FPS is all that matters now

[Lutzkhie]

We need more fps, end game is not very enjoyable if your playing on a powerpoint presentation (if you know what I mean)

[SharraShimada]

Nope, we need performance. FPS is secondary in such a game. While performance will raise FPS, higher FPS will not necessary mean higher performance. Its absolutely no use, if your overlay tells you "hey you can run this game with 500000000000 FPS, big congratulations", when the game itself lags behind everything when it comes to dupe assignment, ressource processing or heat calculations. 

[Lutzkhie]

I see performance and fps almost the same.

I dont get it, If I got 60 fps constant where does lag comes from then? We get lag when fps drops

6 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

higher FPS will not necessary mean higher performance

 

7 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

when the game itself lags behind

 

[Coolthulhu]

5 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

when the game itself lags behind everything when it comes to dupe assignment

This x1000

The game currently cheats around low performance by dropping the number of AI calculations before dropping FPS. This kills late game ranches, heavily slows down digging large swathes of muck, causes dupes to wait for suffocation alert before they realize there's no air.

I'd take "honest" 15 FPS over 60 FPS with game skipping enough calculations that it's obvious.

[SharraShimada]

2 hours ago, Lutzkhie said:

I see performance and fps almost the same.

I dont get it, If I got 60 fps constant where does lag comes from then? We get lag when fps drops

 

Because you equal performance = FPS. Sorry, but thats wrong. FPS is just the screen refresh rate. If nothing changes, 1FPS is as good as 1000FPS. For example: You got a big red dot. If this is not changing at all, the FPS doesnt matter at all. There is nothing changed since the last refresh. 

Not the same dot, changing its color 500 times a second. Your Monitor works with 60FPS. So you see 60 changes, but miss 440 changes. 

No the opposite: Your monitor can update 60 times a a second, but the system changing the color of the dot is too slow, and can only achieve 20 times per second. 

Your FPS are still 60, but the system working is at 20 changes. So whats the benefit? There are only 20 changes made in the last second, while you could see 40 more, that did never happen.

And thats what i´m talking about. Its no use, if your screen refreshes with 60FPS, but the engine is in overload-mode, and wont keep up with that. Thats why i say, we need performance, not FPS. Its not the same.

 

[Tekky]

The game Factorio distinguishes between game state Updates Per Second (UPS) and graphics Frames Per Second (FPS). The UPS is only about handling calculations of the actual simulation, whereas FPS is only about rendering the current viewport of the simulation onto the screen.

In Factorio, UPS can be higher than FPS, but FPS can never be higher than UPS, because it would not make sense to render the viewport again, if it hasn't changed since the last frame.

It may be meaningful for ONI to also introduce this distinction between UPS and FPS.

[Cairath]

High FPS and the game behind on logic updates (low performance)  = you can watch your dupe stand doing nothing at all for a long time.... but very smoothly  I agree, the game would benefit greatly from decoupling logic updates from rendering updates. They've done it with pathing already and it was a great improvement. 

[Coolthulhu]

1 hour ago, Tekky said:

It may be meaningful for ONI to also introduce this distinction between UPS and FPS.

The problem is, ONI has FPS, UPS and "AIPS".

Most game logic runs at consistent rate not dependent on FPS. AI logic runs separately, which trades consistency and AI performance for some cheated FPS/UPS.

If you've ever seen dupe clap 5 times before a hatch took a hint, a killed critter walk around for 10 seconds before dying, a trussed vole burrow itself into the ground and become unretrievable without digging, you know how does skipping AI updates look like. There was a time when freshly born pufts could drown before escaping water because of this (this was "solved" by buffing drown time instead of fixing the AI).

[SharraShimada]

A real bad example, locking the FPS to the UPS would be Skyrim or Fallout 4, before the patches. On higher FPS (say 100), the game was smooth as hell, but you cant pick any lock anymore, because this was tied to the FPS, and was wayyyyyyyyyyyy²³ to fast afterwards.