How's the DLC rocketry?

[user32167]

I tried out a quick sandbox build of a rocket with a trailblazer and a rover module. Then flew to the 3rd planetoid. It seems to me that that rocketry is still kinda immature in ONI due to a number of issues (correct me if I am wrong):

• Filling up the command module with gas and liquid is tedious without liquid/gas input
• Command module is practically infinite storage that needs to be nerfed
• Only CO2 and sugar engines are available and the fuels are not easily generated at large quantities renewably. This means you can't have frequent taxies between plantoids until late game
  • CO2 are generated by dupes or coal generators
  • Sugar requires oil well -> sour gas boiling -> sweeties ranching

[Sasza22]

You are right for the most part. Just a quick dive in the suggestion and feedback forums will show you lots of threads about those exact issues, especially the first 2.

CO2 can be created in large quantities using the petroleum generator and the rocket doesn`t take that much fuel. Should be possible eventually, especially if you let CO2 stockpile in the bottom of your base for a while.

There is now a sulfur geyser guaranteed on the second planetoid which allows you to renew sucrose much easier.

[Pulstar]

Regarding CO2. If you need large renewable quantities then wood burners (generators) should work combined with pips happily planting wild trees everywhere, only problem is having enough space I guess. If you have excess polluted water you could even use domesticated ones to increase lumber production/reduce space use if you really need more CO2.

Also I started playing again after the Terra start was added in the DLC and I got one CO2 geyser on the "warp" planetoid with oil (swampy in my case) in the cold biome and 2 CO2 geysers in the "rocket" closest planetoid in cold radioactive biomes, only needed to rely on other sources when refuelling on the distant Icy asteroid and the Niobium magma one (haven't flown and mine the tungsten volcano planetoid yet). Could just be luck.

 

[Gurgel]

Yes, still pretty preliminary. Klei wanted to give us something over the year's end. Works but needs polish.

[Hodhandr]

if you can get enough CO2 to launch a single rocket once, you can build a rocket silo to recapture CO2.
One launch gives enough to fully fuel two rockets, if you can capture it all.
The launch itself, and subsequent landing, does not actually consume any fuel.

Yeah, that's a bit broken; though usually CO2 isn't something you need a lot of, and there are, as others have pointed out, other ways to get enough CO2 for a decent amount of rocketry.

The only real "value" from it is free CO2, and some heat, which might actually be a detriment, so I'm (ab)using it in my own save.

As for OP's three points:

• Filling up the pod is tedious... but if it was not, it would immensely worsen the issue of infinite storage (now with easy infinite oxygen storage!)
• On the flip side, if you couldn't (relatively) easily store a ton of stuff in even the cheapest pod, doing any sort of rocket travel would be a massive hurdle for less experienced/confident players.
• More rocketry parts are coming pretty soon (from what I've read I expect at least a petroleum engine by the end of january, maybe eaarly february).
  • As for the engines we have right now, I (and the previous posters) have mentioned the main solutions: Sulphur geyser, petroleum/wood generator, CO2 recapture, and you can also get CO2 vents as part of your random geysers (at 500C, but details). All of those are renewable.

[NewWorldDan]

The rocketry is kind of a mess.  I suppose it lets you play how you want, though.  My dupes fly daily missions to collect material from the metal volcanoes using the cargo bay (which is pitifully small).  The automation stinks.  I'd like a switch on the command capsule to tell it to call for the pilot.  And IO on the cargo bay to indicate fully loaded/unloaded.  Or on the loader mechanism.  I'm expecting bigger rockets in the not too distant future - engines that can handle multiple cargo bays.  And I want automation ports on everything. 

I'm not bothered that you can load as much cargo into the capsule as you want.  Play that way if you want.  It's impossible to return from the Niobium planet if you don't.  I expect to see some weight penalties in the future.  

 

[The Plum Gate]

I think they need two teirs of command module - luxury and spartan.

If they're into it, a third - freighter.

[Chained Phoenix]

People will go on and on about the rockets but they are just as bad in the old game and it's still early days for this one.  I appreciate all the little other changes which have happened more than the rockets so far.  It's certainly more challenging starting on a very small swamp biome asteroid (although now you have choices, this is an older save).

I like it overall.  I've hit the one year mark with-out even needing to leave the first two asteroids. I like having one smaller colony supported by the original via the teleporters you start with and I'm getting everything locked and loaded on those before I even venture out to the other asteroids.

Eventually the second asteroid will be my "hot zone" and the starting asteroid my "cool zone", I'm also hoping to automate everything on asteroid #2 so I can abandon the colony support side and just run it as a production site with occasional dupe visits to tweak some of the machines.

[Sasza22]

12 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

I think they need two teirs of command module - luxury and spartan.

If they're into it, a third - freighter.

Isn`t this what we currently have? Spartan solo nosecone that can only sit stuff that keeps a dupe alive and a luxury command module that needs an extra nosecone moule build on top but has enough room for multiple dupes some basic base systems and a little luxury.

[The Plum Gate]

The whole customizable interiors is nice, but so long as we can put just any old thing into it, it's breaking the concepts of the other storage specific modules.

My theory is that this freedom is going to change and there might be some rocket interior specific amenities we get to pull from a checklist to add where we want - but they would be rocket specifc and limited by the module capabilities. 

[hthought]

I love the fact that it's much simpler and way less tedious than the base game. However, it's still incomplete, there are no rockets for reaching far and coming back, which really sucks :/

I also really hate the interior thing. I think it's redundant and just not fun.

[leyt1125]

Klei just oversimplify their game - ugly small rockets out of ore, no need liquid O2 and H2, no need of steel, no meteor showers. Sigh

[hthought]

8 minutes ago, leyt1125 said:

Klei just oversimplify their game - ugly small rockets out of ore, no need liquid O2 and H2, no need of steel, no meteor showers. Sigh

That's actually really good. The previous rockets were very slow and super tedious, especially since liquid O2 and H2 without super coolant is suuuch a pain to setup.

This game is absolutely amazing, but needs simplification on some designs. Nobody wants or has the time to build overcomplicated systems like magma boylers. They are super fun to handle, but they really need to be simpler on taming them. 99% of people will never bother spending 30 minutes to setup a water guyser the proper way.

[Sasza22]

1 hour ago, leyt1125 said:

no need liquid O2 and H2, no need of steel, no meteor showers. Sigh

I`m pretty sure there will be need for liquid O2 and H2. They added new H2 sources in the plug slugs and the saturn critter traps. Likely that`s to balance the hydrogen production since you need a 1:1 ratio for the rockets and you get a 1:8 from electrolizers. Meteors are guaranteed to return as well. They are supposed to be a source of fullerene according to the database so we will get them back in some form.

[leyt1125]

14 hours ago, hthought said:

This game is absolutely amazing, but needs simplification on some designs. Nobody wants or has the time to build overcomplicated systems like magma boylers. They are super fun to handle, but they really need to be simpler on taming them. 99% of people will never bother spending 30 minutes to setup a water guyser the proper way.

I dont care about those 99% people, lazy idiots already have simple games like 5 in row, clan clash or farm frenzy. Why oversimplify one of the few interesting games? People like you are the reason the gaming industry is degrading for the sake of casuals. Me no want think and learn me want space naw ugghhh 

Why remove complex and interesting mechanics from the game? It was much more interesting for me to study complex mechanics on one asteroid, than get 5 simple grind beds. It was cool to get the Great Escape achievement, debugging and rebuilding steel production, liquid hydrogen, by automating the takeoff and landing of rockets with protection from meteors.
If now you can build a rocket from ore and **** on turn 10. Why do you need steel at all. liquid oxygen, fullerene and so on?
There are not even any threats on the new map, it is simply impossible not to not survive in it - lots of food, a lot of water, a lot of oxygen, germs is just laughter, the colony is not in danger, the temperature is perfect, bugs and dimensionless storages have not been fixed. Why develop at all? For 6 boring beds for more grinding resources, when is their abundance?

Klei should give us high-end content, trials and threats, events threatening colonies, lack of resources, new acheivements and so on. At lest as an option for experienced players (game fan). Now I'm more disappointed with the new dlc, no challenge at all = no point to play.

[hthought]

7 minutes ago, leyt1125 said:

I dont care about those 99% people, lazy idiots already have simple games like 5 in row, clan clash or farm frenzy. Why oversimplify one of the few interesting games? People like you are the reason the gaming industry is degrading for the sake of casuals. Me no want think and learn me want space naw ugghhh 

Why remove complex and interesting mechanics from the game? It was much more interesting for me to study complex mechanics on one asteroid, than get 5 simple grind beds. It was cool to get the Great Escape achievement, debugging and rebuilding steel production, liquid hydrogen, by automating the takeoff and landing of rockets with protection from meteors.
If now you can build a rocket from ore and **** on turn 10. Why do you need steel at all. liquid oxygen, fullerene and so on?
There are not even any threats on the new map, it is simply impossible not to not survive in it - lots of food, a lot of water, a lot of oxygen, germs is just laughter, the colony is not in danger, the temperature is perfect, bugs and dimensionless storages have not been fixed. Why develop at all? For 6 boring beds for more grinding resources, when is their abundance?

Klei should give us high-end content, trials and threats, events threatening colonies, lack of resources, new acheivements and so on. At lest as an option for experienced players (game fan). Now I'm more disappointed with the new dlc, no challenge at all = no point to play.

Indeed 99% of people have lives too, but i get that you and the rest 1% exist as well.

I would only call people who take the time to learn such extensive mechanics  just to play a game lazy, including myself when I do. Most people have other things to do in life and they don't want to become ONI experts, but have a good time while playing. Because they prefer living in the real world.

[Pulstar]

I think it is obvious the current iteration of rocketry and the surface is very preliminary and mostly guided by the need to get feedback fast on the new things in the Alpha, such as the rocket interiors which the playerbase managed to creatively abuse to the limit (or maybe not yet to the limit).

I expect meteors, regolith, solar power and some other stuff to be reworked to fit the new system eventually in Early Access before DLC "full release", along with rebalancing rocketry to have better challenge/reward. Bunker tiles in particular seem pointless at the moment and shove vole ranching needs to be a thing again (maybe just not such a ridiculous thing).

In general I think the new system does more things good than bad and it has potential. Obvious issues such as infinite internal storage need to be addressed. I would just use the mass of everything to determine actual rocket range/speed, tons of tungsten dropped from a container on the floor inside included (also the dupes themselves and critters).

Probably the DLC would need some new UI tools to improve the experience enough for exact mass so that it isn't too annoying (ex. projection of maximum return cargo mass and warnings if you want to get back, so you don't get stranded), but honestly I don't see how else they could remove the possible storage exploits without getting rid of interiors. I think this is one case where abstracting something makes the solution/implementation end up more complicated than just going more realistic.

And interiors I do like in principle, they added complexity and solved such issues as astronaut dupes practically not needing morale, food, oxygen etc. A life in space was clearly all they needed in the base game. Food and toilets were just a dupe's poor substitute for space life, maybe it was deep space cosmic radiation they needed.

Maybe instead of seperate abstract cargo/fuel/liquid tanks we should just be able to build our own tanks inside the rocket interior with ports to transport in/out from the TARDIS-esque rocket interior dimension (or the modules would add "space" below in the interior)? Then you could split tank interiors, insulate cryogenic (or very hot) materials to prevent phase change/mixing (or not) and later deal with radiation (I guess and hope). Maybe even build small internal refineries/processing plants or ranches in larger rockets if we want to and find a way to fit enough stuff in on top of an engine and propellant that can get the rocket anywhere useful.

Or even dock rockets in space to create larger ones or stations, combining interiors (probably would need to seperate to land). Seriously there is a lot of potential with the new interiors and starmap

Lastly automation ports going in/out of the rocket interior dimension would be great.

[Chained Phoenix]

On 1/8/2021 at 7:26 PM, leyt1125 said:

I dont care about those 99% people, lazy idiots already have simple games like 5 in row, clan clash or farm frenzy. Why oversimplify one of the few interesting games? People like you are the reason the gaming industry is degrading for the sake of casuals. Me no want think and learn me want space naw ugghhh 

Why remove complex and interesting mechanics from the game? It was much more interesting for me to study complex mechanics on one asteroid, than get 5 simple grind beds. It was cool to get the Great Escape achievement, debugging and rebuilding steel production, liquid hydrogen, by automating the takeoff and landing of rockets with protection from meteors.
If now you can build a rocket from ore and **** on turn 10. Why do you need steel at all. liquid oxygen, fullerene and so on?
There are not even any threats on the new map, it is simply impossible not to not survive in it - lots of food, a lot of water, a lot of oxygen, germs is just laughter, the colony is not in danger, the temperature is perfect, bugs and dimensionless storages have not been fixed. Why develop at all? For 6 boring beds for more grinding resources, when is their abundance?

Klei should give us high-end content, trials and threats, events threatening colonies, lack of resources, new acheivements and so on. At lest as an option for experienced players (game fan). Now I'm more disappointed with the new dlc, no challenge at all = no point to play.

Just so you know, they didn't remove the original game, it's still right there...  Obviously you weren't around for the pre-release days of the original either which had HEAPS of systems which didn't work or had no punishment for screw ups.  Hell I still want to see my dupes die immediately if they accidentally inhale chlorine gas or touch lava.

It's a work in progress, it's very bare bones, no one is forcing you to exploit it, and they have difficulty levels if you want more/less of a challenge.

Most of the changes are great, there are a bunch of skills listed as "WIP" so obviously a lot more content is coming... Feel free to disappear until it does, whining in here isn't going to achieve much when you're judging an unfinished product.

[Gurgel]

On 1/8/2021 at 10:26 AM, leyt1125 said:

I dont care about those 99% people, lazy idiots already have simple games like 5 in row, clan clash or farm frenzy. Why oversimplify one of the few interesting games? People like you are the reason the gaming industry is degrading for the sake of casuals. Me no want think and learn me want space naw ugghhh 

Well, your wording and stance is debatable, but the issue at the core is that some people want simple games and others want a challenge. ONI is occupying a specific niche in the latter group. Fortunately, we have simple global distribution today and such a (comparatively) small niche is still entirely enough to keep significant development going. 

On 1/8/2021 at 10:33 AM, hthought said:

Indeed 99% of people have lives too, but i get that you and the rest 1% exist as well.

That is not the issue. While ONI can consume a great amount of time (I should know), that is not what draws players to it or keeps them away. Most people either cannot handle the complexity ONI comes with it or have no desire to. But there are enough people that do and want to and the really cool thing is that you can get most things working well with a purely experimental stance, no actual STEM background required. 

Also, talking down like this to anybody that has a hobby they really invest in is just boundless and completely unjustified arrogance.

[hthought]

3 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Also, talking down like this to anybody that has a hobby they really incest in is just boundless and completely unjustified arrogance.

You really missed the point. That was a response to someone saying that people who don't view ONI as their profession are lazy idiots. Which was the only arrogant thing in this whole conversation.

[Gurgel]

4 hours ago, hthought said:

You really missed the point. That was a response to someone saying that people who don't view ONI as their profession are lazy idiots. Which was the only arrogant thing in this whole conversation.

I really do not think so. Your response was sweeping and includes a lot more people than just the one you responded too.

[hthought]

14 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I really do not think so. Your response was sweeping and includes a lot more people than just the one you responded too.

lol whatever

[Baer]

I do not like it. I came back to see what changes and how it´s going but, it is the same boring endgame. But with more broken Design decisions! 

Yes! We can now use Co2 instead of Steam, what make it´s easier to start the rocket and that's it. At this point, the lost interest. Give me back my good old petrol/hydrogen rockets! What the Duck is this sucrose nonsense? 

Commandcapsule, ist this some sort of joke? You put a algae aquarium in it and wait a couple of cycles, so the air pressure is high enough to prevent co2 and other nasty stuff. Yeah! Innovativ! Why not use the old design and put some input and output in it and make it a big batterie? So the player wont bother with this nonsense and can build a nice looking inside.

What it the point for the robot? The same like Sweepie? Big boss came up with the idea and no one had the guts to tell him, who he can put... uff! Let me at least recharge them somehow, or disassembling him. Or let them build everything, so i can have a nie looking base for the arriving dupes (and a bunch of death robots everywhere). 

Oh and it would be nice if Abyssalite would please stop overheating the entire map over time. Thanks!