Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

JaxckLl

Improved Shadow Creature Difficulty Options

Recommended Posts

Casual play in Don't Starve is almost impossible. Your resources decline so quickly and there are so many recurring threats that there's at most 5 minutes of quiet at a time. This is not a bad thing, the constant interruption makes the game extremely intense & fresh. However it is also very  off-putting for less hardcore players. To this end I suggest adding a world setting which allows us to adjust the intensity of Shadow Creatures,

  • One slider adjusts the overall rate of passive sanity loss from sources such as darkness or monster auras. A lower setting makes the game more accessible while a higher setting makes insanity much more common. I would expect this setting to scale ALL passive sanity shifts, essentially slowing down the rate at which one goes insane but also extending the time it takes to passively reach sanity once again. Would this make sanity restoring foods better? Absolutely, but that's not a bad thing for players that just want to explore what DST has to offer rather than fight shadow creatures constantly.
  • A second slider adjusts how many shadow creatures can appear at once. At minimum setting, two crawling horrors appear at 0 sanity. At maximum, three terrorbeaks and three crawling horrors.

Having both settings allows for a variety of insanity difficulty levels. Normal insanity but fewer creatures for a player new to the game. Slow insanity with fewer creatures for casual, stretched out play. High insanity with extra creatures for the additional high-intensity challenge.

Difficulty is a tough nut to crack with DST thanks to its overall design, but I feel these two sliders would go a long way to making each world feel easier or harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like this is something that should be added with mods if one wishes. Because the game already has all the tools you need to avoid insanity forever if u want, its just a matter of learning where to look. When i started out in DST the only character i played was Wickerbottom whos large sanity pool was tricky to manage for a newbie until i started making Top Hats as soon as i found spider nests etc

Wigfrid and Wormwood have a very easy time managing sanity in case u were interested. Willow too, and she even has a bodyguard against nightmares. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sanity is probably the least of your problems in DST, there are a bunch of ways to raise and lower ones sanity- the most common of ways is in the spoiler:

Spoiler

Sleeping. I mean even when I was a complete noob at this franchise, I knew that hey if I’m stranded on an island for days on end without sleep and I start seeing things maybe it’s time to take a nap and restore my sanity (and health) before I go mad!

There are of course other ways of restoring it- various cooked and uncooked food, items, simply picking flowers and once you pluck 12 making a pretty head garland, (unless your playing as Wormwood) but the Spoiler method is the best option.

Wormwood can restore his by:

Spoiler

Simply gathering and planting random seeds everywhere.

And don’t even get me started on Walter- He constantly loses sanity when he is injured, but he has so many gimmicky ways of restoring it that it’s pretty much a Non-Issue for Walter:

Spoiler

You can literally stand anywhere there’s a lot of trees, wear your special pine tree pioneer hat or simply tell campfire stories by a campfire to restore sanity.

lastly as Wendy you can have Abigail do the following:

Spoiler

Kill tons of Spiders for you, make top hats for everyone in the entire server, create the Sisturn, fill it with four flower petals and stand beside Sisturn to passively regain sanity much like Walters Campfire stories.

The MOBILE version of Single player DS has a NO SWEAT mode where you can turn off freezing to death, overheating, insanity, nightmare monsters, and even starving to death: This mode is not my cup of tea because it then just turns DS into a peaceful base building game with literally minimal ways of ever actually dying.

But nonetheless- this mode is something KLEI created, it’s something they officially made, so maybe you could try to convince Klei dev’s to add the No Sweat Mode to DST?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm looking for something inbetween full No Sweat, the existing DST, and Uncompromising. This is not really content appropriate for a mod since it is so integral to the experience and best implemented as a world-gen slider. Every other form of recurring harassment (dogs, wildfire, rain) can be adjusted in the settings, why not shadow creatures as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JaxckLl said:

Every other form of recurring harassment (dogs, wildfire, rain) can be adjusted in the settings, why not shadow creatures as well?

Because they can be adjusted while playing. If your intent is to play casual i cant imagine what you get up to that would cause you to be insane so frequently and severely that its an issue. Your sanity has to be like at 15% for the first Terrorbeak to appear. Anything higher and its always Crawling Horrors and definitely never more than 2. 

You cant lessen the amount of dogs u get while playing, nor can you lessen the frequency of rain and wildfires. What you can do while playing is keep your sanity at least above like 50% and you'll never get bothered by nightmare creatures.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

okay I’ll do this one more time: Spoilers that will save your life and make Sanity a Non-Issue most your playtime below.

Spoiler

Green Mushrooms (uncooked) decrease sanity- Good to help Auto Trigger Willows Doll Bernie into BERNIE (the big version designed to kill all shadows for you)

Green Mushrooms (Cooked) restores Sanity- You learn this early on if you play Wickerbottom who can’t sleep.

Blue Mushrooms restore both Sanity and Health depending on if cooked or not.

And.. if not playing Wickerbottom Sleeping inside a Tent or Siesta-Lean-To restores Sanity and Health in exchange for Hunger.

Dried Meat (Meat placed on a Drying Rack and let turn into Jerky Meat) Will also restore Sanity.

Picking Flowers till you have 12 of them and creating a Head Garland in the hats tab will restore Sanity, getting 6 Silk from a Spider and crafting a Top Hat will restore Sanity.

Playing as Wendy and creating a Sisturn and filling it with 4 flower petals will restore Sanity when standing near it.

Playing as Walter and standing in a forest of trees while wearing your pine tree pioneer hat or telling campfire stories at a Campfire will restore sanity.

Playing as Wormwood and planting Pinecones, Birchnuts are random seeds that birds drop will restore sanity.

Additionally: Just wearing a Football helmet (crafted with 1 rope which is prototyped from 3 grass, and 1 pig skin) and fighting the very very slow moving Crawling Horrors and killing them or the harder, faster moving variants Terrorbeaks- Will ALSO Restore Sanity. (You have to walk towards them and away so they miss their attack and then go into a screaming animation of frustration- that is when you attack them.)

And yes.. the Get Gud Argument is a good one for people to be telling you, because if you can’t fight very slow moving crawling horrors, you can’t fight most other (non-shadow monster) mobs in the game.

Just Killing Beefalo for their Horns and Fur alone for Winter gear would be too hard, because they actually move faster and attack more frequently then the crawling horrors.

Attack, attack, attack, walk away from attack, attack again rinse repeat that is how most encounters in DST are handle- that or Wear Helmet, Wear Armor, and stand directly in front of it soaking in its attacks while continuously pressing the Attack button.

Play as Wigfrid and she actually regains health and sanity with each hit she hits the enemy with. (It’s why we all say she vampires health & sanity) draining the life out of her enemy to heal & restore herself.

Seriously PLAY AS WIGFRID.. she will teach you how to “Safely” predict kiting patterns of all mobs in the game.

Knowledge you can learn as Wigfrid- and then apply to any other character you want to play after you learn the patterns of attack

I hope this helps you, and Merry Christmas Everyone! :wilson_love:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually not very familiar at all with Shadow Creature mechanics, how many can actually spawn from insanity for a solo player in DST? The most I ever get is like one Terror and one Crawling together or two Crawling. This doesn't count being near Nightmare lights and other specific situations where you can be fighting like ten at once...

As a Wig main I make sure to kill them pretty quickly though or to raise my sanity if I cbf/need to sail soon/whatever. Maybe I am resolving the situation before more than 2 can spawn at a time? Is this the case or do more than 2 only spawn if there are multiple players or whatever?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

I'm actually not very familiar at all with Shadow Creature mechanics, how many can actually spawn from insanity for a solo player in DST? The most I ever get is like one Terror and one Crawling together or two Crawling. This doesn't count being near Nightmare lights and other specific situations where you can be fighting like ten at once...

As a Wig main I make sure to kill them pretty quickly though or to raise my sanity if I cbf/need to sail soon/whatever. Maybe I am resolving the situation before more than 2 can spawn at a time? Is this the case or do more than 2 only spawn if there are multiple players or whatever?

Maximum I've had on the surface is three of each at the same time. I believe it comes down to how you are moving while insane. You hit the creature, it despawns on the opposite edge of the screen as you are running away, and so the game spawns in a new one right in front of you. I don't think I've ever hit 0 Sanity and not had to fight at least two Terrorbeaks & a Crawler, and that's with most of my playtime in solo. The spawning mechanics for Shadow Creatures feels a bit buggy because of this, and it really hurts the overall solo experience.

@ Everyone else: You guys are missing the point. *I* do not have an issue with the Sanity mechanic. If I did, I wouldn't have literally hundreds of hours and dozens of playthroughs with the game. My issue is the lack of world settings that allow me to introduce the game to other players, or to set up a game for myself which isn't DOOM levels of stressful. ALL other sources of recurring difficulty (hounds, giants, fire, rain, temp) can be adjusted in the settings. The vast, vast majority of deaths for my playgroup are from Terrorbeaks. That is something over which it would be nice to have some control without requiring messing with other forms of difficulty (such as increasing the rate of Mushrooms).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do get where your coming from but Nightmare creatures are the single constant threat of Don’t Starve- your friends will never learn the game if you remove them. And as you said- you can already remove most threats.. remove THESE and what do you have left?

Besides Klei has been making Sanity monsters easier and easier to deal with (compare Wavey Jones when he first released to Wavey Jones now as an example- Wavey was brutal & unforgiving at first!) 

Your friends Sanity issues are probably caused by the character they pick to play, or their lack of knowledge about the game: For example did you know that a WENDY player carrying around a Pipspook with her will drain the Sanity of every non-Wendy player that is near that Pipspook?

Yup Pipspook drain Sanity: And this is a great (Passive) Way for Willow players to Trigger BERNIE! Without using any resources to do it.

But unless your friends are playing as Wickerbottom- A simple nights sleep will restore their Sanity.

It should go without having to say it but if someone goes for days on end without sleep they start imagining & seeing things. Even in State of Decay you have to swap your characters out and let them sleep or they become too tired to actually function.

I defend shadow monsters because as a Wendy Main they are Wendy’s biggest threat, the one thing Abigail won’t help you fight at all.. which means Wendy’s hits weaker than average downside is still in 100% full effect here: And in fact with the last large return of them update Forgotten Knowledge literally triggering a SHADOW War between Nightmare Creatures and Gashalts, I will be highly disappointed if this does not add some new types of shadow monsters into the game at some point.

But- if you see your friends going insane (they’ll hold their head and rock back and forth) and you see them fighting what appears to be thin air (when you are not also insane) then you can actually attack with them: And when you hit the shadow creature it will become real and Aggro onto you too.

I should mention: BERNIE is designed to make quick work of shadow creatures.. But Willow will only regain Sanity while fighting them if SHE (and Not BERNIE) is the one that gets the last hit in on killing it, so as fun as it is to let BERNIE! Wreck shadows: Unless your farming Nightmare Fuel your going to want to get the final hit in on the shadow to restore your sanity.

Nightmare Fuel is another thing I should discuss: This is a mid/late game resource-  it can only be obtained through the killing of Shadow Monsters, and it has a multitude of uses most commonly used in the construction of Maxwells Shadow workers.. but there are other uses it serves too once you reach Prestihatinator or Higher tier crafting stations.

Being able to turn Shadow Monsters completely off would break a good bit of the game (the nightmare cycle in ruins, the new forgotten knowledges Shadow War, Maxwell as a playable character.)

Which is probably why all that other stuff has a toggle to turn off but Nightmare creatures do not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you even read my original post? My suggestion is to add a slider that allows the world host to set a maximum number of shadow creatures that can spawn from insanity per player at any one time. Nowhere did I discuss the Nightmare mode in the Ruins (the Ruins have a bunch of issues, but none of which relate directly to this thread). Nowhere did I suggest disabling shadow creatures entirely. Please, read what the other person has posted before you reply.

My suggestions are aimed at creating a slower, less intense version of Don't Starve appropriate for more casual players who don't enjoy the manic combat that can occur when all difficulty settings are turned up. Making these systems a slider would also allow the opposite, a world that is faster, less forgiving, and more manic.

Stop trying to solve the problem you think exists, and please address the suggestions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/28/2020 at 1:30 AM, JaxckLl said:

Maximum I've had on the surface is three of each at the same time. I believe it comes down to how you are moving while insane. You hit the creature, it despawns on the opposite edge of the screen as you are running away, and so the game spawns in a new one right in front of you. I don't think I've ever hit 0 Sanity and not had to fight at least two Terrorbeaks & a Crawler, and that's with most of my playtime in solo. The spawning mechanics for Shadow Creatures feels a bit buggy because of this, and it really hurts the overall solo experience.

Woah not sure if I have ever had more than absolute max three shadow creatures (of either type) at once while insane on the surface. This must be because of Wigfrids Sanity gain on combat hits and that I combat shadow creatures immediately. I must be staying off complete zero sanity most of the time or quickly gaining a few points from hitting shadow creatures when they appear stopping me from staying at 0 sanity and spawning more.

The more you learn!

On 12/28/2020 at 7:41 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Besides Klei has been making Sanity monsters easier and easier to deal with (compare Wavey Jones when he first released to Wavey Jones now as an example- Wavey was brutal & unforgiving at first!) 

Nightmare Fuel is another thing I should discuss: This is a mid/late game resource-  it can only be obtained through the killing of Shadow Monsters, and it has a multitude of uses most commonly used in the construction of Maxwells Shadow workers.. but there are other uses it serves too once you reach Prestihatinator or Higher tier crafting stations.

I agree with some of what you have said but just in reference to these two points.
I would not really count the changing of Wavey as Klei making sanity monsters easier in general - they only changed him and didn't change anything to do with actual shadow monsters that can damage and attack you, in fact didn't they add a second new terrifying one for when you are really low sanity in the ocean? Not wavy the other one with the claws. Wavey is unique because hes a boat destroyer/trickster not a straight up physical threat that wants to chomp down on you. His original mechanics were completely busted and he essentially destroyed boats that were just in your screen even if you were on land, he was also a little too unforgiving and would not only appear the second you weren't at pretty much full sanity but would also wreak absolute havoc. He was changed to only appear if you are actually on a boat (this makes complete sense and before it was honestly really silly) and he now only takes certain actions (like pulling out boat patches) at certain sanity levels. He desperately needed a fix as he was simply too painful/common as he was generally viewed as unfair or far too annoying and he could total boats very quickly. How else have Sanity monsters been made easier? They added the additional ocean one (again not wavey) and added a new biome where you can have constant terror breaks appearing and harassing you so if anything I would argue the opposite and say shadow creatures are now more common and slightly more threatening as they appear in new situations they did not before.

Nightmare fuel CAN be obtained outside of killing shadow creatures. You can get NM fuel by clearing the ruins - both the statues and clockworks drop it and you can easily get a full stack each ruins clear without fighting any shadow monsters. They are obviously the main source of it but you can get it in other ways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ I agree with pretty much everything you said. The point about NMF is also kind of moot in a post-Moon Glass Chopper world. There are several high-grade options for weaponry, so Dark Swords are no longer the end all they once were. Armour is still a wash, we could do with some more pieces (personally I'd like to see Gemstone Armor incorporated into the game somehow. Perhaps Gems can be added to a Marble Suit as an upgraded form which prevents stuns?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not sure a slider would be needed. for a casual world that is friendly to beginners you just set mushrooms to 'more' or 'lots' same with cactus and flowers that way your newbie friend has access to something that improves sanity at all times(well, on land, haha). instead of something to make insanity easier it would be more ideal to prevent insanity all together, yeah?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're kind of missing the point. Every other enemy class can be turned down or adjusted, why not shadow creatures? Why do shadow creatures have to be adjusted with resource availability instead of adjusted directly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JaxckLl said:

You're kind of missing the point. Every other enemy class can be turned down or adjusted, why not shadow creatures? Why do shadow creatures have to be adjusted with resource availability instead of adjusted directly?

maybe because disabling them makes one stat meter useless

but would be nice to have a 'more' and 'less' option

Link to comment
Share on other sites