Endgame with full release?

[Junksteel]

I'm a bit worried about this 8000 cycle thing. Anyone know of someone that had this problem again after the fix?

[Saturnus]

25 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

I'm a bit worried about this 8000 cycle thing. Anyone know of someone that had this problem again after the fix?

Well, I did when I ran it on my workstation, and yes the issue comes back but the more immediate concern is the 20-30 minutes autosave at the start of each turn makes it pretty much impossible to play any way at that point. 

[Oozinator]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Well, I did when I ran it on my workstation, and yes the issue comes back but the more immediate concern is the 20-30 minutes autosave at the start of each turn makes it pretty much impossible to play any way at that point. 

I always thought how much time i spent (for example) in game lobbys.
When i had 30k battles in World of tanks and i have everytime to wait 30 sec then that's brutal, when calculated.
ONI is dynamic at this save/load/start part.
When i play 1000 Cycles and i have to wait 20 secs in average, the resulat is brutal too ^^

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Oozinator said:

I always thought how much time i spent (for example) in game lobbys.
When i had 30k battles in World of tanks and i have everytime to wait 30 sec then that's brutal, when calculated.
ONI is dynamic at this save/load/start part.
When i play 1000 Cycles and i have to wait 20 secs in average, the resulat is brutal too ^^

Interesting. I think only got like 20K battles in WoT.

I don't understand why there's no option to disable autosaves. It's really annoying.

[Junksteel]

I didn't dedicated that amount of time in a single save yet but I really planned to. This is by far the biggest concern I have about the game so far.

This is almost a deal breaker.for me. If I had experienced that like you did I think I would never start over again knowing the issue is there.

I know it doesn't affect everyone, but it can be psychologically devastating for one to experience it.
 

[Oozinator]

Just now, Saturnus said:

I don't understand why there's no option to disable autosaves.

That sounds freaking sci-fi!
*dream* something like an adjustable slider, like each 5 / 10 / 50 / disabled sounds very much sci-fi.
Not 100% sure if humans ever capable of doing this?
I mean we are in the state of "shaped apes" in theory it should not take much longer then 2k years to invent something..
Perhaps the auto banana peel machine would be smarter to do first.

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

I didn't dedicated that amount of time in a single save yet but I really planned to. This is by far the biggest concern I have about the game so far.

This is almost a deal breaker.for me. If I had experienced that like you did I think I would never start over again knowing the issue is there.

I know it doesn't affect everyone, but it can be psychologically devastating for one to experience it.

I didn't really experience it that much. I ran it on my workstation I just dedicated 2 threads (a single core as it wasn't multit-hreaded at the time)) to it and let it run in the background and checked in every few days. In the end most of the time was just waiting for autosave to finish.

Maybe they'll fix the issue eventually.

[RonEmpire]

there definitely needs to be some form of  "You won! Endgame screen"  - for those who just want to retired or quit playing.  Rather than just quit because your CPU can't handle 8000 cycles anymore.   That's just a cop out design flaw.   It feels unnatural.

I mean look at it this way.  The game is essentially creating a memory leak  - ticking time bomb over time to the point where your computer just stops running because it doesn't know how to handle a run away memory flood.

 

 

And as I pointed out before in another thread.   The game  retains ALL of the cycle reports from day 1- in memory.  Its bloating over time-  saving them everyday unnecessarily for no reason.   It should just be saving the reports each day (once) FOR THAT day only appending to a log file that you can load up only when you read the reports cycling through them.    It shouldn't be just sitting in memory and redundantly repeatedly write the same info every cycle.

[DreamApart]

4 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

there definitely needs to be some form of  "You won! Endgame screen"  - for those who just want to retired or quit playing.  Rather than just quit because your CPU can't handle 8000 cycles anymore.  

Yeah, so far I always quit a run because my CPU can't handle it anymore.

For me it's 500-700 cycles and it's very laggy I began to lose patience.

On 2019/3/24 at 7:08 AM, Squeegee said:

Can you clarify what you mean on all of this, the game literally creates matter to keep it sustainable, it's fairly easy now to make a fully sustainable base, it's just a matter of patience.

The problem is that the threats comes only from consumption. The less dupes you have, the easier it is to be sustainable.

Last time I tried to challenge myself by raising 30 dupes, and yes game was definitely harder, but I felt no benefits compare to when I have only 12 dupes.

Yes, the more dupes did bring more productivity, but the the productivity was used on settling their own troubles.

There is not fair an opponent or objective to measure that my colony is getting stronger.

 

I bet this has been talked about many times.

Another problem here is no matter how many technologies added or designed found out, there are always the latest ones, and then they are always too late to be useful.

[RonEmpire]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 9:40 PM, nakomaru said:

I've got a couple saves past 2k cycles and they vary greatly in fps and save/load time. One is high fps and fairly quick to save.

Conclusion: a 200kb spreadsheet with cycle report data is not the cause.

I beg to differ.  Have you looked at the save files folder where there is a progressive increase in file size.   It's not just 200kb.   It's compounding and growing massively.   Compare a cycle 1 save file with a cycle 4000.   There's more being stored than the simple report you are seeing.    There is something else being stored at the end of every cycle.   Somebody made a mod that blocks the storing of reports and has proven and shown a huge increase in loading the game reducing the lag on autosaves.

I save pretty regularly manually.   And each of my save files- I have a cycle number in them.  You can sort by file date even.  And then you will see the increasing file size.   (my ONI save file takes up over 4gb).

Cycle 14 save file:   620kb

Cycle 3433 savefile:    14,659kb

(If its just a spreadsheet, why does loading the game take forever and getting worst per cycle.)

Conclusion:  The longer you play, the bigger the problem gets  (depending on your machine spec).   Especially if you manually save frequently, the save files will eat up your disk space.

[RonEmpire]

25 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Sure does. However, comparing cycle 1 with cycle 4000 doesn't prove that the cause is the report.

Like I said,  there is somebody on the forum here that has made a MOD that tackles the reports being saved problem and has demonstrated that there is an improvement to saving and loading time.     It is "one" of the problems.   And it can be proven to be a problem.     It's not all of the problems of the endgame.  Since pathfinding calculations is no doubt another problem.

I'm sure there are other causes to the late game problem.   But, my point is the game shouldn't be saving and loading reports on every save/load access.     If you program the game, to only load  when its needed and save only what is new - that can reduce a lot of performance problems.   I'm not saying  that's ALL of the performance problems.  But lets start with what we can prove.  (its proven from experiment by the MOD disabling reports storage). 


Example:
Whenever you save, you save ONLY the change.   End of Cycle 1. Save that report.   End of Cycle 2,  save only cycle 2 related because  cycle 1 has already passed, and you ALREADY saved it the previous cycle.     By cycle 4000,  you save only cycle 4000.  You don't need to save  cycle 1-4000 again.   That's just compounding the problem.  Do we need to save all that previous cycles that has already passed and they were already saved.
Whenever you load the game,   Do you need to load cycle reports?   How many players hit the cycle report button as soon as they load the game?   Even if you want to load cycle reports, maybe load the last 10 cycles on load so you have a buffer.  Whenever somebody views the cycle report,  (only on request) should you start loading reports to flip through.   Do you need to load cycle 1 report when you're at cycle 4000.  And having to flip back 3000 cycles?  And you still can't even access cycle 1 within 5minutes of sitting there flipping.   I mean just flipping previous over and over until you reach cycle 1  is going to probably take you a long time to do.   All this is just absolutely unnecessary, and can be cut out of the entire save/load process and sitting in your computers memory- where your computer (if it has low memory), has to go through virtual memory swaps. 

 

Let me frame it this way for you to understand.   Your memory space is filling up overtime. It is ALWAYS growing.  This is fact.  When you start running out of memory space it will need disk space to do virtual memory swaps.    When  your disk space is ALWAYS growing, what is going to happen to your game performance?  What happens when you run out of diskspace, (especially SSD that reaches over 70-80%- this is also a proven fact that any solid state harddrive that is over 70% reduces performance overtime.)

 

[RonEmpire]

4 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Yes, a mod could prove that. How about a link?

You can  search for the discussion on this topic.   I don't have a link to the MOD, but the guy had coded it up and pointed out that I was right about what I had said about the reports causing problems.    I'd have to search through my history of posts.   (just my own personal choice, I avoid using MODS for games)

[RonEmpire]

5 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Okay I got it. A guy said so.

Sigh.   Listen that was a long time ago before MK2 came out.  Because,  the new MK2 depends on at least 1 or 2 days cycle report to create the dupe efficiency alerts  on their travel times etc.

I'm not even sure if that MOD works anymore because it was killing reports logging.

You're basically saying that I went off the beliefs of some guy who 'said so'.  When he tested the mod out.    I didn't need a guy to say so, to know what I'm saying is True.  Because its not rocket science what is happening here.


Let me understand what you're saying by your comment.
So you don't believe that trimming OLD reports from memory and trimming compounding reports will improve the game performance?

17 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Yes, a mod could prove that. How about a link?

Here you go:

test it out yourself.

Here's the discussion on Memory Leaks:

 

[RonEmpire]

The mod is not disabling autosave.  His mod  disables reports completely.     But this was at the time, before MK2 came out.   where MK2 seems to depend on some reports of within the last few cycles to provide pathfinding alerts.   

Late game speed is going to vary based on the pathfinding and how much automation you have running.   It's not just the reports obviously.   But reports contribute to it.     Let's say if you have 2 games that are say   4000 cycles.  And they both have variable frame rates.     It doesn't discount what I'm saying because baseline, the reports on both cycles impact the game.   But the additional variable would come from pathfinding as well.      But they're both lagging compared to beyond cycle 1 right? 

The reports do become a huge problem  by cycle 9000,  and will be increasingly so.   Anyways- this discussion on late game performance is already being discussed in another thread- by a bunch of other people and have been in discussion before.  So I think its best that we just continue the discussion there if you have anything further to contribute on late game performance.


We can all at least agree that the current game gets worst towards the endgame as far as performance goes.
I think performance also varies for everybody because of the different hardware specs we all have.

(We can debate on the cause of the performance elsewhere since there are already many threads about it, from memory hog to pathfinding issues. to save file loading and autosaving issues). 


The OP of the thread here is suggesting for an "Endgame" upon release.
 

[Chaoticlusts]

Given the plot in the game so far I'd be amazed if there wasn't some form of endgame even if all it involved was unlocking the final piece of the story itself, although with that "and what they can do about it" quote it certainly sounds like more.

Something like Rimworld's endgame would work well. It's entirely optional if you want to do it and most people don't but it's nice that it's there.  I've logged hundreds of hours in Rimworld over the years and I've never built that damn ship... I've started games where I really meant too but end up getting distracted :P.  Hell ONI's endgame it could be exactly like Rimworld's, basically building a ship and buggering off.  It'd definitely give you a use for the endgame materials if you needed absurd amounts of liquid hydrogen (or even, given the plot covers *spoilers obviously*

Spoiler

time travel, you could make a time machine or just stasis chambers made of exotic materials)

*edit* actually come to think of it.. given what I mentioned in the spoilers above *more spoilers obviously :P*

Spoiler

my money is on the end goal being a time machine to unscrew whatever screw up detonated the planet in the first place (or am I imagining that last bit?).  Time travel just seems way to central to the plot we've seen to not come up again somehow.  I'd also put money on the final scene being dupes popping out of the machine and running straight into a bunch of dinosaurs because they screwed it up

 

[RonEmpire]

My guess is that its possible the last star map destination is out of reach unless you have the high end   technology and liquid hydrogen and such. Reaching the furthest planet - or someway to break through the forcefield.   You get a hint of this in one of the shorts.