Gas Heat Transfer seems completely broken ?

[mathmanican]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:03 PM, TripleM999 said:

I would say, it was borked before, now it is borked another way. 

Well, back to the borked heat diffusion issue (non-flaking related).  Since they completely removed all heat equalizing, we now have to deal with heat dispersion using bridges/tempshift plate, statues, etc. Probably not the best. 

Alternatives?

• Why not bring back the exact same mechanic that we used to have, with one change.  Just put a clamp on how much equalizing can happen.  The lower mass tile cannot overshot the temperature of the higher mass tile.  Generally, this will help restore rapid gas heat transfer. It will also prevent a cold low mass tile from skyrocketing in temperature (which seems to be what the temp-swap bug was).  

Would the above be enough to rectify the damage @Lifegrow's topic brought up?  It basically returns ONI to the prepatch state (for heat transfer) and deletes the temp-swap bug. 

This would do nothing for the flaking issue. To me, it seems like flaking goes through a recursive loop in a single tick. It seems that flaking liquid (partial evaporation) from above, in general, is messed up. I have not yet tried flaking sideways, as done in the videos, but that could be fun to watch a blob of liquid shoot sideways across the entire screen. 

[TripleM999]

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

Well, back to the borked heat diffusion issue (non-flaking related).  Since they completely removed all heat equalizing, we now have to deal with heat dispersion using bridges/tempshift plate, statues, etc. Probably not the best. 

Alternatives?

• Why not bring back the exact same mechanic that we used to have, with one change.  Just put a clamp on how much equalizing can happen.  The lower mass tile cannot overshot the temperature of the higher mass tile.  Generally, this will help restore rapid gas heat transfer. It will also prevent a cold low mass tile from skyrocketing in temperature (which seems to be what the temp-swap bug was).  

Would the above be enough to rectify the damage @Lifegrow's topic brought up?  It basically returns ONI to the prepatch state (for heat transfer) and deletes the temp-swap bug. 

This would do nothing for the flaking issue. To me, it seems like flaking goes through a recursive loop in a single tick. It seems that flaking liquid (partial evaporation) from above, in general, is messed up. I have not yet tried flaking sideways, as done in the videos, but that could be fun to watch a blob of liquid shoot sideways across the entire screen. 

I never advocated to fully remove the instant heat equalizing (although it had its own quirks like reducing the heavy tile to lower temperatures than the light tile had before, or massive heat movements), the temperature swap had to be gone.

I would adjust the mechanic this way, either:

1. insta equalizing like before, and ONLY if it would drive one of the temperatures out of the starting interval, do the post-patch TILE swap (instead of the temp swap, as pre-patch), but maybe unlike pre-patch for both under- or overcutting the interval

or

2. insta equalizing until both tile have the same temperature, not the same heat (imho the better solution with far less heat movement, unless gas2gas-conduction is higher)

or

3. make gas2gas conduction higher

[mathmanican]

2 hours ago, TripleM999 said:

I never advocated to fully remove the instant heat equalizing

I don't think any of us advocated for this, but it looks like it is the direction the devs chose. Hopefully this discussion, staying on the front page of the forums for several days, will spark a discussion internally at Klei that will help them come up with something even better than everyone has suggested.

[Nebbie]

On 7/23/2020 at 1:43 PM, TripleM999 said:

...

3. make gas2gas conduction higher

This is probably the sane option. Gases in real life mix temperature like crazy because they can actually mix. ONI's one-element-per-tile rule may be fundamental to it working as a game, but it also introduces some problems, and thermal conductivity issues are a biggie. It's pretty ridiculous how you can have a hot and cold biome next to each other with a two-tile opening and still have a massive temperature difference between the two after hundreds of cycles.
As a bonus, this would help with cooling SPOM output oxygen being a good idea, and provide a little boost to thermoregulators (and boy do they need a boost).