Wilson rework concept

[xxXolot]

On 1/1/2021 at 2:44 PM, JaxckLl said:

This is perfect! I especially love your idea of the portable science machine. That would really reinforce Wilson as the "default" choice for new players, as they would get the ability to prototype right off the bat. The extra healing perk is also a nice touch, as it makes Wilson more forgiving for newer players. Only suggestion I would make is to give him an alternative Booster Shot recipe which uses Butterfly Wings instead of Rot. Rot can be frustrating resource to gather in first Autumn, since it is rare for enough rottables to have been accumulated and not consumed to leave behind the 8 needed for the Booster Shot. Having a recipe which uses Butterfly Wings would also teach new players the value of butterflies as a resource, and encourage them to practice their kiting on a defenseless but quick enemy.

The Portable Science Machine also opens up space for a witchy character who starts with a portable Prestihatinator.

I don't know about the alternative booster shot recipe idea tho, was there any other in-game recipe that has alternative recipe?? and butterfly isn't exactly a real life medicine, also I actually don't know people kite butterfly? I thought kiting is for dodging thing who attack and need multiple hit to be killed, for me killing butterfly is the exact opposite of kiting haha.

But thanks a bunch for liking my idea! A witchy character at some point of future sounds like a nice idea.

2 hours ago, Hellheater said:

if wilson will get rework and get abilities who should count as a default character

A default character doesn't mean it can't be unique! It's just need to be simple and uncomplicated ability wise. Really by that logic he already isn't a default character because he has an ability that grows beard LOL

The fact stands that he just has almost zero team contribution ability wise beside providing beard, and making effigy as reviving option isn't as important compare to solo play. I really like Wilson as a character but every time I play him I feel like I chose an unhelpful character. At least everyone knows Wes is supposed to be bad...

[JaxckLl]

Well, I guess "kite" is not the right word. Butterflies teach players to anticipate how they will react to other mobs, a crucial skill to kiting effectively against more dangerous foes.

I don't see how you can say "butterflies aren't real life medicine" when Booster Shots are literally made with Rot. Alternative recipes effectively already exist with mechanics such as Woodie's axe (Woodie essentially gets to craft an infinite number of axes for free) and Wigfrid's battle gear (which is better than the vanilla stuff as well as being alternative). Has there been an explicit alternative recipe for the same item before? No, the easy solution for which is to make an identically functioning, but visually distinct character specific item.

Wolfgang is far closer to a "default" character than Wilson. Wilson generates a unique resource, Wolfgang is a vanilla character but more. He has more stomach, but also more hunger. More damage & speed, but also more fear of the dark & monsters. Every other character in the game does something unique or has some unique resource, except for Wolfgang.

[xxXolot]

3 hours ago, JaxckLl said:

Booster Shots are literally made with Rot

Well that is definitely a reference to Penicillin mold which is famous for being antibiotic, but I see what you are saying about identically functioning but visually distinct item, I am slightly against the idea adding a Wilson specific craft other than the Portable Science Machine / Portable Alchemy Engine just because he suck at creating new thing by himself lore wise but really whatever float the balance boat! Maybe we can have a healing tab for everyone and he can craft whatever is in that tab faster, and speak of that....

Slightly off the Wilson topic, maybe we can have illness mechanic for the players because let's face it, the next thing that kills someone in an unforgiving wild other than hunger and beast is being sick. Getting poisoned by a new kind of spider / mushroom, catch cold by being wet too long instead of sanity drop, flu season, chance of getting flea from beefalo, getting sick from mosquito and Walter's allergy. Now imagine a tab for different medicines, antidote, allergic medicine, cold killer, even mask to stop illness from spreading between player, also a new hygiene meter that grants you a slow sanity / health gain and reduced chance of getting sick when you have good hygiene, and a new set of craft that manage hygiene meter like soap, towel and bathtub structure and actually using that hot spring on lunar island... Probably need to be more rewarding so it doesn't end up like the just removed plant disease, but hey maybe Wilson can be good at making medicines but that's minor part.

I have no input about Wolfgang but for me he is more of the extremely torn up / torn down character, hard to call him default when his play style is pretty much different compare to other character and that's what makes him unique for now at least before the rework/backstory hits.

[JaxckLl]

Disease is a terrible mechanic for game at the tactical level. There's no gradation, you're either sick or you're not. Disease is typically presented as a punishment mechanic, and punishment are by nature not fun. Disease is only interesting as a mechanic once you scale up to the size of populations.

[Azamagon]

@xxXolot The portable science/alchemy machine thing is good enough! It would still have a use even lategame, actually. You know how you get those gifts every hour of playing? Well, that means he can get those wherever he wants, which is pretty nifty..

If you combine that idea with making this portable machine into also functioning as a chemistry station (unique to Wilson, something along the lines of the OP's idea), and you got yourself a clear Mad Scientist kind of vibe going which is also helpful to the newcomers.

[xxXolot]

@JaxckLl Ha you are right, In the end it's probably really hard to make any disease mechanic rewarding so please ignore my blabber.

@Azamagon To be honest I feel like chemistry station is like an overdue ability for him. Everyone's desire all manifested in Constant lore wise (Wigfrid actually gets to be Valkyrie / Wendy can somewhat still be with her sis etc) But Wilson never gets any even though he desire unknown knowledge / exciting experiment. maybe simply be in Constant already qualify but man this guy gets the short end of stick for getting pulled into Constant. I could get over the fact some people want to keep Wilson simple so he shouldn't get any unique craft and this is somewhat true lore wise, but seriously unique craft it's not even a complicated concept for newcomer. People ain't that dumb lol

Still, I would keep him away from significant unique craft just because he is the scientist wannabe who isn't very good at doing science, but I am also totally up for unique recipe if that makes him fun and contributing gameplay wise.

[Azamagon]

5 hours ago, xxXolot said:

 

@Azamagon To be honest I feel like chemistry station is like an overdue ability for him. Everyone's desire all manifested in Constant lore wise (Wigfrid actually gets to be Valkyrie / Wendy can somewhat still be with her sis etc) But Wilson never gets any even though he desire unknown knowledge / exciting experiment. maybe simply be in Constant already qualify but man this guy gets the short end of stick for getting pulled into Constant. I could get over the fact some people want to keep Wilson simple so he shouldn't get any unique craft and this is somewhat true lore wise, but seriously unique craft it's not even a complicated concept for newcomer. People ain't that dumb lol

Still, I would keep him away from significant unique craft just because he is the scientist wannabe who isn't very good at doing science, but I am also totally up for unique recipe if that makes him fun and contributing gameplay wise.

Doesn't even have to be unique crafts though (although things like the items from the Mad Lab station would be fitting, but I digress), it could just be that he puts together X items - like a certain amount of "essence" which OP mentioned - and when he concocts those, he gets randomized loot out of it. Or, loot related(ish) to the essence he uses (but mostly maybe just ends up with rot or something), so if he's lucky he could get a gold nugget from Pig essence, a gear from Clockwork essence, a gem or hound teeth from Hound essence etc.

[Valak]

On 12/29/2020 at 2:32 PM, xxXolot said:

While someone mentioned Wilson rework I am gonna propose mine here.

I think Wilson should be that kind of character that is not really that good, but an easy one to start with. His perk is simply having no down side, but with other character all have some way to patch their own downside with much greater perk on other aspect I think he deserve a little bit more perk.

Just a tiny bit of perk that help newbie more at beginning, not really good perk so doesn't really need a downside to balance thing out, while bring in at least some value to the team, and of course, perk that fits his character.

- start with a portable science machine that can be upgraded to a portable alchemy engine, both can be used by anyone, but can only be craft / disassembled by Wilson.

1. This can help absolute newcomer to immediately realize the importance of higher tier crafting, but wouldn't need to be pressured to find their first piece of gold. Still need some gold to upgrade to portable alchemy engine.

2. Team contribution wise, can help other player to prototype on spot at early game.

3. As players prototype more recipes, this thing become much less useful and a waste in inventory spot, so it's just good enough to start but not really good.

4. He is the staple scientist wannabe in the game! This just fits the trait that he likes to do new science, but is not good enough to come up with his own unique new thing.

- prototype gives him 25 sanity instead of 15

an intentionally useless perk in late game but perhaps help on newbie to not get bothered by shadow monster in early game.
also fit the trait that he likes to do new science.

- Can craft and use healing salve and honey poultices faster for 0.5 second instead of usual 1 second.
- Have a different quote when examining a player that has health below 1/2 and another one below 1/3.
- Boost healing effect when Wilson used it on himself or others. 
(+5hp / +10hp / effect x1.25 / effect x1.5 etc., the one that doesn't feel broken I guess)

This is going to be the most major buff he is going to get. As people have been pointing out, he has been somewhat associated with being a doctor. This would let him contribute in combat other than easy beard material for let team make effigy as just one of the reviving option. And Bernie if there is a Willow I guess.

This is differentiated with Wortox's small AoE healing, more of the individual bigger amount healing.

bonus could be applied to booster shot / telltale heart, but boost shot can't be used on other people and telltale heart is pretty much magic and not a doctor thing so should probably just be left as it is.

The only doubt I have is this may create newbie Wilson that just trying to be a healer and avoids fight, but they can be taught I guess.

Also since he isn't great at creating new stuff, he ain't getting more unique crafting recipes.

Above would be my idea of Wilson rework, it's pretty simple and boring but at least it pretty much fit his character.

-

Other interesting tweak I can think of is maybe he can have insanity aura when he has full of beard that applies to everyone but himself, 
because his beard is probably pretty gross to everyone else / beard is associated with insanity. On the other hand, he would have sanity Aura when he has no beard due to some kind of protagonist charm I guess? although still only applies to other people. This can create some interesting beard managing situation.

Or maybe some extra damage modifier to shadow creature due to getting accustomed to nightmare because of the throne event?
This can help a newbie fight when they went insane and probably be pretty useful for nightmare cycle, other wise is a pretty useless perk.
but honestly this is quite a stretch and should probably just be tossed.

I second'd this idea. this fits so well with his character, and really consolidates the fact that Wilson is supposed to be the first character that can be used by the player - Bonus effect on basic things newcomers need to learn (like a sort of training wheel) and nothing crazy with abilities.

Also while I'm at it, 

On 1/4/2021 at 11:41 PM, Hellheater said:

if wilson will get rework and get abilities who should count as a default character

Wilson will still be the default character. it's not like Wilson will be tweaked to have a huge downside, but just as a training wheel to help newcomers as well as still providing help to others.

But if you really are against the idea of Wilson being changed because you want a character with no attributes to speak of, then we can make Wes the new default character. give him a small buff to have the same stats as pre-reworked Wilson and call it the Wes rework,

[HellHeater]

On 1/4/2021 at 6:28 PM, xxXolot said:

A default character doesn't mean it can't be unique!

of course it does 

 

On 1/16/2021 at 8:27 PM, Valak said:

Wilson will still be the default character. it's not like Wilson will be tweaked to have a huge downside, but just as a training wheel to help newcomers as well as still providing help to others.

in a uncompromising survival game??

[HowlVoid]

On 1/4/2021 at 5:41 AM, Hellheater said:

if wilson will get rework and get abilities who should count as a default character

  I don't understand this stand that is probably no longer applicable to DST. In single player this make sense because he truly is the first character where a plethora of downsides may be detrimental to a players learning experience.

 All characters are available by default and it can no longer be controlled which a character is used as the defacto training wheels. Now, however, we have an official tier list by Klei themselves based on a characters chance of survival (slim, grim, none). What makes matters worse is the fact that some character are better "default  Wilson" than Wilson himself.

Wendy: Her only downside is it taking longer to fight shadow creatures.

Woodie: A transformation during full moon that may be beneficial.

Willow: Most of her downsides are directly countered by Bernie.

 

[Valak]

On 1/18/2021 at 11:21 PM, Hellheater said:

in a uncompromising survival game??

Yes.

[Bedohaza]

I agree with some of the ideas (portable science machine, more prototype sanity for him, other character's empowering). However I understand there is need a beginner character which is not too complex for newbies to they could know the world and mechanics so after then they try the others.

For this reason I think Wilson should be a survivor character. Maybe he should lose half of the max health on resurrect than the others. This would give some help the newbies but wouldn't be absolute useless for veterans too.More beard recipes should be good. We have only 2 recipes for beard hair and one is character specific. For example some warming clothes or waterproof stuff. 

[xxXolot]

I kinda doubt on half max health lose because I would need to intentionally die twice so I won’t feel like I am wasting Booster Shot, unless they also implement a lower tier Booster Shot item that store half of max health.

But I absolutely agree with more beard recipe, I even think we could focus on character specific recipe that use beard so Wilson player could feel a bit worth playing with anyone that’s not Willow.

A ghostly elixir for Wendy that revive Abigail with penalty that set her back to previous level, a book for Wickerbottom that summon shadow monsters that would aggro the summoner regardless of sanity, bring the Perfect Disguise to DST for Webber so he can have easier time making friend with pigs / can even share it with Wortox, a ballad for Wigfrid..... I ran out of idea lol

I just want beard hair to be to more than just free fuel for fire pit really, I don’t know about other people but I don’t really use a lot of meat effigies.

 

 

[Chesmu]

I think Wilson should be left alone as the default classic nostalgic character of the game; Adding too much content on him can be damaging to his vibe.