Dangerous! GAS

[FominArtem]

Dear developers and community members!

 

I want to suggest a topic for discussion about the introduction of the mechanics of gas interaction into the Game. I apologize in advance for my English - I translated this text, chemical terms with the help of an" assistant translator", since my wife no longer has the strength to translate my "nonsense".

Note: if you find an error in the name of a term, a spelling error, or an incorrectly constructed sentence that doesn't make sense, please indicate it and I will correct it.

 

The mechanics of gas interaction would be one of the unique features of the Game.

I can guess the complexity of implementing the proposed topic, but I still suggest trying to implement a simple mechanics of gas interaction on the model present in the Game (with the subsequent development of gas-gas, gas-liquid, gas-solid, liquid-liquid, liquid-mineral/metal).

Note: I am not a chemical scientist, and therefore I may be severely mistaken somewhere in my vision of this topic.

 

I ask for help from community members in expanding and adding to this topic.

I got the impression that there was an idea to implement the gas interaction process, but for some reason the developers did not do it. I will assume that this is due to the lower concentration limit of ignition of hydrogen in oxygen (4%). As a result, the problem with the electrolyzer, where hydrogen and oxygen are immediately in close proximity. I offer two solutions:

1. Change the design of the electrolyzer - oxygen is dispersed into the surrounding space, and hydrogen is discharged through a pipe to a separate prepared room or to a gas reservoir.

2. If you do not change the design of the electrolyzer, it is necessary to equip the electrolyzer room with autonomous automatic gas analyzer that can be mounted on any surface of the room. The autonomous automatic gas analyzer scans the space around it (the control field is 5x5 in size). If the autonomous automatic gas analyzer detects a dangerous ratio of any gas mixture (in our case, a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen), it sends an alarm sound and a command to stop the operation of the electrolyzer (or/and sends a command to open the mechanized airlock to artificially expand the enclosed space. This reduces the percentage of hydrogen to oxygen in the gas mixture).

Note: you can connect up to 6 autonomous automatic gas analyzers to the super computer using automation wires to create a common network for monitoring large spaces (but you need to be careful that the gas analyzers are located in the same room and the control fields of individual gas analyzers do not overlap, otherwise the information may be incorrect).

 

The concept of a simple gas interaction model (the concept proposed in this post will be updated as new information becomes available – I will highlight the changes in color):

 1. All closed spaces in which gases are analyzed are identified . In order not to load the processor too much, closed spaces are checked sequentially and periodically, for example, once per cycle (as often as possible if this does not affect the fps subsidence). Closed spaces are checked according to the following principle:

- the closed space is in the Player's view.

- Duplicant activity was detected in the closed space (for example, digging);

- in the closed space, there are sources of high temperatures (geysers, working equipment);

- sources of sparks are located in the closed space (for example, digging, switches);

- in the closed space, there are light sources (lamps, sun bugs).

Note: closed spaces include colony rooms enclosed by a ceiling, floor, and manual/mechanized airlock / cavity of the asteroid / a combination of colony rooms and cavity of the asteroid).

Note: different rooms of the colony (cavities) separated by pneumatic doors are considered to be one closed space.

 

2. The types of gases located in these closed spaces are identified.

 

3. The percentage of gases in pairs (separately for each closed room) is calculated – "gas №1 to gas №2", "gas №1 to gas №3", "gas №2 to gas №3".

Note: small separate "wandering gas accumulations" are summed together into one total amount of this gas in the closed space.

 

4. Only those gas mixtures for which the percentage has fallen into the "Explosive mixture" zone are monitored.

 

5. The conditions for the occurrence of an explosion of gas mixtures for which the percentage fell into the "Explosive mixture" zone are checked (gas mixture self-ignition temperature, sparks, light).

 

6. If all conditions are met – the gas mixture "explodes" (in fact, for gases, this is not an "explosion", but a rapid combustion. I will use the familiar for many people term "explosion").

Note: explosions can also occur outside the Player's view. Such explosions in the "fog of war" occur randomly (perhaps without analysis and calculation). They are designed to create more interesting and deep atmosphere of the Game (for example, a strong explosion that occurred far beyond the Player's visibility may cause an "asteroidquake", which in turn may partially cause some destruction of the Player's colony).

 

6.1. The explosion involves such a number of fractions of two gases that would interact with each other in reality – for example, in the reaction of hydrogen and oxygen (70% H, 30% O2), 0.85 kg of oxygen is "consumed" per 2 kg of hydrogen. For example: if there was 1 kg of hydrogen and 6 kg of oxygen in a closed space, then in the event of an explosion, 1 kg of hydrogen and 0.4 kg of oxygen will react. The remaining oxygen (5.6 kg) will cause damage to the Player's colony in the form of a shock wave (or it will "burn" in case of fire in a closed space).

 

6.2. The epicenter of the explosion:

Option 1 (choose which one is better?):

Any cell of the closed space randomly, but close to the border between the two gases and to the source that triggered the explosion.

Option 2 (choose which one is better?):

The epicenter is all those cells in which the shares of both gases were located, interacted with each other and "disappeared". For example: if there was 1 kg of hydrogen and 6 kg of oxygen in a closed space, then in the event of an explosion, the epicenter will be a cell with hydrogen and a cell from which 0.4 kg of oxygen "disappeared".

Note: in real life, it is easier for gases to dissolve into each other than to separate, as presented in the Game.

 

7. The damage is calculated. There are two types of damage: 1. Damage to the Duplicant's health, 2. Damage to walls and equipment.

(The SECTION IS in PROGRESS and will be updated)

You can take as a reference the explosion of a mixture of 2 kg of hydrogen (70%) and 0.85 kg of oxygen (30%) = 100 conventional units of damage, 100 conventional units of the explosion radius. All other explosions of gas mixtures should be linked to these indicators.

Note: the damage in the Game must be tested and a balance must be made between reality and the game assumption.

 

7.1. (the SECTION IS in PROGRESS and will be updated)

I would not like to make the damage to the Duplicant's health fatal:

- the Duplicant who is caught in the epicenter of the explosion gets from -50% to -90% health (depending on the mixture of gases that exploded);

- the Duplicant that was near the epicenter of the explosion gets from -30% to -70% health (depending on the mixture of gases that exploded).

- the Duplicant is relatively far from the epicenter of the explosion (from -10% to -40% health).

Note: damage is reduced if the Duplicant is dressed in a simple fireman's suit, elegant miner's suit, atmo suit, jet suit.

Note: the elegant miner's suit is equipped with a built-in gas analyzer (3x3 control field).

 

7.2. (the SECTION IS in PROGRESS and will be updated)

Damage to walls and equipment will depend on the distance to the epicenter of the explosion and the mixture of gases that exploded.

 

8. (the SECTION IS in PROGRESS and will be updated)

According to statistics, 30% of gas explosions end in a fire.

 

 

Approximations:

1. No pressure is considered;

2. One cell on the map in the Game = 1 m³ (it seems that this was intended by the developers)

3. In 1m³ (at 0^oC, 0.1 MPa): 0.09 kg H; 0.7 kg CH4; 1.3 kg O2; 3.2 kg Cl)

4. Properties of natural gas = properties of methane (CH4);

5. Properties of polluted oxygen (O2) = properties of air.

 

 

[FominArtem]

 

 

[babba]

Fire, ignition, combustion and explosions + fire fighting equipment would be great !

[pether]

So there are couple of things here:

Fire? yes, please!

Explosions? why not? probably when explosive things are exposed to fire

Chemical reactions, spontaneous combustion and random disasters? well... maybe not... or maybe, but it is not that simple to implement it well. Of course, this should be easy to write several lines of code like if(hydrogen and oxygen) then: explode(), but I thing it would be hard to make it as a fun feature...

Electrolyzer is not the only thing that stays in the way... In the game, oxygen and hydrogen mix together much more often than that... What is you made your way to the biome with hydrogen? Explosion? What if you deconstruct gas pipe? Explosion? What about hydrogen vent? Should it spawn fireworks instead? And what about drecko ranches? There are plenty of examples what could randomly explode if we implemened chemical reactions this way... And we are talking only about hydrogen. If we wanted to go full chemical, we must take into account EVERYTHING else. I am not a chemist, so I can only gues what mayhem that would cause... Water should turn every metal into rust, natural gas would explode every now and then, fire hazard could turn all oil into game disaster in one second. It would be terrible experience for a user and players would need to know every, and I mean EVERY hazzard if they don't wanted their base go bad in one moment because one dupe farted and the natural gas exploded... I can see all the forum threads "the worst bug: my base is randomly destroyed" and the answers "you probably had hydrogen leak... or your dupe farted"

I'm not saying that this cannot be done, but I don't see the way to make it fun and challenging instead of annoying... Also, devs would had to rebuild whole game to make it playable after this change, not only the electrolyzer.

I love how ONI allows to create things either with buildings or using game mechanics like temperature and state changes. Chemical reactions would be another step in that direction, but I fear this would destroy the whole game instead of making it fun...

To make it work, it should IMO happen only in safe, designated a priori condition... like maybe 3x3 background building named Omni Catalyst, allowing chemical reactions to happen only in its 3x3 area. for example, if in this area you had 8 tiles of hydrogen and one tile of oxygen, then it would cause the explosion. But this feels like cheating the laws of nature - if we accepted that hydrogen can explode, why wouldn't it do it all the time? "BeCaUsE tHe GaMe WoLd Be NoTfuN" doesn't sound like a good argument for making exceptions for the mother nature...

So, my advice - let's forget about complex chemistry and explosions, leave them to Hollywood and Doom, and maybe let's focus on the fire only. Let the wood burn. Let overloaded wires cause fire, and maybe some accidents with wood burner. Let it consume oxygen and produce CO2. Let it burn dupes and creatures and destroy plants. Put it down with water of CO2 (the second would cause the fires to self-extinguish after some time since they produce CO2). Let the ashes be used to fertilize the plants. On the topic - why not cremate dupes? Dead ones at least... Maybe let's add self-igniting plant and charmander-like creature to let the fire happen more often. But not explosions, not the chemistry, that would be too complex for the game and wouldn't be fun IMO...

Oh and about the fire - I like your screenshots, they are great for every idea you post

[FominArtem]

Thank you for your feedback, bro!

You can always click the button in the settings - "Disable gas interaction". New players will play without this setting.

About "drecko ranches": dreckos can grow their fur in chlorine for example.  The ranch can be located at the bottom of the colony in a CO2 atmosphere. The Duplicant works there in a atmo suit.

About "deconstruct gas pipe": the Duplicant by profession gas man to help you (burns oxygen in the pipe / makes gas small cylinders). Before deconstruct the pipe, it must be pumped to an empty state.

About "one dupe farted and the natural gas exploded": This hell is not for farting Duplicant  Although one fart will not be enough...

About "hydrogen vent": you can make a special gas pump (power 400 W), which immediately filters and pump the gas specified in the pump settings.

Lock rooms will be used everywhere. The lock rooms will be equipped with small pumps and sensors at the entrance and exit.

I am sure that almost everything can be foreseen. Moreover, there will be a system for protection and analysis of gas-hazardous mixtures.

The fact of the matter is that the system of interaction of gases will make you look at the Game in a new way. And that's good!

[FominArtem]

Аbout "you made your way to the biome with hydrogen? Explosion?": you can first build a lock room, and then break through the entrance to the biome with hydrogen. The Duplicant can wear a special unglamorous miner's suit with a built-in gas analyzer and covered with armor. Duplicant sooo slow to move and work in such ammunition.

You can make a special "Digger-Builder-Robot" (DBR Mk.1) that will be controlled remotely by the Duplicant...

About "the worst bug: my base is randomly destroyed": I think we overestimate the power of explosions. I'm currently trying to gather information about this. You can divide the base with manual/mechanized airlocks and the force of local explosions will destroy only the room where the explosion occurred.

About "Water should turn every metal into rust": as far as I know chlorine is more destructive in this.

About "let's focus on the fire only. Let the wood burn. Let overloaded wires cause fire...": gratuitous (random) fires? Fires for the sake of fires? I don't want that. There will be chaos.

In short, I can come up with content for two paid DLC.  

Eventually, the colony will look like a real colony built in harsh conditions far below the surface of an asteroid, rather than an amusement Park. And the Player will be able to get new gaming experience and knowledge of chemistry. 

P.S. Medical equipment is useful in the Game. Now it is not necessary at all for a neat game.

[pether]

On 11/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, FominArtem said:

You can always click the button in the settings - "Disable gas interaction".

Wouldn't call it a good DLC idea when it's main idea how to reduce its complexity is to avoid the DLC at all, even within the DLC itself

On 11/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, FominArtem said:

About "drecko ranches": dreckos can grow their fur in chlorine

Hydrogen is easier to create from water. Also, if not the dreckos, making some gases subject to explosion reduces number of possible creatures and their morphs (unless we want to have all of them using oxygen, but that is boring). Without exploding hydrogen you can always include new creatures and plants that require it, making it explode removes this option (or forces you to dive into disaster - neither is a good solution...)

On 11/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, FominArtem said:

About "hydrogen vent": you can make a special gas pump (power 400 W)

What if you don't have time or resources to make one? What if you don't have power line? What if it errupts just after being uncovered? Also, I don't think that adding new buildings only to deal with problems the DLC created would be a good design... It is like saying "here is a really bad idea, but it can be only a little bad if you mitigate it with those new buildings"... It feels like apple slowing down their iPhones so people bought new ones... I don't like it...

17 hours ago, FominArtem said:

Аbout "you made your way to the biome with hydrogen? Explosion?": you can first build a lock room, and then break through the entrance to the biome with hydrogen.

It fake slowing down the game when you must build entrances everywhere or die... Also, this doesnt work well with your fog-of-war idea, when you don't know whats behind the wall...

17 hours ago, FominArtem said:

About "the worst bug: my base is randomly destroyed": I think we overestimate the power of explosions.

If they are insignificant and change nothing - why bother with them?

17 hours ago, FominArtem said:

gratuitous (random) fires? Fires for the sake of fires? I don't want that. There will be chaos.

IMO if the fires came from one 1-2 sources there would be less chaos than in case of exploding hydrogen. But OK - the fires ideas were quick to be written down and might be improved, not saying they are the best possible ones.

17 hours ago, FominArtem said:

About "Water should turn every metal into rust": as far as I know chlorine is more destructive in this.

As I said, I am not a chemistry expert, maybe you are right, but here are two new problems:

1. Now we have to avoid NGas, Hydrogen AND Chlorine, making them all pretty much useless (or too risky to use). All designs to clear germy water with chlorine now are obsolete. The DLC doesn't expand your possibilities, it reduces them. It adds complexity, but little for you to play with - only new things to avoid.

2. I didn't know about chlorine. I'm pretty sure neither of us know about several interactions of some chemical elements that may cause our bases to explode or melt. It would be really bad user experience when random things would happen at random, because you are not aware that some elements may harm you. You say it would be good because people would learn new things, but I feel that users had to study master chemistry before sitting to the game. More time would they spend in tutorials to find answers why things broke this time than would they play the game. That wouldn't be fun the game wouldn't teach anything anybody, players would drop it... Some say that now ONI is 50% of time spent in the wiki searching for answers and that they don't like it... But now they search for info to design new contraptions, they create, not avoid. This DLC would force them to avoid. I don't feel it is fun...

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to discourage you or anyone from fire and explosions ideas... I like the idea of fire and I feel the game could somehow work to include it. Maybe the chemistry too.... But I don't feel that it would be possible at current game state, it would destroy more than it would bring to the game, or it would be done only partialy.... I hope some day klei figure it out how to include those systems, but it would be a really hard task and I don't think they will make this a priority anytime soon. If they decide to touch this subject - good luck to them, I'd love to see what they create  But until then - only mods for this if someone is brave enough to touch this...

[FominArtem]

 

20 hours ago, pether said:

Wouldn't call it a good DLC idea when it's main idea how to reduce its complexity is to avoid the DLC at all, even within the DLC itself

The joke is difficult for me because of the translation difficulties. Perhaps I understood its essence.

The essence of DLC is to add new mechanics. You can create new protective suits, buildings, and systems . And whether you see all the content or not will depend on your skill. (or did I not understand the joke?)

20 hours ago, pether said:

Hydrogen is easier to create from water. Also, if not the dreckos, making some gases subject to explosion reduces number of possible creatures and their morphs (unless we want to have all of them using oxygen, but that is boring). Without exploding hydrogen you can always include new creatures and plants that require it, making it explode removes this option (or forces you to dive into disaster - neither is a good solution...)

"dreckos can grow their fur in chlorine for example." It was a joke. Excuse me.

''Dreckos ranch at the bottom of the colony in an atmosphere of hydrogen and CO2". This is not a joke

Maybe I didn't understand something. Excuse me. We need to clarify the concept "dreckos ranch". What do you mean by that term?

20 hours ago, pether said:

What if you don't have time or resources to make one? What if you don't have power line? What if it errupts just after being uncovered? Also, I don't think that adding new buildings only to deal with problems the DLC created would be a good design... It is like saying "here is a really bad idea, but it can be only a little bad if you mitigate it with those new buildings"... It feels like apple slowing down their iPhones so people bought new ones... I don't like it...

Maybe I didn't understand something. Excuse me. We need to clarify the concept "hydrogen vent". What do you mean by that term?

1. You have to develop to produce resources and develop the power!  (The idea was quickly written down and can be improved).

2. The Duplicant by profession gas man to help you (he/she/x burns oxygen in the pump carefully / makes gas small cylinders).

3. I thought that the new mechanics in the Game meant adding new content, including new new buildings and structures.

20 hours ago, pether said:

It fake slowing down the game when you must build entrances everywhere or die... Also, this doesnt work well with your fog-of-war idea, when you don't know whats behind the wall...

1. Setting up "Fog of war" for maniacs and slow thoughtful game (on/off). The concept of "Fog of war" here (who will be interested):

 

2. For setting up "Fog of war": I can offer "Autonomous cavity scanner" (Mk.ACS-1b), miner's armor suit, special "Digger-Builder-Robot" (DBR Mk.1) for safe digging.

3. I may be wrong, but many people play this game slowly and try to live as many cycles as possible. And I think that by the 400-500 cycle they have already done everything and they are getting bored.

Building 1 airlock room will take 1-2 cycles at most. 5-10 airlock rooms for the entire colony will take 5-20 cycles.

20 hours ago, pether said:

If they are insignificant and change nothing - why bother with them?

Hmm...

1. The mechanics of gas interaction would be one of the unique features of the Game; 

2. This will add depth to the gameplay and enrich the atmosphere of the Game; 

3. A little chaos won't hurt this Game;

4. I want a "legitimate fire" in this Game;

5. I want medical equipment in my colony for a reason;

6. I want "Autonomous automatic gas analyzer", "Autonomous cavity scanner" (Mk.ACS-1b), miner's armor suit, special "Digger-Builder-Robot" (DBR Mk.1)...

...

20 hours ago, pether said:

As I said, I am not a chemistry expert, maybe you are right, but here are two new problems:

1. Now we have to avoid NGas, Hydrogen AND Chlorine, making them all pretty much useless (or too risky to use). All designs to clear germy water with chlorine now are obsolete. The DLC doesn't expand your possibilities, it reduces them. It adds complexity, but little for you to play with - only new things to avoid.

2. I didn't know about chlorine. I'm pretty sure neither of us know about several interactions of some chemical elements that may cause our bases to explode or melt. It would be really bad user experience when random things would happen at random, because you are not aware that some elements may harm you. You say it would be good because people would learn new things, but I feel that users had to study master chemistry before sitting to the game. More time would they spend in tutorials to find answers why things broke this time than would they play the game. That wouldn't be fun the game wouldn't teach anything anybody, players would drop it... Some say that now ONI is 50% of time spent in the wiki searching for answers and that they don't like it... But now they search for info to design new contraptions, they create, not avoid. This DLC would force them to avoid. I don't feel it is fun...

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to discourage you or anyone from fire and explosions ideas... I like the idea of fire and I feel the game could somehow work to include it. Maybe the chemistry too.... But I don't feel that it would be possible at current game state, it would destroy more than it would bring to the game, or it would be done only partialy.... I hope some day klei figure it out how to include those systems, but it would be a really hard task and I don't think they will make this a priority anytime soon. If they decide to touch this subject - good luck to them, I'd love to see what they create  But until then - only mods for this if someone is brave enough to touch this...

Let's solve problems as they come in. You're being overly dramatic. You can always modify the balance with patches in the new mechanics. But the mechanics must be there for this.

Thank you so much for your criticism, bro!

[pether]

16 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

The joke is difficult for me because of the translation difficulties

The main idea for the dlc is to add explosions. We fear that they may game-breaking for some people, so we add button to turn them off. So now, what changes in my game? I paid for the DLC, but the design specifies that it's maybe better not to use it's features. That would feel bad...

 

20 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

We need to clarify the concept "dreckos ranch". What do you mean by that term?

Some designs include using hydrogen (or other gasses that the DLC changes into deadly risk). Dreckos are one of exaples (AFAIR they used hydrogen atmosphere), but there are many other cases. If the DLC turned many gases into weapon of mass destruction, those designs would no longer be valid (or would be very risky). In the result, the DLC would not expand your possibilities in the game, it would reduce them. I don't think that that would be good marketing design - pay to lose content.

 

24 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

"hydrogen vent". What do you mean by that term?

I mean volcano-like thing that spawns hydrogen. There are similar vents that spawn NGas. If a player had a bad luck to discover it while it is errupting, it would cause massive explosion, destruction, and frustration.

 

27 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

1. The mechanics of gas interaction would be one of the unique features of the Game;

unique - yes. fun to play with - maybe. I see plenty of risk.

 

28 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

2. This will add depth to the gameplay and enrich the atmosphere of the Game

I'd say it would add complexity more than depth

 

29 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

3. A little chaos won't hurt this Game;

agreed, but I fear this would cause too much chaos

 

29 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

4. I want a "legitimate fire" in this Game;

+1 to that

29 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

5. I want medical equipment in my colony for a reason;

OMG BIG +1 to that

30 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

6. I want "Autonomous automatic gas analyzer", "Autonomous scanner cavity" (Mk.ASC-1b), miner's armor suit, special "Digger-Builder-Robot" (DBR Mk.1)...

More equipment will always be part of new DLCs and packs, don't need to explode everything for them.

31 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

Let's solve problems as they come in.

The idea for the DLC is to teach people to carefully plan ahead  But to be serious - sure, some problems are hard to predict and must be dealt with once they appear. Some are easier to predict and we should prepare for them. I could see several issues with explosions and chemical reactions. I believe we should ask ourselves - would they make the game more fun? How can we make it more fun? I don't see clear answers to those questions and therefore, as much as I'd love some fire and danger in my games - I can see why KLEI decided to start with radioactive DLC first and I would understand if they didn't want to touch the subject. If they would - that would mean they found the answers and I'd happy to see what they are

37 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

You're being overly dramatic.

Well... maybe I am

37 minutes ago, FominArtem said:

Thank you so much for your criticism, bro!

I hope you don't see it as some kind of personal war or crusade. I just try to analyze the explosions idea (had been thinking about it for some time, it is not the first case of it on this forum) and ensure it is not only dangerous and pretty (as explosions usually are) but also fun to play. And the more I think of it, the most risks I see... However, if KLEI decided to make a DLC out of it, I would buy it on the release day for sure

[FominArtem]

What war, my friend?! In a dispute, truth is born. I am very happy for our discussion! Help me fill out the sign at the top (red cells) 

3 hours ago, pether said:

The main idea for the dlc is to add explosions. We fear that they may game-breaking for some people, so we add button to turn them off. So now, what changes in my game? I paid for the DLC, but the design specifies that it's maybe better not to use it's features. That would feel bad...

A new player may not buy DLC for the game immediately. He will do this when he has fully learned the game and wants something else.

3 hours ago, pether said:

Some designs include using hydrogen (or other gasses that the DLC changes into deadly risk). Dreckos are one of exaples (AFAIR they used hydrogen atmosphere), but there are many other cases. If the DLC turned many gases into weapon of mass destruction, those designs would no longer be valid (or would be very risky). In the result, the DLC would not expand your possibilities in the game, it would reduce them. I don't think that that would be good marketing design - pay to lose content.

Ok. I understood about the "ranch" correctly. I don't see a problem. The solution I suggested should work - building a ranch at the bottom of the colony in a CO2 atmosphere. We pump hydrogen there and launch drecko there (I didn't find any information about the explosive reaction of hydrogen and СО2. I hope I never find it).

3 hours ago, pether said:

I mean volcano-like thing that spawns hydrogen. There are similar vents that spawn NGas. If a player had a bad luck to discover it while it is errupting, it would cause massive explosion, destruction, and frustration.

I made a mistake here - I didn't understand what you were talking about.

I don't see a problem here. There may not be an explosion at all in this situation.

Even if the explosion takes place - minus one person / robot (if the Duplicant was without a protective suit). You can periodically block the corridors with doors. The explosion will be local then. The oxygen will burn out and the fire will die down itself. This is actually not even an explosion, but an ignition. I found interesting information that hydrogen in oxygen can ignite at a hydrogen content of 4% to 19% and of 59% to 95%. The fire will be hot (3000'C). But it's not an explosion. A mixture of hydrogen and oxygen can explode (detonate) when the hydrogen content in the mixture with oxygen is from 19% to 59%. So there will be ignitions. Explosions won't be so frequent.

Or are we talking about a game with the "fog of war" setting enabled?

I am not a chemist, and therefore I may be very wrong in my vision of this topic.

 

[pether]

22 hours ago, FominArtem said:

What war, my friend?! In a dispute, truth is born. I am very happy for our discussion! Help me fill out the sign at the top (red cells)

We live in XXI century, people now are very sensitive and many think that if one disagrees with them it means they hate them. I respect you, you have many good ideas, lots of great artworks and I don't want you to feel attacked or offended because I disagree on one of the ideas.

I have troubles zooming in the table, please send it to me in PM and I will answer you there in case I would be able to fill something in. But please remember, I am not a chemist

22 hours ago, FominArtem said:

A new player may not buy DLC for the game immediately. He will do this when he has fully learned the game and wants something else.

New player wouldn't know if the game would be easy for them or not. I'd prefer some kind of scalable slider of difficulty for that kind of DLC, but things either explode or not... Not sure how could players learn on easier explosions before increasing the difficulty of the game. (btw - I'd love to see the same slider on radioactiveness and lethality of the germs, so players could choose if they wanted extreme conditions or easy tutorial mode)

22 hours ago, FominArtem said:

This is actually not even an explosion, but an ignition.

Watched too many movies, I see BIG BOOM now whenever I can

 

23 hours ago, FominArtem said:

Or are we talking about a game with the "fog of war" setting enabled?

No, I realized it was stupid of me to criticize one of your ideas only because you had another, totally different one. I decided to drop fog-of-war topic. Sorry for that one

[babba]

Explosions/Suffocation:

An explosion could make a dupe unconscious for 1 minute, if Klei wants to keep the game more cute. As dupes can die already in the game, I would be fine with dupe death due to fire suffocation, severe burns and explosion death.

I believe that fire, ignition, combustion, flammability, explosions and firefighting equipment ( sprinklers, fire-engine, firefighters, foam etc. ) would add a lot to the game. I find its a major element currently missing in the game and would be a superb DLC2 called "Firefighters". The DLC would add advanced and sophisticated fire combat equipment, the basic fire system being part of the base game for everyone.

DLC`s can be a way to keep developers further working on a game title in the long term - Which give us, the gamers, more great game system content and a wonderful ONi future.

[goboking]

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on mixing gasses exploding, but I'm all for fires.  In fact, I've been advocating for fires to be added to the game for years.

PS - I dig the firefighting Meep picture.

[babba]

@goboking

Hello old friend It is funny that we have been posting similar ideas over the years, I didn`t even see your past postings on similar great fire stuff ! Keep the flow of good ideas up. May the dupes be always with you !

Kerbin, I also miss Kerbin so much I did a big ONi break and now since 2 weeks I`m having a rocket steam megablast !!! Really hoping they also give us attachable remote detonators...