Savescumming should not change card draw, attack sequence, draft, etc

[sknot]

Hello! Love this game, great work and can't wait to see what the future holds.

I have already submitted feedback in-game concerning this subject but I wanted to write a post as well as I feel it is very important.

(Savescumming is quitting and resuming the game to start at the beginning of a mission, for instance right before you get killed, after misclicking, to try different options and see what they do, etc...)

This is not about whether savescumming is good or bad. In my opinion, it is perfectly fine in a single player game and it prevents frustration from obvious misplays and misclicks (drafting the wrong card...). The problem I have is that savescumming in Griftlands completely changes the game. In Slay the Spire (and other roguelikes e.g. Dead Cells), if you restart a fight or event everything will be exactly the same: card draw order, card draft, enemy attack sequence, etc... So you cannot count on luck thinking "maybe this time i'll get a stronger turn 1" and restart until that happens. If you absolutely cannot win the first time, retrying the fight 50 times will not change anything. However if you made mistakes and the fight can actually be won, then savescumming can actually help you learn and avoid future mistakes.

Unfortunately in Griftlands, savescumming makes everything change. You get different card drafts, different loot, different turns and card draw, different enemy attack sequences... In my opinion this is very bad because it encourages trying again and again to get what you want. Savescumming in griftlands does not help you get better, it only gives you the possibility of counting on luck to get the best card reward or fight sequence when things don't go your way.

Please change this so that quitting/resuming does not change anything

[Starlogy]

I haven't played Griftlands yet, as I'm waiting for the Steam release, but wouldn't that make the game more interesting if it didn't play the same way every time?

[minespatch]

17 minutes ago, Starlogy said:

I haven't played Griftlands yet, as I'm waiting for the Steam release, but wouldn't that make the game more interesting if it didn't play the same way every time?

Klei is the king of RNG.

[Psychomaniac]

oh, since you mentioned it, i'll start Savescumming from now on, man! this game keep giving me the wrong card for the type of deck i am building. I totally forgot about Savescumming, thank!
P/s: Common It's a single player game, add a refresh button when ever we have to choose cards so we don't have to Savescumming or give atleast 1 out of 3, and  3 out 5 cards from the type of the deck current in-play.

[pacovf]

I mean, it’s a roguelike. You can finish a run in 3h, less if you die. The randomness of the card draft is what makes it more replayable.

[The Real Mike]

I like my "savescumming" the way it is. You can just not do it, but don't take away my second chances at a fight.

[sknot]

On 19/08/2019 at 7:44 AM, The Real Mike said:

I like my "savescumming" the way it is. You can just not do it, but don't take away my second chances at a fight.

But that second chance will be entirely luck. You're not getting a second chance at playing better (which I think is good, see my initial post), you're getting infinite chances of getting the right amount of luck to win a fight that you shouldn't win.

One time I was negotiating with some guy who had like 50 resolve and I had 10. At some point during the negotiation, i saw that they inserted an argument to themselves that removes half of their resolve when destroyed. It didn't do much damage because it was already late into the fight. I just restarted the negotiation until this argument was summoned very early (it is random) in the fight, thereby removing 25 resolve and winning a negotiation purely because of luck.

I don't think this is good game design. And saying "just don't do it" is not an argument regarding game design: players are always gonna cheat if they can. It's up to the developers to make sure cheating will not lessen the game experience and weaken the actual objectives (getting better, not getting lucky), which I think it currently does.

[TheCoolestFool]

i think everything should be set in stone too. The only thing i like about save scumming is i can use it to fight the drusk instead of the shroog because im kinda sick of the shroog fight.