Cooking Petroleum on a Volcano

[DimaB77]

Several variants of Cooking Petroleum.

[Craigjw]

Dripping oil ONTO the petrol for the conversion is substandard dude.  You're peddling substandard architecture with your vent drippings.  You don't need any of that fancy petrol tunnelling if you submerge it.

Submerging causes the vent to become overpressure when conversion stops happening and the vent stops outputting oil and hence NO oil will ever leak out of the conversion chamber EVER.  No need for the escher pump to prevent oil leakeage into the petrol spill.

Your examples on the wiki, if the temp becomes too low, the oil will spill into the petrol line, contaminating it.  This just NEVER happens when it's submerged.

Until the single tile of oil goes through conversion, the vent automatically stops as the tile becomes overpressure and further oil will NEVER leak into the petrol heat exchange.

The SS below show the converter halted, as there is insufficient heat to allow conversion.  When the tile of oil on the vent converts, it starts up again.  The column of petrol above the oil acts like infinite storage and can be as tall as you like.  If you have sufficient heat, the conversion will just continue uninterrupted.

The only way that this can go wrong is if you supply too much heat and cause the oil in the pipes to reach above 404c, which is why there is a temp sensor above the vent, just in case.  To be fair, I've built over 5 of these in live playthroughs for thousands of cycles and none have ever failed me, EVER.  Comparing this to dripping, I had them fail all the time when I didn't supply enough heat.

In contrast, dripping petrol from above is a crap method.

[DimaB77]

It's the same old argument again. We have already discussed this issue.
Here's what I apply:

And this is the second option:

Both are in this article, and have already been discussed here and participated in.
There is no advantage to your method. Moreover, it is even a little worse because it requires petroleum already ready to use.

In my version the extra oil will not get in and splash out, because it is prevented by a hydro-sensor or thermosensor (in the last 3 schemes), your choice.

Your option, other than a more complicated startup, seems to me to be less stable.
But in any case, everyone will apply what he likes.

30 minutes ago, Craigjw said:

You're peddling substandard architecture

And take it easy, please. I'm not selling anything to anyone!

[DimaB77]

This is how your version starts up (the oil will overflow indefinitely):

 

I used to always use a 2x2 heat exchanger and it started up and worked great:

Here for some reason I decided to use 1x2, and it spits out a few kg of oil at the beginning. My bad, I'll go back to the tried and tested version.

 

These are the temperatures of both variants:

408.4C vs. 410.8C. In my opinion quite significant. Also pay attention to the t of magma. Your variant loses heat faster.

And here are the temperatures after downtime (ran out of oil):

407.6C vs. 417.6C. And it's not just hot oil, it's also a real chance that the pipe will break. Under certain conditions with a probability of 100%.

Do you still like your version???

[Craigjw]

You are wrong, it is better.  I've tried many attempts using dripping oil and it was flawed and always failed, complex automation is required to prevent the overflow of oil into the heat exchange, where as an overpressure submerged vent, firstly you don't need complex automation and secondly, oil NEVER gets into the petrol heat exchange, this just doesn't happen, ever.

You need to prime it with petrol first, without petrol, it's not going to work.

As I previously mentioned, I've had thousands of live cycles running submerged vents and NEVER had a single incident.  How is this worse?

Moreover, I've never had a broken pipe.  I mean, if you over extend the heat exchange, this will happen, however this will also happen when it's being dripped too, so your argument to this effect is moot.

15 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

This is how your version starts up (the oil will overflow indefinitely):

 and it started

it's obvious that you don't fully understand the principle and have not tested this extensively at all.  If you did, then you'd have a tile of petrol where the vent is.

[Craigjw]

One last thing to note, at the time of writing of that original post, the mechanics on vents were such that the vent became overpressure when only submerged in a single tile of oil and therefore, it was possible to just input oil without the need to prime it with petrol at all, as the vent became overpressure and prevented more than a single tile of oil forming and no overflow of oil into the heat exchange would happen.  Later, the mechanics of vents slightly changed and as such, the system now needs priming with petrol first, as the vent will not become overpressure when the tile fills with oil.

[DimaB77]

1 hour ago, Craigjw said:

not tested this extensively at all

Thanks for the assessment! Here's the boiler thread, from which I took some ideas, for the article. And everyone there is dripping oil from the top (although there is an option to let the oil in on the side). They apparently don't understand anything either.

2 hours ago, Craigjw said:

complex automation is required

Only 1 pressure (or temperature) sensor is difficult?

2 hours ago, Craigjw said:

You need to prime it with petrol first, without petrol, it's not going to work.

Not at first, but always when you have rebuilt something in the cooking chamber. The circuit with the top vent starts and works in the automatism.

2 hours ago, Craigjw said:

I've never had a broken pipe

At the outlet of your chamber is petroleum with a higher temperature. This is due to the fact that by dripping from the top I additionally cool the petroleum coming out with colder oil.
The lower petroleum temperature means not only a higher efficiency of the circuit, but also less chance that the pipe will break.

I suggest we end this pointless argument. Use what you like best.

[Tranoze]

So, you dont even take the igneous rock out...
Here is my simple magma tamer require low automation and fool-proof.

Use conveyer rail to heat what everyou want, steam turbine, or, petro boiler. The steam turbine there are just to make sure the set up wont go over heat.
Volcano will require little bit more room to contain magma.

The robo miner also for fool-proof, they are there just in case, but for my 400 cycle my current world and 800 cycle my previous world, i never see it dig when volcano erupt.

[gabberworld]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

So, you dont even take the igneous rock out...

 

if you mean the first image then he setup is made that you can take out if you want/need.

[Tranoze]

18 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

if you mean the first image then he setup is made that you can take out if you want/need.

The point is to move low heated igneous rock and keep the temp high. You can use conveyer 400~500 igneous rock to preheat crude oil along with petro. After that, if it still above 200, you can use them to run steam turbine. Taking them manually are just bring 500C rock to your storage, which both waste power and may ruin your storage temperature overall.

[gabberworld]

3 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

The point is to move low heated igneous rock and keep the temp high. You can use conveyer 400~500 igneous rock to preheat crude oil along with petro. After that, if it still above 200, you can use them to run steam turbine. Taking them manually are just bring 500C rock to your storage, which both waste power and may ruin your storage temperature overall.

well. im assuming you talk for those who play this game first time. as those who played already and know how handle heat. its not a issue

[Tranoze]

5 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

well. im assuming you talk for those who play this game first time. as those who played already and know how handle heat. its not a issue

Why did you assume people know how to handle heat and the issue just magically disappear? Either you deal with it now, or you have to manually deal with it later. Game run the same for people with experience  or people without experience.

People know how to handle heat because they have experienced on what produce heat and how to deal with it BEFORE it become the trouble, not AFTER.

[gabberworld]

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

Why did you assume people know how to handle heat

is it not obvious that Steam turbine is one off those what can lower temperature because it output  90c water?

[Tranoze]

Just now, gabberworld said:

is it not obvious that Steam turbine is one off those what can lower temperature because it output  90c water?

Heat transfer doesnt account much on mass, but the different in temperature, so if you keep those rock there for too long, they will become chunk of 25 T of 600C, and they give the same amount of heat as chunk of 20kg of rock at 600C per sec. That setup will run to the point it dont transfer enough heat to boil crude oil, and most new magma will spend their heat to the existing rock, not crude oil, and the boiler will fail it speed.

[Craigjw]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:34 AM, DimaB77 said:

Thanks for the assessment! Here's the boiler thread, from which I took some ideas, for the article. And everyone there is dripping oil from the top (although there is an option to let the oil in on the side). They apparently don't understand anything either.

Just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it's better, have you ever thought that, perhaps they don't know about submerging and it's the likes of wiki pages that don't describe it properly that the idea isn't mainstream.  To say that everyone is doing must mean it's better, is essentially just closed mindedness.

In reality, 1 pressure or temp sensor isn't all that's required for dripping it, for it to be completely reliable.  For submerging, 1 temp sensor is the only automation required to make it reliable.

The whole reason I developed the overpressure vent mechanic was because dripping the oil from above was so bloody unreliable.

[Craigjw]

I should add, that you've done a really good job and I very much commend you for putting in the effort in creating and maintaining this resource, it is very helpful.

I just hope that you can constructively and objectively look at the advantages that submerging offers and help people with more reliable builds.

[DimaB77]

11 hours ago, Tranoze said:

The robo miner also for fool-proof

Definitely

11 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Volcano will require little bit more room to contain magma.

Right. I forgot to mention in the article. I'll add.

9 hours ago, Tranoze said:

The point is to move low heated igneous rock

I leave her there. For one thing, it still gives off heat, even though it's less effective. Secondly, the article is not about getting energy. In addition, this complication will scare newcomers.

8 hours ago, Tranoze said:

they will become chunk of 25 T of 600C, and they give the same amount of heat as chunk of 20kg of rock at 600C per sec

The greater the mass of the rock, the smaller the temperature fluctuations in the brew boiler. Excessive temperature fluctuations lead to the output of hotter petroleum.

1 hour ago, Craigjw said:

I just hope that you can constructively and objectively

I try to be as objective as possible. And I will be sincerely glad if a lot of criticism and additions are made to my schemes.
If my circuits are not criticized, it means one of two things: either they are flawless (which is not true) or they are too stupid.
Thank you all for your comments. They mean a lot to me.

[Tranoze]

19 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

The greater the mass of the rock, the smaller the temperature fluctuations in the brew boiler. Excessive temperature fluctuations lead to the output of hotter petroleum.

I use converyer rail thermo sensor and conveyer shut off to keep track of rock in rail, and only alow rock to go out of the system once they reach below 650C (for petro boiler) and 200C for steam turbine.

To reduce fluctuations, you can use block of metal tile, or tempshift.

Remember, 20 tons of 600C rock transfer heat like 20kg of 600C rock, and if you have them run for a long time without take the rock out, heat wont transfer fast enough and it will fail as Craigjw said.