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Too many codified planetoids?


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I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that Klei have made an unnecessary amount of planetoids both as a start and as ones that you can travel to. From the new options I only really like the idea of a near completely radioactive planetoid as a challenge. Right now for example, you have just an ocean planetoid that is full of water and some random water geysers and some graphite and nothing else. Wouldn't it be cool if this planetoid was simply a tweaked Oceana planetoid and every planetoid being roughly the same size for you to colonize (for Spaced Out versions specifically)?

Any time I look at the planetoid list available and the planetoids that you can travel to from the starting one before starting a new world, in the game or through code, it's a mess. So many options and maybe lack there of and the traits, even if fun in concept on top of all of that just clutter it more. Makes me question why you have done it this way. There is a much more simple solution to this. Keep only the planetoids that are distinct and reuse the same ones as the planetoids you can travel to via rockets. Then the only difference would be the necessary POIs that would be specified for 2nd and 3rd planetoids and so on no matter what type of planetoid it is (some other POIs would be planetoid type specific and not planetoid number, so for example if you had a POI that included a geothermal Steam Turbine setup,).

Then for example Spaced Out type planetoids would be all what you would expect. You travel to a planetoid that is the equivalent to Rime from a Terra start, it would reuse the exact same code for Rime (same biomes, same geysers) except the POIs would be slightly different. And for anything more exciting and weird you could turn on/turn off (and not be forced to take) traits for your save file. This means something like Subsurface Magma would be a trait you could have if you so choose to have and not as one planetoid type that in itself. I can only imagine how difficult it is to organise a spreadsheet as a developer all these weird planetoids and then having to make sure that the traits work for all of them. Just stick to like 10 distinct planetoids, reuse them as both starts and travel options and add in traits as an option, and you're done.

As a result of this, you could even make it more fun by adding randomization to what planetoids are even on the other side of the teleporter or a little bit further out. The excitement of not entirely knowing what planetoid you will travel to through the teleporter and finding out "oh it's Rime" or "oh it's Badlands" would be thrilling! To illustrate better what I mean I made some diagrams from how it is now to how it could be done (nothing concrete, just for illustration purposes so not saying that for example Terra not being an option to travel to from Rime is something I'm strictly suggesting here, or what difficulty is for what currently or what it should be, those things are kind of irrelevant for this example).

How first 3 planetoids are currently generated for the first 4 options (roughly speaking from memory, I haven't double-checked but the example still works).

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How first 3 planetoids could be generated for the first 4 options (give or take).

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If you think I'm taking away weird randomization, note the (STANDARD) refers to having no traits at all. With traits you could have so much more variation. And in case you think some options could end up with no plastic or reed fibre, or god forbid finding yourself surrounded by magma on the other side, the randomization could be put in a curated pool of options. For example Terra could be a planetoid that simply has its core with Oil (this makes more sense than magma core from an access perspective as you would go to get oil first before you tap into magma usually, but that's just a potential example). For later planetoids you would either be limited to ranching dreckos or only getting plastic from oil from either the first planetoid or the planetoid you travel to through the teleporter. Some even harder ones could require you to travel to space to get a sufficient amount of plastic and you having to scrape by with plastic from POIs or something along the lines.

The result would be more comprehensive gameplay and awareness of what each planetoid type is. So, why not just do that instead? Less code, less testing, more comprehensive to the player and you're not sacrificing much if any of the weird and whacky randomization (because of the option of traits). But I would also love to hear what other players think. Do you think it's too cluttered and why or why not? Is my example a better solution or d you think planetoid generation could be done differently or is better off as it is?

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2 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I think it is fine. Lots of options, something for everybody. If they add more, I think that would be even better.

Not enough chaos for my tastes.  There will never be enough chaos for my tastes.  I want like 30 possible remote asteroids from which about 8 or 9 are selected at random.  More random geysers throughout.  

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On 11/7/2021 at 1:03 PM, Gurgel said:

I think it is fine. Lots of options, something for everybody. If they add more, I think that would be even better.

The idea is that you are given more solid options at the start. When venturing to a new planetoid to a starting one you won't know exactly what to expect, so there is already a randomisation element to that and would be fun to work with when your second planetoid could be something unexpected. And the extra traits have more room to be expanded upon like with the idea of Subsurface Magma. Can't have that when you have a planetoid dedicated for that idea solely. Categorizing is better in my opinion so this would be great depending on whether you want the default experience or spice things up more, it would be up to you, instead of saying random garbage go and expecting things to go as intended.

You both as a player and the developer might not even know what's intended or not at this point and need massive spreadsheets to explain what should happen under what trait conditions for what planetoid or travel-to type planetoid. That is bad practice especially when considering other developers might come to take over for this later or you might come back to this code and would not be able to tackle it properly. Why hassle with the mess when this more simplistic approach could solve all your problems and introduce an aspect that you could not before as easily making randomization more fun, like getting Oasisse planetoid on the other side of a teleporter when starting out on Rime, or something else entirely?

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1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

The idea is that you are given more solid options at the start.

What makes you think that "I" want "more solid options at the start" (whatever that is supposed to mean....)? I find the existing starting options quite adequate and I see zero need for improvement. Sure, there could be more, but that is not what you are talking about. You are talking about taking things away from the other players.

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On 11/8/2021 at 3:36 PM, Gurgel said:

What makes you think that "I" want "more solid options at the start" (whatever that is supposed to mean....)? I find the existing starting options quite adequate and I see zero need for improvement. Sure, there could be more, but that is not what you are talking about. You are talking about taking things away from the other players.

Guess even with the 2 diagrams and some extra context it did not make sense to you and you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say, at least as far as I can tell. Nothing would be ultimately removed, just reorganized. Less starting choices would be beneficial in a different way. You could still get pretty much the same type of options you can have now potentially just differently and in a way that is easier to read and understand to both the player and the developer later down the line.

Some of the new planetoids can just be existing planetoids with extra traits sprinkled in, like the one with a starting planetoid that has a lush core but subsurface magma. The fact that's not how that works but there are traits too that add onto all of that creates a logical mess. The planetoid doesn't have a solid standout definition of its own, like Terra being the most ideal start (presumably) or Rime being the cold one, or Volcaena being one full of molten volcanoes and magma, or Aridio having hot biomes, or Oceana being full of water or Badlands being full of minerals and not much else... Does that elaborate the idea a little bit better? And such a system would also introduce extra randomization with little effort by the fact that you could now throw in a list of curated secondary and tertiary and so on planetoids to travel to, not entirely knowing what the next planetoid will entail. If you do think you understand but still think it would ultimately be worse and remove options, I would like to hear why and how.

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52 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Guess even with the 2 diagrams and some extra context it did not make sense to you and you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say, at least as far as I can tell. Nothing would be ultimately removed, just reorganized. Less starting choices would be . You could still get pretty much the same type of options you can have now potentially just differently and in a way that is easier to read and understand to both the player and the developer later down the line. Some of the new planetoids can just be existing planetoids with extra traits sprinkled in, like the one with a starting planetoid that has a lush core but subsurface magma. The fact that's not how that works but there are traits too that add onto all of that creates a logical mess. The planetoid doesn't have a solid standout definition of its own, like Terra being the most ideal start (presumably) or Rime being the cold one, or Volcaena being one full of molten volcanoes and magma, or Aridio having hot biomes, or Oceana being full of water or Badlands being full of minerals and not much else... Does that elaborate the idea a little bit better? And such a system would also introduce extra randomization with little effort by the fact that you could now throw in a list of curated secondary and tertiary and so on planetoids to travel to, not entirely knowing what the next planetoid will entail. If you do think you understand but still think it would ultimately be worse and remove options, I would like to hear why and how.

No. Not really clear either. But now I at least think I misunderstood you the first time. My apologies for my reaction.

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there could be 2 ways

1 hour ago, WhiteWind36 said:

I'm not sure about coding or something like that, but what you are proposing would make world generation more user friendly with more options to choose what you exactly want, or don't want to in your world generation. I like it.

yeah. if talk game like factorio they todo that at there, and its working just fine for everyone. im sure it work fine at oni as well

note. factorio game originally started made only from 1 user, and he was a mod maker in game at minecraft

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On 11/7/2021 at 8:53 AM, gabberworld said:

yes , but i think they should limit geysers for base map. otherway there no really challenge go for other maps at all

I took a look at some of the maps to the right of Quadmiris in the list.  I think one of them didn't have any water based geysers, and someone else mentioned that their home planet didn't have water based geysers in some other thread.

I think guaranteed geysers is good for Terrania, Folia, and Quagmiris as it stands now.  It allows for planning.  Like, you can use those geysers for metal refinery coolant, so you don't have to crush so much metal early, at least if you get out there and find them so that they spew out their fluid.  Or, I think, to have a stable sleet wheat farm for making berry sludge for space missions.

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15 minutes ago, Spoonwood said:

I took a look at some of the maps to the right of Quadmiris in the list.  I think one of them didn't have any water based geysers, and someone else mentioned that their home planet didn't have water based geysers in some other thread.

I think guaranteed geysers is good for Terrania, Folia, and Quagmiris as it stands now.  It allows for planning.  Like, you can use those geysers for metal refinery coolant, so you don't have to crush so much metal early, at least if you get out there and find them so that they spew out their fluid.  Or, I think, to have a stable sleet wheat farm for making berry sludge for space missions.

what about teleport map? even if main map not have, does second map have what designed for that purpose? if something missing from main

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The starting planet I have is Swamp (polluted almost everything) with frozen core, has 1 exposed natural gas vent, minor volcano, and 3 metal volcanoes. I have less than 5 reed fiber plants on my map. Very little clean water. Teleported to another planet to find terra that sub freezing temps outside the teleport area. Also see very little water areas, not sure on vents. Not sure if any oil on the 2 planets...hard to explore areas that is -187F without any suits.

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2 hours ago, Silverspeedy said:

The starting planet I have is Swamp (polluted almost everything) with frozen core, has 1 exposed natural gas vent, minor volcano, and 3 metal volcanoes. I have less than 5 reed fiber plants on my map. Very little clean water. Teleported to another planet to find terra that sub freezing temps outside the teleport area. Also see very little water areas, not sure on vents. Not sure if any oil on the 2 planets...hard to explore areas that is -187F without any suits.

You can see all vents/volcanoes/geysers in starmap. Click on the asteroid and you can see in detail.

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I did look at that like you said. Main is like I said but saw there was also copper volcano. The other place has salt water and cool slush but the planet is frozen making it hard to explore or unlock these vents without any suits.

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