Game Becomes More Frustrating Past Prestige 2

[LETSCHAT]

Great work on this game, everything I've wanted.  I feel like past Prestige 2, player's choice takes more of a backseat to developer design. 

 

The early game is actually more fun than the later playthroughs.  Everything feels really balanced and nuanced at the start.  However, as the game becomes more challenging, with harder bosses and weaker allies, the need to craft a strong and competitive deck becomes more and more important and also frustrating when you realize how few choices you have to maintain it.  Or how those choices are negated by the game design. 

For example, the more times you beat the game, the more you dilute the deck pool with cards that have more diverse synergies that don't help the build you're already committed to past Day 3.  By Day 3, you're regularly facing 3 star enemies in combat and negotiation and if your deck isn't coherent you'll have problems.  The synergies exist in the game, but if I'm committed to building a DEFENSE-COUNTER/DIPLOMACY deck and only mulligan newly unlocked COMBO, BLEED, AMBUSH, VULNERABILITY, DOMINANCE, etc. cards--I fundamentally can't make the deck I need to win, and that awareness that I can't makes the game feel more dependent on random number generation than skillful deckbuilding.  I cannot level up cards fast enough to compensate for the difficulty curve in the game.  What's worse is that when you're offered cards that are literally UNPLAYABLE and just suck up a slot--or the problem is exacerbated by getting cards you absolutely don't want from killing people--meaning that you have to pigeon hole the character you mean to be into a few select archetypes just to win the game.  If you're playing as a persuasive but deadly fem-fatale, you can only get away with it at Presitge 0 because once you're given unplayable cards like Killer in a deck that's committed to diplomacy, your run is over.  Likewise, if you embrace DOMINANCE but mulligan INFLUENCE cards over and over again, your run is over.    The only way to maintain deck strength at higher prestiges is *specifically* to be a pacifist, drink buying, sweet-talking Tank and pray that the RNG is in your favor.  Player choice is limited at higher levels due to this design.

Here are some suggestions to enable more player choice in-game:

1. Allow us to toggle newly unlocked starting packs on/off.  The ideal here would be to get a headstart in experimenting with the deck we want to build/character that we're playing as before we start the game.  If we want to focus on being Abrupt and using Bleed tactics, we can toggle off starting packs that don't synergize well with that strat and then enjoy the game on our terms.  If we want to play the game with all the packs on because we think that's the true intentions of the developers--**we can do that too**--but let's leave it altogether to the players to decide.  Player's choice is good because it's good to have choices. 

2.  Let us pay 10 shills to mulligan.  You can currently cheese the game by resetting the game to mulligan a new set of cards.  I feel like this is sort of game breaking but likewise crucial if you want to have a competitive deck by the midgame.  It'd be nice if this was disabled and instead replaced with an option mid game to re-roll new cards at some monetary cost.  

3.  Let us remove more than one card at a time but at increasing cost--**in one visit** with a vendor.  Right now, you can only remove on card per day.  While on the first playthrough, the battle/negotiation decks are balanced, but the time you thrown in 18 new cards into the deck pool, the decks feel very loose and diluted, and it's hard to maintain any semblance of a strategy.  Being able to remove cards is great, but only being able to take out one at a time feels stiffling, it feels as if the developer stepped in and made a choice  over the player's intention--especially if we're sitting on cash we can't spend anywhere else.  For players skilled enough to get the cash we should have the choice of spending it how we need to.  And if we roll into the market with 600 shills, why be locked out at only being able to spend 50 shills to remove one card.  Make the first card 50, the next 100, 150, etc. and leave it to the player's choice to determine when enough is enough.  Again, player's choice should be the imperative. 

4.  Don't mulligan Unplayable cards.  When you offered a set of three cards and two of them read "UNPLAYABLE" it's no longer a choice.  Why do these even show up if you can't play them?  This just seems broken.

5.    Sometimes when we right click to skip a discussion, we get a helpful yellow box that quickly summarizes the conversation.  Sometimes you don't.  After repeat playthroughs, I've come to rely on these summaries just to know "Hey, am I allowed to capture/kill this guy for a bonus, etc.?  Do my allies have to stay alive yes/no?"  

6.  Currently, when you beat the game, your avatar disappears from the save slot--giving the impression that the game deleted your progress.

7.  Our starting deck always stays the same, it would be nice to be able to modify it before the start of the game.  I'd like to swap out basic cards I already know I won't need/want in favor of some of the cards toggle into the game/from past playthroughs for some trade off in challenge (-5 max resolve/health).  

8.  Give us 10 shills for skipping adding a card on day one, 20 shills for day two, 30 day three and so on...

9.  Let us meet a vendor on the road that will buy a random card for us--or duplicate a card.  More choices to get rid of bad cards--or get into a fight if we make the vendor/Spree/Merchant upset by turning down their deal.

10. The punishment of getting cards you can't get rid of like Unstable and Killer for rightfully defending yourself is too extreme.  Instead, reward Unstable/Killer cards to people that use Dominance tactics over and over again *****AND***** use the Execute card.   If I'm using Diplomacy and killing in competent and explicit self defense/to fulfill a contract, that doesn't make my character unstable/shaky and shouldn't saddle me with permanent cards that don't synergize with my deck in the mid-late game.  Let the qualifier to getting those cards (unstable/shakey/killer) be associated for the times when some is committed to the Dominance/Execution playstyle where they're actually using both the Dominance *and* Execution cards--and not just the execution cards alone.  

11.  Diplomacy needs more discard options.  "Discard a card to draw a card/gain influence 2" etc.

12.  Let us accrue a bounty as we make more people hate us instead of capping our resolve/max health.  We run the risk of encountering the bounty hunter/Admirality as we travel--and the higher the bountry, the harder the fight will be.  Gamplay Logic doesn't correlate as to why someone not liking me reduces my max health.  Perhaps it correlates to stress?  But  I know if someone doesn't like me and they put out a bounty on me, then I'll have a potential fight on my hands at any time--and that can be stress that I feel as a player--rather than just some number.  Also, richer/more established characters can place higher bounties on me.  Right now, if the junkyard worker and Rich Merchant characters dislike me, it's equally no skin off my back. 

 

[Bigfoot]

4 hours ago, LETSCHAT said:

Don't mulligan Unplayable cards.  When you offered a set of three cards and two of them read "UNPLAYABLE" it's no longer a choice.  Why do these even show up if you can't play them?  This just seems broken.

I think these are EVOKE cards? These cards are triggered by the evoke requirements instead of playing them out of your hand.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Griver84]

Personally I kinda like the evoke cards. There's one in the negotiation deck I can't think of the name off the top of my head. But basically you play three hostility cards in a turn and you get to draw a free card. Combo this with Sal's Instincts (or its upgraded version) and this combo becomes even easier. Plus if I recall correctly these evoke cards activate EVEN if they're in your deck and you meet the condition (just not your discard pile). So for me they're rarely in my actual hand unless I happen to draw them on a turn.

As for being dead cards in your hand. I know there's cards in the diplomatic decks that cause you to exhaust another card to play it (making these card's perfect targets if you want to thin your deck during a diplomacy fight). 

Idk maybe its my years playing card games but I enjoy the mechanic and the difficulty of the game. Especially knowing what combos I want to get for my deck and hoping I can maximize my chances of finding those cards. That's part of the strategy of the game, can I play in a way to maximize my chances to get certain cards (even with the RNG of it). Kinda like Slay the Spire, some runs are just stacked against you.

[Shibang]

SPOILERS

 

Making it to prestige 6, I would say prestige 2 is the biggest jump as the day 3 boss fight is pretty hard if you do not have two of the following: a trained pet, an ally (from the friend wants something to do event), the bouncer at Grog (convinced or paid) to help, or the bouncer you get if you end the quarantine (much better than the guard). The day 4 boss is much easier, likely because you are usually sure to have 1-2 allies (Oolo snail and handler against Nadan; 2 Spree Guys [always at least one] against Oolo). 

I actually have not been going into any single archetype, which might lead to easier deck building. I find a mixed approach is pretty effective, and the several opportunities to remove cards (at least one per night, most of the time at least one per day) can make it easy to correct the deck later. Getting multiple good cards from different archetypes seems more effective than getting a just alright deck of a common theme. I will note combo does seem to be the hardest to mix with, and my only success was having the graft that gives combo (generally, I avoid the combo cards as they seem under-tuned compared to the damage cards and the multiple play cards in particular). I also probably choose not to add cards to my deck unless I feel they are pretty good more than most people, and am generally waiting for something noticeable awesome or will just buy key pieces from the night vendors. 

[Alraiis]

On 7/14/2019 at 7:40 AM, LETSCHAT said:

3.  Let us remove more than one card at a time but at increasing cost--**in one visit** with a vendor.  Right now, you can only remove on card per day.  While on the first playthrough, the battle/negotiation decks are balanced, but the time you thrown in 18 new cards into the deck pool, the decks feel very loose and diluted, and it's hard to maintain any semblance of a strategy.  Being able to remove cards is great, but only being able to take out one at a time feels stiffling, it feels as if the developer stepped in and made a choice  over the player's intention--especially if we're sitting on cash we can't spend anywhere else.  For players skilled enough to get the cash we should have the choice of spending it how we need to.  And if we roll into the market with 600 shills, why be locked out at only being able to spend 50 shills to remove one card.  Make the first card 50, the next 100, 150, etc. and leave it to the player's choice to determine when enough is enough.  Again, player's choice should be the imperative. 

You had a lot of great feedback and ideas! I just want to add a quick comment on diluted decks. You should be using the Skip option and refusing additional cards from quest/battle rewards frequently, in my opinion, unless one of the three options is a quality card that is directly benefiting your chosen strategy. Take the 10 shills and pass. You'll have more money and leaner decks. (I just got the game recently, so apologies if this was a recently-added option and I'm replying to an out-of-date post.)

[pacovf]

 

12 hours ago, Alraiis said:

You had a lot of great feedback and ideas! I just want to add a quick comment on diluted decks. You should be using the Skip option and refusing additional cards from quest/battle rewards frequently, in my opinion, unless one of the three options is a quality card that is directly benefiting your chosen strategy. Take the 10 shills and pass. You'll have more money and leaner decks. (I just got the game recently, so apologies if this was a recently-added option and I'm replying to an out-of-date post.)

The base cards may also give you the option to be upgraded to a version that self-destroys. I don't know the odds, but anecdotally it seems to be around 33-50%. So that's another way to trim your deck if you really want to.

Trimming your deck a lot does mean you can't drink / eat as often, so it's a riskier approach to deck building.

[LETSCHAT]

Just chalked up another playthrough.  While I like the game, there's still some annoying problems:

 

1. I keep being offered cards that are unplayable (not Evoke or anything, just unplayable).  This effectively reduces my options to playable cards.  Please disable unplayable cards from popping up as a choice.

2. I played without using the execution card/killing anyone, yet still got the "you're gaining a violent reputation" card KNOWN THUG despite the fact that it was the shop owner who joined my fight that killed an enemy.  I don't understand this from a in-game logic situation--shouldn't the shop owner be the thug?  Why am I force fed cards for killing when I haven't killed anyone?  And if they died at the end of the fight--how did I get that reputation?  Just seems like something that should be fleshed out or modified a bit.  Please consider giving those cards to players who only use Execution.  As in, use Execution 2 times and you'll get one of the cards, 4x, 6x, whatever.  That way you can at least engineer a deck to be a total hardass and not just randomly bloat your deck. 

3.  I ran into a weird bug with a card that let my play a single cost negotiation card from my discard pile.  It ended up emptying my discard pile and letting me play all those cards at 0 cost. 

4. At day 1 I was faced with a four-star enemy that got one power each time it got damage.  That just seems broken.  That's not even rouge-play, that's just a wall. 

[Bigfoot]

6 hours ago, LETSCHAT said:

1. I keep being offered cards that are unplayable (not Evoke or anything, just unplayable).  This effectively reduces my options to playable cards.  Please disable unplayable cards from popping up as a choice.

Can you send a screenshot or give an example of an unplayable card please? All that are in the draft should have some use. 

[Psychomaniac]

The game need to add more way to get Key-card, like when build your deck base on a key-card and that key-card just never show up.

Ex:

A influence Negotiation deck that missing Rapid Fire, Scorched Earth.

A Combo Combat deck that missing the card that let you transform 1 combo into 2 defence and regain all combo point back next turn, and the card that deal 1 damage per combo point if you dont get that 2 key-card before the Dock fight your combo deck is pretty much dead.

suggestions:

1/ Atleast 1 out of 3 cards available to choose when you start a Quest is belong to the type of deck you build, and later 2 out of 3. (like combo deck got atleast 1 combo type card out of three random card, later 2 out of 3). 

2/ Night vendor have Refresh button (cost shill, and unlimited) and atleast 3 out 5 card is belong to the type of deck you are building. The same with card removal.

P/s: It's a single player card game, you dont need that much randomness, i guess.

On 20/7/2019 at 8:01 PM, LETSCHAT said:

1. I keep being offered cards that are unplayable (not Evoke or anything, just unplayable).  This effectively reduces my options to playable cards.  Please disable unplayable cards from popping up as a choice.

Yeah, about the unplayable card, i kinda like the Solid Point card, when you upgrade it to deal 3 damage it kinda strong, i build a deck that have not thing but that Solid Point card and the card that let you draw 4 + a gear that let you draw 3, + 1 action, i end every negotiation in turn 1

[mister_eugene]

Or may be game can ask build type at start of day, allowing RNG be less RNG each day...

[TheCoolestFool]

Maybe if we had a reward from an event that could let you look at a large selection of cards and choose one of them. Could help. Almost all of the time i play mixed decks with a 50%/25%/25% split i dont know how the game would decide what im playing.