Sasza22 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Currently the rockets don`t use fuel when landing and taking off but they do use when travelling around in orbit. Would be cool if they didn`t. Why does it matter? For example when you want to go to a distant space PoI and pass through a planetoid you will use less fuel if you land on it and lift off from the other side. Otherwise you`d need to go around it. If moving on orbit didn`t use fuel and took less time it would eliminate the weird scenario of needing to land there to extend range and would help a lot in exploring space with the telescope module (which i assume is the intended way of exploring space). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDeusMachina Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I sort of understand why you would suggest this, as "being in orbit" means you are moving around a planet without having to use fuel in "reality". There are a few concerns here: - There are no orbital mechanics in ONI, planets are not moving, space POIs are not moving, nothing is moving relatively to each other. The new solar intensity mechanics that increases when going towards the outer rings of the starmap could also suggest that all bodies on the starmap are not orbiting around a common "star". When a rocket is in "orbit", it is also not moving. Rockets in ONI are not really "orbiting" planets. - If a rocket is going from one planet to another, entering orbit should technically also require fuel as it needs to slow down to be captured by that planet and enter "orbit". Otherwise, it is a fly by and could influence a rocket's trajectory in many ways depending on which side it is flying by and how close to the planet it is. Entering orbit would require less fuel than landing on the planet, but it would still require fuel. Here, the OP's suggestion to have free movement on tiles around planets is in contradiction with this principle, unless the rocket is already orbiting that planet. - Navigating the starmap is already not very intuitive. No fuel to launch/land, going from a planet to another, one cannot simply count the number of tiles in between, because it costs no fuel to launch and enter orbit, etc. Adding free movement around planets would make things even more confusing and less intuitive. - Yes, rockets can land on a planet on its path and launch on the other side, saving up on some fuel. However, we do need to do some work and spend resource on each planet we want to do this to begin with. We need to send rocket(s) and dupe(s) to build a platform to enable that feature. If we could just have free movement on tiles immediately next to a planet, it would require no work and no resource whatsoever, effectively increasing the range of all rockets at no cost. - To be honest, I personally do not feel the need to turn ONI into Kerbal Space Program. When I want to play an intricate space/physics simulation game with orbital mechanics, I log on KSP, not ONI. I think the issue is that there is no fuel cost for launch/landing and it has been mentioned by many people already. I would personally much prefer that Klei adds a fuel cost to launching/landing rather than going deeper with orbital mechanics and giving free movements on tiles near planets. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted August 7, 2021 Author Share Posted August 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said: I think the issue is that there is no fuel cost for launch/landing and it has been mentioned by many people already. I would personally much prefer that Klei adds a fuel cost to launching/landing rather than going deeper with orbital mechanics and giving free movements on tiles near planets. Honestly i feel the same but for now i was thinking that allowing free movement around planets would be a sort of qol feature to make up for the landing/lift off weirdness. No need to think about complicate space mechanics but as long as we got orbits graphically shown around our planetoids them might as well give us some benefits. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDeusMachina Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, Sasza22 said: Honestly i feel the same but for now i was thinking that allowing free movement around planets would be a sort of qol feature to make up for the landing/lift off weirdness. No need to think about complicate space mechanics but as long as we got orbits graphically shown around our planetoids them might as well give us some benefits. Just realized after reading this, if they would implement free movement on tiles that are "orbits", it means we could launch from the starting asteroid, go to the closest asteroid (radioactive) and land, go back and forth, at no fuel cost at all since both orbits are in contact. Those are currently 1 tile away, so 2 tiles of fuel required for a round trip. It would become 0 fuel required. They would probably need to put that planet further away on the starmap, or add a launching/landing fuel cost... I really hope they just do that xD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said: It would become 0 fuel required. It would still require fuel to move from one orbit to the other if the suggestion is implemented. What would not require fuel would be moving from one side of the planet to the other while in orbit Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDeusMachina Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 39 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: It would still require fuel to move from one orbit to the other if the suggestion is implemented. What would not require fuel would be moving from one side of the planet to the other while in orbit Oh yeah, that could work. But I'm still not for the whole free movement on tiles that are on the same orbit. Another concern: time. Would it take the same time to travel on multiple tiles while in orbit as it does on other tiles of the starmap? If so, that means more life support requires vs landing and launching on the other side. I guess that also brings up the issue of instant launching/landing, which I think should be changed to some travel time (perhaps less than 1 tile worth of travel time) and with an associated fuel cost. The simpler way would be to consider launching/landing as traveling 1 tile in terms of time and fuel - that has probably been suggested before. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said: The simpler way would be to consider launching/landing as traveling 1 tile in terms of time and fuel - that has probably been suggested before. Which will lead to the other issue of rockets stranded and abandoned left and right without a way to retrieve them (some suggestions exist for how to retrieve rockets too) I think that right now rocket travelling is in a middle ground (working good enough and not many bugs left) but orbits are still a bit confusing.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoakenashi Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 On 8/7/2021 at 11:27 AM, NeoDeusMachina said: I would personally much prefer that Klei adds a fuel cost to launching/landing I agree. Honestly I don’t pay much attention to fuel, but I had assumed going from planet to orbit would cost fuel since it is a tile’s worth of movement. My two cents in this expert’s discussion and what is most intuitive to me: every tile change requires fuel, such that getting to orbit costs 1 distance to get to from the planet to orbit. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1484578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreyKl Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 On 8/7/2021 at 1:06 PM, Sasza22 said: Currently the rockets don`t use fuel when landing and taking off That's actually an exploit, despite not using fuel, rocket exhausts collectable gas, which can be turned back into fuel in some cases. On the other hand it seem to be problematic to empty modular cargo, not without lifting off and landing back. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/132507-orbital-movement/#findComment-1485223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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