes ago, babba said:

@Aiser10 Yeah, the system with your specs should run the game fine - Good luck

Here is one of my maps played on my i7 7700k, 1kg cpu air cooler, no case, max juice for board and cpu ( ONi board/cpu sucks up to 200 Watts with the system with endgame large map single colony), deactivated Hyperthreading and applied metal fluid between the cpu die and lid.

I will build a new ONI system once there is a 5000 Passmark score single threader on the market for $300.

 

that cpu what he have runs good for the specific size off items, as if you notice in our benchmark test, one user had 2600.

he/she time was 160 sec, that is 1 min lower than latest good cpus, higher times in our benchmark also means lower fps

also not to mention that your i7 7700k is 15-20% better than amd 2600

[babba]

1 hour ago, gabberworld said:

 

that cpu what he have runs good for the specific size off items, as if you notice in our benchmark test, one user had 2600.

he/she time was 160 sec, that is 1 min lower than latest good cpus, higher times in our benchmark also means lower fps

also not to mention that your i7 7700k is 15-20% better than amd 2600

My passmark single threading score is 3400 with the 7700k ...I tune pc systems since 30 years Once a system is optimized for 2-4 cores ( a bit of power for the running OS ), it is a perfect driver for 3d cards and any game.

Passmark regular listing:

With the last 2 year situation on graphic cards... I got out of the rhythm to buy gpus regularly for myself. IMHO its a ridiculous situation with graphic cards nowadays. Some of my old work colleagues work at Nvidia and are sitting on a pile of corp shares - They are laughing their heads off, buying villas and fancy cars. babba is not part of the riches nowadays Also heading for 500-1000 Watts just to power a gpu nowadays, is silly in my view. Its the mad gpu power battle, a hot war

So, messing with cpus for ONI is still great joy nowadays...I`m just praying that cpu`s do not end up in pricing like gpus.

I`m really looking forward to build a great new ONi system once a 5000 passmark single threading cpu is on the market, at a decent price. Will then spin it up to +5500 or so. By then Klei probably is regularly crashing the game with DLC2 harharhar

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, babba said:

My passmark single threading score is 3400 with the 7700k ...I tune pc systems since 30 years Once a system is optimized for 2-4 cores ( a bit of power for the running OS ), it is a perfect driver for 3d cards and any game.

Passmark regular listing:

With the last 2 year situation on graphic cards... I got out of the rhythm to buy gpus regularly for myself. IMHO its a ridiculous situation with graphic cards nowadays. Some of my old work colleagues work at Nvidia and are sitting on a pile of corp shares - They are laughing their heads off, buying villas and fancy cars. babba is not part of the riches nowadays Also heading for 500-1000 Watts just to power a gpu nowadays, is silly in my view. Its the mad gpu power battle, a hot war

So, messing with cpus for ONI is still great joy nowadays...I`m just praying that cpu`s do not end up in pricing like gpus.

I`m really looking forward to build a great new ONi system once a 5000 passmark single threading cpu is on the market, at a decent price. Will then spin it up to +5500 or so. By then Klei probably is regularly crashing the game with DLC2 harharhar

ddr5 and ddr6 is future off new way handling the speed tho, i not sure yet if 4 line ddr6 is better as most time like oni games does indeed use 32bit like int and fload

if program windows/linux correctly it can add 2 int for example in same time to different memory locations, while older memory's like ddr4 cant todo that

it can possible todo with ddr4 as well for speed up but for that developers need use 64bit integer and split it to 2, as c# not really support asm, not sure how todo that in there but in other languages its doable

now as ddr5 have 2 lines it means it can also read and write 32bit same time. but it all depends how Windows/Linux is developed

now if ddr6 comes 4 lines 32 bit instead off 16 bit, it means for hardware that 4 different cpu cores can access memory to exact same time and read 4 different data without waiting each other. that is huge performance jump for apps what uses databases and oni game is one for them as it use allot data

 

[cpy]

On 12/20/2021 at 2:02 PM, gabberworld said:

also if you notice AMD Ryzen 9 5950X is behind already 700 points in single thread and that price is still high as current best inte

Can you also tell how many potatoes 5950x is behind intel? 700 points have 0 information value for me.

Maybe use % difference? Like AMD is 1.5% slower in single core or like that.

 

I miss times when developers optimized their games. Ah good times.

[gabberworld]

6 hours ago, cpy said:

Can you also tell how many potatoes 5950x is behind intel? 700 points have 0 information value for me.

Maybe use % difference? Like AMD is 1.5% slower in single core or like that.

 

I miss times when developers optimized their games. Ah good times.

well it is not really 1.5% its more like 24% difference between 5950x vs i9-12900k average is 20%

i7-12700k have 18-21% average is 16%

i5-12600k have 16-17% average is 10%

those stuff also matters what latency memory you have, usually low latency memory gives also better results

by the way statics show that i7-12700k is already sell almost same amount like the 5950x, difference is that 5950x is been at marked at over year now.

and yes its not surprising because you can buy cpu + motherboard same price like its the 5950x. not every motherboard is cheap tho but home user not need everything either what motherboard factories offer

[gabberworld]

8 hours ago, cpy said:

I miss times when developers optimized their games. Ah good times.

yes, old days you not had much other option and they squeeze everything whatever they can that every user could be happy when they buy game.

old days they not even tell that you pc sucks, this days every game releases the minimum specks by showing people that you pc is garbage if it not meet the minimum 

note: i still play sometimes one game what is released 2002, where we have also Discord crop with over 300 people at there, i also heavily mod the game exe in ASM that it can run kind normally in latest Windows including 4k support and soo on what in back days it not even existed. also that game does have a lot mods because devs who made this game, simply not add much restrictions

note that game plays even some veterans with they old pcs

[cpy]

Oh back then when old consoles had like 32kB or 64kB ram and they had to fit 128kB worth of graphics + few more kB code in it or something like that. So yeah they had to be REALLY clever about using resources. Now it's like optimizations? Nah just shove 64GB of ram in it and pray it works.

 

 

[SharraShimada]

1 hour ago, cpy said:

Oh back then when old consoles had like 32kB or 64kB ram and they had to fit 128kB worth of graphics + few more kB code in it or something like that. So yeah they had to be REALLY clever about using resources. Now it's like optimizations? Nah just shove 64GB of ram in it and pray it works.

 

Or you just added some more RAM or even a CPU to the cardrige and overcome the limitations. Hard limits are there to ignore them!

[WhiteWind36]

On 12/20/2021 at 4:02 PM, gabberworld said:

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 is not good for this game, there been only one user who come close to almost same results what intel offer, but he use the OC and he used the AMD Ryzen 5 5600x

I play ONI on Ryzen 5 2500u and don't complain... My average FPS is 4-5... Although it's becomes challenge of the patience around 1000 cycles... Never played over 1000 cycles because of that.

[gabberworld]

3 hours ago, WhiteWind36 said:

I play ONI on Ryzen 5 2500u and don't complain... My average FPS is 4-5... Although it's becomes challenge of the patience around 1000 cycles... Never played over 1000 cycles because of that.

well, yes this game is possible play till you hit 0 fps. for me its somewhere 4000 animals

problem is more like time waste tho because as fact is that game time starts slow down below 60 fps

[WhiteWind36]

35 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

problem is more like time waste tho because as fact is that game time starts slow down below 60 fps

Because of this fact with low FPS eventually critters starve to death even when they have food available or drown in small puddle because they stop reacting to drowning condition at certain point... Puft starting to dive under water and slicksters starve to death in CO2 environment or drown in own excretion... But overall everything still works at cycle 960 with 6 asteroids open and explored and running 4 bases, just need to play on normal speed, and wait a little while when autosaving...

Although I am thinking about upgrading my computer to i5 10300h with 16gb ram instead of 8 that I have now.

Graphics integrated Vega 8...

[gabberworld]

17 minutes ago, WhiteWind36 said:

Because of this fact with low FPS eventually critters starve to death even when they have food available or drown in small puddle because they stop reacting to drowning condition at certain point... Puft starting to dive under water and slicksters starve to death in CO2 environment or drown in own excretion... But overall everything still works at cycle 960 with 6 asteroids open and explored and running 4 bases, just need to play on normal speed, and wait a little while when autosaving...

it also depends how you play. one off my map is at over 8000 cycles. if you not need allot dupes or allot critters then in most scenario you be just fine with your 30 fps

anyway benchmark show tho that time waste can be huge with older machines. you may lose like 2 cycles in one real cycle when you not have more modern pc, other than that yes game is playable and its not end off world

best way play this game and not think about issues is turn off your FPS counter

[WhiteWind36]

3 hours ago, gabberworld said:

best way play this game and not think about issues is turn off your FPS counter

Don't have one... I just checked average FPS in Radeon software when not running the game...

[cpy]

22 hours ago, WhiteWind36 said:

Don't have one... I just checked average FPS in Radeon software when not running the game...

We should unionize players and demand higher FPS!