Brainstorming About Maxwell & Wicker Updates

[cantbeatdaboss]

Maybe instead of kiting enemies shadows could dash through enemies (think forge maxwell but the shadows stick daround after they dash through an enemies), assuming klei wants to go with the shadows dodging attacks instead of tanking approach.  I'd imagine they would have I-frames on their dash so that they don't always die dashing into an aoe enemy, but could still die to bosses with a big range if they are in the startup animation or something when the boss attacks.  Obviously this wouldnt be enough for a full fledged rework but I think it could be a nice touch.

[LonelySkeleton]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes.. because then they would never die, and other players couldn’t kill them in PvP. But I do suppose that other players can’t kill Wurts Army when she Arms them with gear (yes you can actually do that..) 

Thats What Maxwells shadows are missing and I think Klei knows it- Maxwell is supposed to be the former puppet master.. and yet all he Knows how to summon are a few weak clones of himself to mine resources and fight for him- He is essentially in my opinion... a Less Interesting version of Wurt.

That is a slight exaggeration because Obviously Maxwell is better at gathering resources than a Merm Army, Doesn’t change the fact that a former king of the shadows should have more shadow constructs... Possibly even extending to being able to craft and equip his shadow fighters with “Shadow Armor” so you know they aren’t “invincible...” but they ARE Harder to kill with the extra effort put into upgrading them.

Ahem, Abigail & Ectoherbology potions  

Another thing he needs is to be able to access his book without having to drop it on the ground, like an actual animation of standing and holding it open in his hands..

But outside of that- I don’t really know what to do to make him have fun interesting Team based perks like Abigails cool new petal Bestowment buff and Wendy’s Sanity giving Sisturn.

I agree with all this but in mid-late game Wurt merms are way better resource gatherers than Maxwell it's not even a competition. The only time maxwell is better is early game. Not to mention as Wurt you don't even have to fight tree guards that spawn where as with Maxwell you have to or else they kill your shadows fast.Try bringing an army or merms to a forest sometime they blow Maxwell and his shadows out of the water. Wurt is undeniably the best resource gatherer in the game.

[Scrimbles]

I hate the fact that Max is just an afk character, and his shadows were split into specific tasks.

Hes overly efficient, to the point of kinda ruining Woodie and trivializing resource collection. People tend to get "powerful" confused with "well designed".

Classic Max's shadows could chop, mine, or fight, as long as Max was actively telling them to, he didnt have to craft specific workers and then just stand around while the gsme played itself. If you were done with the shadows you could recycle them for fights.

The main issue was their limited time alive, and the fact that they couldnt be manually removed.

No one crafts duelists because they cost too much for how useful they are, and they can ONLY be used for fights.

 

Wickerbottom has the issue of not really having a compelling core design, she has powerful books but she doenst really have any synergy with them, any character could read books and function the same way.

I've got ideas for being able to research items and mobs for a variety of bonuses, I think that could be a more compelling direction to take Wicker.

[Mysterious box]

16 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I'd add to Wickerbottom new books, specially some that can be actively used during battle and target smaller areas, sort of like it was at the forge.
I'd also change the behavior of "the end is nigh" book:

  Hide contents

Making her lightnings a special type of lightning, that would stun enemies affected for a couple of seconds and does not make enemies get on fire (the effect should not stack, as in, you can't keep deerclops stunned permanently by spam reading, but you can probably stun a lot of hounds for 2 seconds).

So casting it on fights would actually be useful, by creating a lightning field that will stun most enemies affected for at least 2 seconds.

I'd also remove the excessive flashing effect it currently has, to prevent seizures and general eye sore.

More utility books that buff everyone around her would also be a neat thing to have: 

  Hide contents

 

EG:

• A book that upon being read, casts a 20% damage reflection on any playable allies and NPC allies the team has within an area, and lasts X time.
• A book that casts invisibility on all the players in a certain area for X time: players can move, eat and heal while invisible, but if they attack, craft something, place a structure, activate any building, or pick up something, they end the effect. Basically a timeout spell to heal safely during fights, or a way to sneak pass by enemies you don't want to face (yet). Lore wise it could be that it temporally phases the players into the shadow realm, so even though physical creatures can't see them, shadow creatures will.
• A book that casts a heavy rain in a very small area for about a minute or two (so a cartoonie single-cloud rain sort of thing. A boost for electric based damage, or to quickly end a fire in a small place)
• A book that makes all affected allies receive more health from any healing source, for X time.
• Etc.

 

 

I'd also make her spoiled foods penalty a lot stronger, like yellow food would give 0 positive stats, and red spoiled food will give all negative stats. Lower her HP to 125 (like on the forge) and give her a 10% extra damage from attacks received penalty (so she's less suited to facetank like any other younger character could).
So basically you'd be better solving most of your problems through your brain and magic.

As for Maxwell, besides improving the AI and control over minions, I think the duelists should draw any aggro they create towards Maxwell, and they should most likely add DPS to maxwell, not tank for him (but they also shouldn't despawn out of a bee sneeze like they do now)

I'd also give new tiers to his summons. 

Basic Codex umbra: same as it works now
Improved Codex:  made at at shadow manipulator with a basic codex, adds new shadows, like a shadow that picks up items of the ground, a shadow that holds a lantern or a torch for you, a new duelist that has a boomerang, improved behavior and strength of  the basic duelists (more like the forge), etc.
Ancient Codex: requires an improved codex to craft, can be made at a fully repaired pseudoscience, lets Maxwell cast shadow magic spells at the cost of sanity and blood (hp), and with cooldown times:

  Reveal hidden contents

EG:

• Casting shadow hands in an area that will trap enemies and keep them stuck in place for X time. It works sort of like a landmine, where each hand will capture one enemy and then despawn.
• Casting a dakness shield dome in an area around maxwell. Maxwell can't move while he channels it, but allies can come in and out. The shield prevents enemies and shadow creatures from entering the area, and ranged attacks from hitting anyone inside. Maxwell drains sanity to keep it up, and once he reaches low sanity, the shield breaks and can't be casted again for X time. This could be useful in team games to cast a safe zone, or to allow your shadow minions to attack for you for a little bit, while jellybeans restore you.
• Summon a bunch of terrorbeaks to run and attack any enemies around. They will attack once or twice, dealing a bunch of damage and then despawn. This is mostly just a ranged attack, at the cost of HP (for Maxwell). If no enemies are around at the time of summoning, they may just roam around Maxwell passively for X time until they either find a target to attack, or despawn over time.

As a bonus, Maxwell is always seen with night armor and dark sword, he even starts with these items on DS. I think he should get the perk that Walter got for a little while by accident: Being immune (or at least, more resistant) to the shadow magic sanity drain of dark sword and night armor.
This would stack with his regular sanity perk, which would remain the same.

I like this aside from the buff idea buffing is Warly's area of expertise 

[Mike23Ua]

Every rework so far, Wendy, Woodie, Willow, Winona, Warly as well as all of Klei’s most recent DLC Characters Wurt, Walter- They all have one thing in common.

They all have been given new “Kit” Items that they need to lug around in their inventory more often than normal.

For Wendy this is Abigails Flower, Ashes, Flower Petals, Mourning Glory & Ectoherbology Potions.

For Willow this is Sewing Kits (Or Silk & Hound teeth to make kits with) Beard Hair, Beefalo Wool, Bernie, her lighter & Sanity Manipulating items.

Woodie- Grass, Bird Seeds, Logs, Monster Meat, and the occasional transformation idol when he needs them as well as Hunger restoring foods for after Transformations.

Winona- Rocks, Nitre, Gems, Trusty Tape.

Warly- new portable cooking gear.

Wurt- Pet fish, kelp, DiY Royal Tapestry stuff, Reeds,Tentacle Spots, Rot.

Walter- Slingshot, Various Ammo Types for Said Slingshot, Pinetree Pioneer Hat.

They all have that in common- And it’s a trend amongst the reworks that’ I fully expect to carry across the entire roster of playable characters (because if every other character now has to carry around 3-5 extra items Wolfgang shouldn’t be able to simply just stuff his face and punch with the force of a Rhinoceros)
 

Even WORTOX could use an update to put him in-line with the others mentioned above.. maybe he can have healing souls, corrupt souls for damage boost, and hunger gain souls, each soul type having to be crafted, and each type taking up its own inventory slot and having a different color scheme (corrupt being dark purple, Hunger filling being green, healing still red) no longer having a massive stack of 20 as a one stop bag of tricks

But in a open world sandbox Survival game, one of the most important aspects of that survival game should be knowing how to properly micro-mange your limited inventory space.

And that’s why every character that doesn’t have 3-4 extra items that are a core part of the stuff they’ll normally be carrying around throughout playtime as them are in dire need of a much needed rework.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Every rework so far, Wendy, Woodie, Willow, Winona, Warly as well as all of Klei’s most recent DLC Characters Wurt, Walter- They all have one thing in common.

They all have been given new “Kit” Items that they need to lug around in their inventory more often than normal.

<SNIP>

These are good observations, my suggestions actually address this issue.

Currently Maxwell has a unique craft (the codex umbra) which on DST works like a portable crafting station, you toss on the ground, summon the shadow minions, then grab it again. In reality his codex will remain 90% of the time in a chest at base, so he can summon his workers whenever he needs to, and rarely the codex will be taken to the working field (EG: a large forest, a petrified forest, etc). What I suggest is so the codex also can cast direct shadow spells, or summons a lot more utility minions, so carrying it becomes an important part of an every day Maxwell, to be able to resolve the varying situations he can find in different ways. Perhaps it can even be implemented something like how Wendy can unsummon abigail back into the flower, so that the shadows, after spending their original summoning cost, if they are not dead, they can be "stored" in the codex to be used again for a minimum cost (or no cost at all) and then you only need to spend the fuel+weapon or fuel+tool, if it died.
 

A similar thing goes with Wickerbottom, Wicker books are mostly crafted and used on site, but we rarely see a wickerbotom carrying books "just in case" as there is no need to. Books are often created and dropped in a chest, or used right away. The only book that can currently be sort of "taken with you" is "the sleepytime stories", which more often than not will not be used in battle (I use it to get rid of late game hound waves, though). I'd like more books that could work as an EDC (every day carry) for a wicker, depending on your available materials, and personal playstyle.
EG: a more subtle, stealthy approach? carry the invisibility book. A more fighter approach? carry the (reworked) end is nigh, to stun enemies as you fight. A more tactic approach? carry the rain book and a morning star.
Etc....