Wires overloading

[TheEvilMango]

Hello so I've recently came back from a break and am still having problems with wire. I have a wire running from my coal gen to research stations and than to multiple transformers after the transformers are batterys or machines. The main circuit only shows that it should about 300 top but it jumps to over 1000 randomly and doesn't say why. How can I fix this I'm tired of blowing fuses on the main line. 

[Glassyfo]

6 minutes ago, TheEvilMango said:

Hello so I've recently came back from a break and am still having problems with wire. I have a wire running from my coal gen to research stations and than to multiple transformers after the transformers are batterys or machines. The main circuit only shows that it should about 300 top but it jumps to over 1000 randomly and doesn't say why. How can I fix this I'm tired of blowing fuses on the main line. 

Sometimes transformers count as users when charging.

[SamLogan]

2 hours ago, TheEvilMango said:

Hello so I've recently came back from a break and am still having problems with wire. I have a wire running from my coal gen to research stations and than to multiple transformers after the transformers are batterys or machines. The main circuit only shows that it should about 300 top but it jumps to over 1000 randomly and doesn't say why. How can I fix this I'm tired of blowing fuses on the main line. 

As bleeter6 said Power Transformer count by why you use multiple power transformer in earyl game. It's only usefull when you have a huge power source.

To avoid overload, just check the circuit status of the cable and be sure tu never have more than 1000 watts simultaneously.

[badgamer123]

i got a strange thing that small transformer charging small transformer overload on a 2k wire....

[Gurgel]

The thing is, a transformer draws up to its rated output from its input. That means if you feed 2 small transformers from a wire, that wire gets loaded up to 2000W. The only thing the transformer does is make sure there is not more than 1000w (small transformer) draw on the input wire from itself, but that is per transformer connected to the input wire. 

Up to a few days ago, having never fed a transformer with small wires, I though it would protect the input wire. It does not. It merely limits the power draw to its rating. 

[KittenIsAGeek]

Transformers, like batteries, hold a charge.  Also, like batteries, that charge can be replaced faster than it is used.  

So lets say you're running a circuit on a small transformer that is continually powering 960 watts of consumers.  There are four ticks in a second (if I'm remembering correctly) so for the first tick, the 960 watts are moved from the transformer to the load.  In the next tick, 960 watts are moved from the high side source to the transformer.  No problems so far, no wires burned out.

However, lets say your load is intermittent.  It starts up again on the 4th tick of the second.  960 watts sent to the load.  Now its a new second and the transformer is "empty," so power is moved into the transformer for the first tick.  The second tick moves that power to the load.  The third tick moves power back into the transformer.  So you've moved 1920 watts of power along the high-side line over the course of 3 ticks, putting your load for that second well above the 1k of normal wire.  So something takes damage.  On the 'down' side of the transformer, you're still sending only 960 watts per second, but on the 'high' side, you've pulled almost 2k -- because of how transformers and batteries work.

 

To look at it another way: A generator produces at a specific rate.  An unmodified coal generator always produces 600 watts per second while it is running.  If some of that 600 watts isn't used during a given second, it is counted as wasted power and is lost.  If a load can potentially draw more than 600 watts per second, some of the load will fail.  Basically a generator says, "Hey! Here's some power!" while the consumers say, "Oh! I can use some of that."  Connected straight to a load, a single coal generator will never burn out a wire even if the load potentially exceeds 1kw.  The flip side is that a load will always use its full power for any single tick that it is operating, provided that power is available.  Additionally if it has drawn power in a previous tick, it will not draw power again until the next full second of operation.  So in the case of a continually running gas pump, every 4 ticks it will draw a total of 240w of power during only ONE of those ticks.  Batteries, however, have no such limitations.  They can send or receive power based on their available capacity and the availability of power on the network during ANY tick.  The internals of a transformer are simply a very small battery. 

This is where some of the problems with power regulation occur.  The "low" side of a transformer isn't a source like the generator.  It only "sends" power when that power is needed, buffered by a very small battery.  Basically instead of the transformer saying, "Here's some power," like a generator does, the transformer waits for a consumer to say, "I need power, can you give me some?"  This means that you can set up a build where you're alternating 960 and 1040 watts of power every other second, but your rate average over time is still 1kw/s.  This also means that two transformers connected together in series (low to high) can break a regular wire.  The internal 'battery' of each transformer can charge during ANY tick, regardless of whether or not power has been sent or received already during the second that tick occurred.  Unlike a battery, which doesn't count as a consumer or a source, the 'high' side of a transformer always counts as a consumer, meaning that keeping the internal 1000 joules charged will always be part of the power calculations.

 

I hope that helps.

[TheEvilMango]

Thank u. U explained it very well. Now what some steps I can take to prevent it? Is having multiple gens running separate grids the way to do it or run the gens to transformers than to separate grids? Or am I over thinking it.

[KittenIsAGeek]

You're over-thinking it for the most part.  I usually set up a generator room connected with heavi-watt wire.  Off that line, I connect transformers that run smaller wires to various tasks.  If I need power in a distant part of my base, I either set up a generator close by, or I use a transformer and run cheap wire.  In places where I only need power rarely, I'll set up a couple of batteries and hamster wheels or a coal generator on a smart battery.

So, I use  a mixture of methods.  But for the most part, most of my power is generated on a single heavi-watt wire network and all my consumers are connected to it by transformers using smaller wires.

[biopon]

25 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

So you've moved 1920 watts of power along the high-side line over the course of 3 ticks, putting your load for that second well above the 1k of normal wire.  So something takes damage.

This is only true if there's more than 1000w generated (or stored in batteries) on that 1KW wire. If you have <= 1000w generated it's safe to use a normal wire and a small transformer and connect it to a conductive or heavy network. Likewise, if you have <= 2000w generated (like a steam turbine for example), you can use two small transformers or a large transformer, and safely move that power from conductive to heavy.

[KittenIsAGeek]

Just now, biopon said:

This is only true if there's more than 1000w generated (or stored in batteries) on that 1KW wire. If you have <= 1000w generated it's safe to use a normal wire and a small transformer and connect it to a conductive or heavy network. Likewise, if you have <= 2000w generated (like a steam turbine for example), you can use two small transformers or a large transformer, and safely move that power from conductive to heavy.

Not completely. If you have any sort of power 'saving' on that network (batteries, transformers, etc) then its possible to break the wire even if your generated power is below the limits.

[biopon]

1 minute ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

If you have any sort of power 'saving' on that network

I did say "generated or stored in batteries"

 

[KittenIsAGeek]

So if you go: Coal generator --> transformer --> small wire --> transformer you can burn out the small wire if things sync up just right.

Which was my understanding of the original post's layout.