Okay post-patch

[Yuuko]

Okay I'm really glad to see some tuning on the dumbbells and work speed improvements.

Stone weight is no longer a trap.  You spawn at 50 Mighty, this gets you from there to about 98 mighty in 1.5 minutes using 100% of its durability.  This is good math for an early game item - this gives you about a full day of faster mining and chopping to get your science, alchemy, etc crafted.  I doubt I'll ever craft one, but since I start with one for free at least I can see using it now.

Gold weight gets you from 50 to 85 Mighty in 30 seconds using just 20% durability, or 0 to 94 in 1.5 minutes and 50% durability.  Good for if you're going to start fighting spiders / pigs / hounds.  If you use this to maintain your mightiness, 76 to 89 takes 20% durability giving you a few days of Mighty off of a single golden bell.  Not bad, but not great.

Gem gets you from 0 to 100% Mighty in less than a minute, using ~25% durability.  What I found worked well though was pumping a gold weight to 74, using 19% durability, then using a gem weight to 100 using 7%.  That combo gives you 5x of 0-100 Mighty with 5 more resets of 75-100 on the gem bell.  Great flexibility for when you're exploring ruins.  Obviously the gym is still best since you're only burning hunger, and food is ez XD

ps - while testing this I thought - why doesn't the flex pose count as a rep?

What do you think of the updated weight values?

[HowlVoid]

It's good, I think there's room for one more high tier dumbbell, maybe pseudoscience tier with thulecite. One that lasts longer.

Or one that's gives mighty fast for longer boss battles and burns through durability?

And if it could...

Let you pump dumbbells while moving if that hasn't changed. 

[Gi-Go]

Updates values made him gain faster but also break the dumbbell faster? Great I guess. Makes it an actual alternative to gym and not a last result replacement. 

He also works faster now which is a great feature to have. But if this is their way of making up for the speed removal then oh boy is this not good enough. Hammering pig houses is how you get resources at least when you play by speedrun rules and that's how Wolfgang mains usually play. And the hammering speed is already very fast even on old Wanda. It's still good for ruins but it's

Not. Good. Enough. 

I just want him to have a single advantage that can't be faded into irrelevance with proper tools or methods, and is not in posession of other characters. Preferably cheapest movement speed. 

Wanda and Wendy have better combat potential and all workers have better work potential. Wigfird has a better survivability potential if Wanda is too hard for you. Dude who is stuck somewhere in the middle is not what I want Wolfgang to be.

Meanwhile "fast, easy and cheap" title is currently available as wormwood has 2 exclusive to him perks beside speed, wx78 is unreliable and unreworked, wes isn't a real character and Walter was a mistake. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

12 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Meanwhile "fast, easy and cheap" title is currently available as wormwood has 2 exclusive to him perks beside speed, wx78 is unreliable and unreworked, wes isn't a real character and Walter was a mistake. 

Hopefully the trend continues like that where every character feels special in their own way, we'll have to see about getting more features for wolf cause just getting these changes was fighting tooth and nail explaining to the wolfgang haters lol

[Yuuko]

Just now, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Hopefully the trend continues like that where every character feels special in their own way, we'll have to see about getting more features for wolf cause just getting these changes was fighting tooth and nail explaining to the wolfgang haters lol

I, a Wolfgang hater

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Hopefully the trend continues like that where every character feels special in their own way, we'll have to see about getting more features for wolf cause just getting these changes was fighting tooth and nail explaining to the wolfgang haters lol

Not at all, Wolfgang even in the original DS was never intended to be about SPEED in fact it was an accidental perk from what I’ve been told: they just kept it in because it was a Single Player game and playing by yourself doesn’t matter: it was when he was brought to DST the Multiplayer game that his problems started to rear it’s ugly head: He finished fights faster then anyone, could out run his whole group and kill everything single handedly, I mean i personally had trouble keeping up with my friends who played Wolfgang BECAUSE he had built in Speed AND killed everything he came in contact with twice as fast as any other character.

Its about the equivalent of playing an MMO and your a level 5 character in an area fighting level 8 enemy mobs enjoying the struggle and content offered to level up but THEN a level 115 comes running through and kills everything in the area: That’s only fun for the level 115… completely BORING for you though (unless your one of those type of gamers who don’t mind having other people do EVERYTHING for you)

Wolfgang needed adjustments: it’s not and was never that we “Hated” Wolfgang- it was the fact he wasn’t very multiplayer friendly and SPEED does not Portray MIGHT..

He needs more to do to feel Mighty.. chopping trees and rocks faster “feels” mighty.

Being able to pull up a boat mast in one interaction with sheer muscle mass alone would “feel” mighty..

Being able to casually carry heavy items in your hand slot while still wearing a backpack would “feel” mighty.

Running at the speed of light would not.

I for one am glad that Klei is focusing on making being Mighty “feel” like being Mighty I don’t want extra speed, extra health, extra damage.. I want MIGHT to be its own thing with its own usefulness both Inside of AND Outside of Combat.

I NEVER Hated Wolfgang, the only thing I hate is that so many Wolfgang Mains are unhappy with his rework when Klei is trying their best to portray MIGHTY.. and not SPEED.

[Toroic]

2 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Updates values made him gain faster but also break the dumbbell faster? Great I guess. Makes it an actual alternative to gym and not a last result replacement. 

He also works faster now which is a great feature to have. But if this is their way of making up for the speed removal then oh boy is this not good enough. Hammering pig houses is how you get resources at least when you play by speedrun rules and that's how Wolfgang mains usually play. And the hammering speed is already very fast even on old Wanda. It's still good for ruins but it's

Not. Good. Enough. 

I just want him to have a single advantage that can't be faded into irrelevance with proper tools or methods, and is not in posession of other characters. Preferably cheapest movement speed. 

Wanda and Wendy have better combat potential and all workers have better work potential. Wigfird has a better survivability potential if Wanda is too hard for you. Dude who is stuck somewhere in the middle is not what I want Wolfgang to be.

Meanwhile "fast, easy and cheap" title is currently available as wormwood has 2 exclusive to him perks beside speed, wx78 is unreliable and unreworked, wes isn't a real character and Walter was a mistake. 

I honestly think there is no amount of buffing that would cause you to not complain.

Wx has traditionally been the speed character as no one has ever come close to his 50% speed bonus, and Wicker books and telelocator staves allow him to trigger it on demand, and he's still due for a refresh.

Hopefully that'll be more what you're looking for.

[Mike23Ua]

51 minutes ago, Toros said:

I honestly think there is no amount of buffing that would cause you to not complain.

Wx has traditionally been the speed character as no one has ever come close to his 50% speed bonus, and Wicker books and telelocator staves allow him to trigger it on demand, and he's still due for a refresh.

Hopefully that'll be more what you're looking for.

I actually agree with this “Over-Charge” is part of WX78’s design it’s a Core part of how they were meant to play and it Diminishes over time and is pretty difficult to obtain.. Wolfgang’s Speed perk was an unintentional extra feature he had they just kept in all this time.

And if I’m wrong about this I would love an official statement from Klei about it.

These people keep talking about how Wanda can speed run but they completely omit all the extra work and resource collecting she needs before she can get to that point.

I think it’s a pretty ridiculous comparison to be honest: you’d have to be very bad at DST to have ever died as pre-Rework Wolfgang… With Wanda you can die to a single lagging Beefalo as your health constantly ticks out in the middle of winter, and your not sure if your safely far enough away from that Beefalo to build a campfire, stop your freezing & use your healing clock or if lag will end your existence.

They complain about needing to spend 14 seconds with a Gembell to go Mighty again, when Wanda’s HEALTH is Constantly ticking downward at all times… and the 14 seconds she spends rewinding her age clock could be 14 seconds she doesn’t have.

[Ohan]

Changes look awesome, the critical hit on trees and boulders is a very fun touch.

My only remaining wishlist item would be a use for potato sacks, like potato storage. I just think they look too neat to be just placeholder weights. 

Being able to hammer them does mean u can quickly get 4 potatoes to turn into seeds and grow giants at the cost of two gyms  might be actually worth it!

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wanda’s HEALTH is Constantly ticking downward at all times… and the 14 seconds she spends rewinding her age clock could be 14 seconds she doesn’t have.

This is Wanda's gimmick she is literally displacing time her whole character revolves around this TIME gimmick if you want to keep comparing Wolfgang and Wanda bring up all their damn traits already. If you don't wanna be in constant danger don't be the in the old grandma stage lol.  Also Wanda isn't a complete combat role out of all the survivors she might have the most utility with all her watches teleporting, reversing death, free healing, making temporary wormholes and then she has her whip which literally puts her at a safe distance for attacking. It's not like this character doesn't have alot going for them either.

[Yuuko]

Now that I've played it post patch, I still got 1 BIG gripe with Wolfgang...  The mighty is still a continual drain.  While you can sneak in a weight lift while fighting, its awkward.  If you mess up you'll throw your weight, wasting a LOT of its durability, and putting it on the ground.  Its also very easy to cancel without getting your pump in.  Each pump only gives you 30 more seconds Mighty as well, so you've got to pump pretty often...  Not nearly as smooth as eating something with a long animation, or rewinding Wanda's watch, especially for how little you gain.

I think Mightiness shouldn't drop at all while you're over 85% hunger.  Its already a lot to manage your food to keep your hunger at that level, and its a more smooth action to make during combat.  I still feel pretty strongly about this change, even with the new changes to the weights (which didn't actually change anything for maintaining mighty, only for acquiring it.)

[MondayNight]

12 hours ago, Shosuko said:

...in 1.5 minutes using...

...1.5 minutes...

..in less than a minute...

So, for each of them 3 Dumb-bells we have to.. sit and watch his animation of "pumping muscles" between ~1 and 1.5 minutes?

Stationary, there, marvel at an idle animation?

Bad design at its finest.

It should really be possible to do it on-the-go/while moving.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

~1 and 1.5 minutes

the actuall game play is waiting 2 to 5 seconds to top off it every many minutes so you never need to wait many time to raise the entire bar. Kinda like be eating little snack every X time pre-refresh

nobody waits until the bar is at 25% and waits afk to rais 75% of the bar with a stonebell. At most you let the meter go down while going base and only raise before leaving with the gym since it fills the entire bar in few seconds

so saying that you stand still for minutes isnt realistic even if the maths points that because the gameplay is different

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the actuall game play is waiting 2 to 5 seconds to top off it every many minutes so you never need to wait many time to raise the entire bar. Kinda like be eating little snack every X time pre-refresh

nobody waits until the bar is at 25% and waits afk to rais 75% of the bar with a stonebell. At most you let the meter go down while going base and only raise before leaving with the gym since it fills the entire bar in few seconds

so saying that you stand still for minutes isnt realistic even if the maths points that because the gameplay is different

While true in theory, still in practice via mentioned actual game-play there are a lot of occurrences where one either forgets (while talking with fellow play-mates or randoms, doing repetitive menial choirs a.s.o.) or is forced by environment to not trigger that animation for prolonged periods (long fights - think CK, Misery Toad, CC, Ruins' Apex Nightmare Cycle), and then/afterwards - in lack of Gym access - is forced into doing for tens of seconds or said ~1 minute-and-more an idle animation "action" and get back "in shape" aka out of the penalizing Wimpy. Once more: bad design.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

While true in theory, still in practice via mentioned actual game-play there are a lot of occurrences where one either forgets (while talking with fellow play-mates or randoms, doing repetitive menial choirs a.s.o.) or is forced by environment to not trigger that animation for prolonged periods (long fights - think CK, Misery Toad, CC, Ruins' Apex Nightmare Cycle), and then/afterwards - in lack of Gym access - is forced into doing for tens of seconds or said ~1 minute-and-more an idle animation "action". Still: bad design.

i agree with that. Is just that, once you have gembell, you dont feel like being afk (maybe because i take the time to check my phone's notifications or whatever) because is so little the time wasted

i agree with you, it could have player imput to improve the speed like the minigame (but for god's sske, increase the difficultyyyy)

[cybers2001]

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wolfgang needed adjustments: it’s not and was never that we “Hated” Wolfgang- it was the fact he wasn’t very multiplayer friendly and SPEED does not Portray MIGHT..

Why does every character have to feel "multiplayer friendly"? What makes Maxwell multiplayer friendly? Is it because he brings back resources for the group? If I can solo a boss or ruins as Wolfgang, I'm doing the same thing as a Maxwell, except with meat and rare boss loot. Doing either as Wolfgang or Maxwell is already more multiplayer friendly than a Wilson, who is a more popular character yet offers nothing but useless beard hair.

[sudoku]

I liked the idea of a traversal ability linked to mightyness. I think someome suggested a sprint, but it could be a jump, leap, or maybe a polevault lmao i dunno. Something though that consumes some mightyness when used.

[Cloakingsumo198]

13 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I liked the idea of a traversal ability linked to mightyness. I think someome suggested a sprint, but it could be a jump, leap, or maybe a polevault lmao i dunno. Something though that consumes some mightyness when used.

That pole vault sounds awesome

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

Why does every character have to feel "multiplayer friendly"? What makes Maxwell multiplayer friendly? Is it because he brings back resources for the group? If I can solo a boss or ruins as Wolfgang, I'm doing the same thing as a Maxwell, except with meat and rare boss loot. Doing either as Wolfgang or Maxwell is already more multiplayer friendly than a Wilson, who is a more popular character yet offers nothing but useless beard hair.

I explained in great detail & passion across multiple threads as to why, I’m not going to explain it again: but you can’t compare a Reworked character to one’s who have not been Reworked yet (those would be: Wilson, Maxwell, WX78 & Wickerbottom)

[cybers2001]

On 12/15/2021 at 7:31 AM, Mike23Ua said:

I explained in great detail & passion across multiple threads as to why, I’m not going to explain it again: but you can’t compare a Reworked character to one’s who have not been Reworked yet (those would be: Wilson, Maxwell, WX78 & Wickerbottom)

So just replace Maxwell with Woodie in my example, then.