Power grid layout

[GoHereDoThis]

Trying to wrap my head around this tutorial

but posting again here in case things have changed with the latest patches

 

Basically, my base so far can run off the 2kW wire for 90% of the time but when using other machines, it can sometimes push usage past this limit.  What's the best way of isolating or separating these occasional devices from the rest of my grid without having to route a totally separate circuit for them?  Cut them off via a power transformer?  Or does running the wire through a battery cut off one side's usage from the other side (doesn't appear to be the case)?  I'm not sure I understand the point of the batteries plus power switch in the tutorial above.

[Lawnmower Man]

The most important point to remember, IMO, is that for the purposes of grid calculations, a Power Shutoff is a means to physically rewire your electrical grid.  Once a switch is open, the game engine considers the wires on each side to be completely disconnected.

Now, the idea with "battery switching" is that batteries are treated specially in-game.  Neither their charging nor their draw is used to decide whether a circuit is overloaded.  This means that you can charge batteries at ridiculously high rates over any kind of wire.  You got 10 steam turbines on a Heavi-Watt and want to charge a Jumbo Battery over a 1 kW wire in 2 s?  No problem.  Put a transformer between the Heavi-Watt and the Wire, and watch 20 kW flow through your skinny copper.  But put an AquaTuner on the battery side, and you'll burn out the skinny wire for sure.

If you want to run the cheapest wire all over your base, you just need to make sure that power is always *transferred* to *batteries only*.  If you want uninterrupted power on the consumer side, this means that you need one battery to draw on and another to receive remote charge.  Hence, the switching schemes.  The PSes will isolate one battery onto the power circuit to charge and the other onto the consumer circuit to draw.  Then, automation will swap the roles of each battery.  Voila!  Unlimited power over the skimpiest wires.

The caveat is that consumers always force an overload calculation, so anything that draws more than 1 kW all by itself *must* have better wires if you wish to avoid overload.

[GoHereDoThis]

Thanks for that explanation.  If I understand correctly, this is somewhat of an exploit, correct?  And something that could be made useless if the devs decide to patch it out? 

I'd just like to have a different solution.  For example, if my base had 3 consumer locations, each using 400W and all are wired with a regular 1kW wire.  I got a generator -> smart battery -> power transformer -> 1kW wire.  The wire then splits into three, each going to one location.  Will putting a battery on each location, prior to the consumers, still protect my wires if all three locations start using max power?  Or will I have to put another power transformer at at least 1 location?

[Lawnmower Man]

3 hours ago, GoHereDoThis said:

Thanks for that explanation.  If I understand correctly, this is somewhat of an exploit, correct?  And something that could be made useless if the devs decide to patch it out? 

I'd just like to have a different solution.  For example, if my base had 3 consumer locations, each using 400W and all are wired with a regular 1kW wire.  I got a generator -> smart battery -> power transformer -> 1kW wire.  The wire then splits into three, each going to one location.  Will putting a battery on each location, prior to the consumers, still protect my wires if all three locations start using max power?  Or will I have to put another power transformer at at least 1 location?

Follow the wires.  If you can draw a continuous wire to enough consumers to overload the wire, it doesn't matter what batteries or anything else you have on the circuit, you are at risk of overload.  The circuits don't have a discrete "flow" like the fluids.  Power arrives instantaneously at every part of the circuit (if you want to be pedantic, you could say that the speed of light in ONI is faster than the map scale / tick duration).  Batteries don't "screen" consumers on either side of them.

In the case you describe, if all 3 consumers can be active simultaneously, then you either need to use automation to prevent that, upgrade your wires, or separate the circuits with a xformer, etc.

[KittenIsAGeek]

Personally, there's a couple of tricks I like to use.  If I have a lot of items on small wires that are rarely used, I'll feed the circuit with a small transformer and no battery.  This means that if, somehow, more consumers turn on than the wire could handle, it won't burn out.  Or if I have conductive wires, I'll use two small transformers in parallel.

For other circuits, I'll make sure that my consumers don't have a combined draw greater than the wire's capacity.  For example, lets say that you have three transit tube access points on one circuit with regular wire.    If you have a small transformer feeding the circuit, then you'll never burn your wire out even though your combined draw is 2880 watts.  If you have conductive wire, then using two transformers will allow the transit tubes to be used more frequently and still without burnout.  However, if your tubes are used frequently, then you'll eventually reach the point where they can't get enough power and you have to wait.

Note that this only works if there is no battery on the consumer side.  Once you add a battery, the consumers can draw as much power as they need.  

[RonEmpire]

my trick for keeping things within the 2k limit is setting up automated clocks.

For instance, water pump - you can hook up a reservoir, and use that as a buffer to store water.  So the power usage time is contained for say half of the day.  And you know there won't be any power spike from the water pump.    The other half of the day,  I find something similar like a gas pump that pumps oxygen into atomsuit or whatever- or maybe it pumps it to the gas generators.   Set the clock to be the other half of the day, with a gas tank as a buffer, so when the generators aren't accepting any more gas, your pump will continue to fill up the gas tank (as a buffer).   This way  anything that needs the liquid or the gas,  can draw from the  buffer/back up tanks  until the pumps come back on line again.

Just think of the liquid and gas tanks as "batteries".
 

Other examples,  clock sweepers,  I basically split up the time they're allowed to kick in so I know its taking up only 120w at any given time rather than a spike of all of them at the same time.

anything that needs to run full time you can factor that into the 2k limit.  anything shared, you can subtract the difference and only add the shared watt usage at the given time.  

 

Another example is the water sieve for your bathroom, you don't need to run it full time right?  Add in liquid tanks  to store the backed up polluted water or clean water  going in and out of your bathroom system.   And have the water sieve process the water on a schedule.  This can cut your power consumption and share that 240w with something else.  

  

[GoHereDoThis]

So a battery does not "cut" a power line but a transformer does?  Anything else that allows stuff to be connected but still "isolated"?

My current setup is 2 coal generators to two smart batteries to a big transformer, and then out through regular 1kW wire to consumers with no batteries on the consumer side... but I still get the odd damaged wire every now and again.... and as I write this, I realize my mistake.  I'm complaining about broken wires from a 2kW transformer!  LOL!

So that issue is sorted!  What is the best way to "isolate" certain parts of my base?  (consumer side) wire -> battery -> transformer -> consumers or wire -> transformer -> battery -> consumers?  Ideally, I'd like to be able to keep a central power generator location.

[Lawnmower Man]

15 minutes ago, GoHereDoThis said:

So a battery does not "cut" a power line but a transformer does?  Anything else that allows stuff to be connected but still "isolated"?

My current setup is 2 coal generators to two smart batteries to a big transformer, and then out through regular 1kW wire to consumers with no batteries on the consumer side... but I still get the odd damaged wire every now and again.... and as I write this, I realize my mistake.  I'm complaining about broken wires from a 2kW transformer!  LOL!

So that issue is sorted!  What is the best way to "isolate" certain parts of my base?  (consumer side) wire -> battery -> transformer -> consumers or wire -> transformer -> battery -> consumers?  Ideally, I'd like to be able to keep a central power generator location.

Well, there are no 2 kW xformers that I know of.  There's a 1 kW and a 4 kW.  Batteries don't isolate anything because they only have one wire socket, so all wires connected to the battery are on the same circuit.  A xformer has 2 sockets, and the game tells you how they are isolated, which is why you can form 2 circuits with it.  Same with the PS.

I think folks who choose not to use the battery switching technique either have many long runs of Conductive Wire or run a backbone of Heavi* wire to the major portions of their map and run xformers where they need to consume power.  If you use central power, you should start out by only putting batteries on the "high" side (the Heavi* side where the generators are).  Later, when you understand electricity better, you can decide if a battery near a consumer makes sense.

[GoHereDoThis]

Well, that's another D'UH!! moment for me!  I assumed since the power wires came in 1kW and 2kW flavors, that the small and large transformer did as well!  So can 2 power transformers feed into a conductive wire setup to safely supply 2kW but limit it to 2kW?

How do you use a large power transformer then?  It's too big for a conductive wire, but too small for a heavi conductive wire.  So like the smaller power transformer, hook up 5 large PTs into one heavi conductive wire?

Why would a battery on the consumer side not make sense?  I mean with consideration to your post earlier regarding batteries, in this context, I'm talking about isolating the consumer side and putting a battery on the consumer side.  So the setup will be more like (generator side) -> (power delivery, so just wires, no consumers) -> (consumer side, isolated, with batteries).

[Lawnmower Man]

51 minutes ago, GoHereDoThis said:

Well, that's another D'UH!! moment for me!  I assumed since the power wires came in 1kW and 2kW flavors, that the small and large transformer did as well!  So can 2 power transformers feed into a conductive wire setup to safely supply 2kW but limit it to 2kW?

How do you use a large power transformer then?  It's too big for a conductive wire, but too small for a heavi conductive wire.  So like the smaller power transformer, hook up 5 large PTs into one heavi conductive wire?

Why would a battery on the consumer side not make sense?  I mean with consideration to your post earlier regarding batteries, in this context, I'm talking about isolating the consumer side and putting a battery on the consumer side.  So the setup will be more like (generator side) -> (power delivery, so just wires, no consumers) -> (consumer side, isolated, with batteries).

Yeah, the xformers confuse a lot of people (including me!).  Yes, you can gang two small xformers for a Conductive Wire circuit, but folks will warn you to consider the heat implications of doing so.  Early on, it's fine, but later in the game when you have more refined metals available (especially if you get a metal volcano), you may prefer to build PTs instead for both the renewable metal and the reduced heat.

Heavi Conductive has the same no-wall limitations as Heavi-Watt.  So it's explicitly designed to make it painful to use directly in consumer circuits, so you don't do it accidentally.  Also, the Heavi* wire is very ugly, so you should try to minimize it, especially where dupes run around.

Yes, it is possible to overload a Conductive circuit with a PT.  I don't know a good way to avoid this, other than limiting the consumers on the circuit, which is also dumb, because it's easy to get 4-5 kW of short-burst consumers on a circuit (doors, sweepers, atmo docks, etc.), and trying to put them all on separate 2 kW circuits is a massive waste of wire.

Most folks will advise you to just look at the "always on" consumers and use them as a baseline, and hope that the transient consumers don't burn out your wires through unlucky timing.  The biggest culprit I have is the atmo docks, because everyone rushes home for dinner.  I can fix that by moving dinner time to different hours, but for movement efficiency, it's best for dinner time to be next to sleep time, and I dunno if dupes like sleeping at odd hours of the day.

[WanderingKid]

21 minutes ago, Lawnmower Man said:

The biggest culprit I have is the atmo docks, because everyone rushes home for dinner.  I can fix that by moving dinner time to different hours, but for movement efficiency, it's best for dinner time to be next to sleep time, and I dunno if dupes like sleeping at odd hours of the day.

Not to derail, but you can shift your works all the way around the 24 block cycle.  Just try to keep Night Owls and Early Risers away from the edges of the schedule.

[Lawnmower Man]

2 hours ago, WanderingKid said:

Not to derail, but you can shift your works all the way around the 24 block cycle.  Just try to keep Night Owls and Early Risers away from the edges of the schedule.

So there's no penalty for making them sleep in the middle of the day?  The only clock-sensitive dupes are that you want Night Owls working during night, and Early Birds working in the hours right after night?

[WanderingKid]

10 minutes ago, Lawnmower Man said:

So there's no penalty for making them sleep in the middle of the day?  The only clock-sensitive dupes are that you want Night Owls working during night, and Early Birds working in the hours right after night?

This is correct.

[KittenIsAGeek]

6 hours ago, GoHereDoThis said:

Well, that's another D'UH!! moment for me!  I assumed since the power wires came in 1kW and 2kW flavors, that the small and large transformer did as well!  So can 2 power transformers feed into a conductive wire setup to safely supply 2kW but limit it to 2kW?

How do you use a large power transformer then?  It's too big for a conductive wire, but too small for a heavi conductive wire.  So like the smaller power transformer, hook up 5 large PTs into one heavi conductive wire?

Why would a battery on the consumer side not make sense?  I mean with consideration to your post earlier regarding batteries, in this context, I'm talking about isolating the consumer side and putting a battery on the consumer side.  So the setup will be more like (generator side) -> (power delivery, so just wires, no consumers) -> (consumer side, isolated, with batteries).

Yes, two small transformers can be connected in parallels to provide 2kw of power to a conductive wire.

There are several advantages of the large transformer.  The biggest being that you can charge a battery bank AND run your consumers at the same time.  Lets say, for example, that you have 1800w of consumers run simultaneously on a circuit, but not continually.  You want to be certain that when they kick on, they always have power, but you don't need the circuit to be on all the time.  So you put a smart battery on the consumer side and connect the logic circuit to the transformer.  As long as the battery is charged, the transformer remains off.  When the consumers kick in and power drops below a threshold (say half) then the transformer kicks on.  The consumers can continue to run AND the battery will charge, turning off the transformer.  Once the consumers stop, the transformer will remain off until the next time power is needed again.

Another example could be a battery bank for emergency power that is charged by solar or hamster wheels.  The batteries (and solar panels and/or hamster wheels) are on the high side and the low side is connected to your power grid.  Another smart battery, on the power grid side, is connected to the transformer. When the charge drops below a certain threshold (say, 4%), the emergency power kicks in, providing a steady 4kw until the battery bank is empty.

And "why would a battery on the consumer side not make sense" would be when you want to NEVER have the possibility of burning out a wire, even though you have more consumers than the wire can handle.  For example, if you have 4kw of consumers on a  small wire fed by a small transformer, only 1kw of consumers will operate at any given time and the circuit will not burn out.  If you put a battery on that side, up to the full 4kw of consumers could run simultaneously and burn your wires out.

[cblack]

1 hour ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Yes, two small transformers can be connected in parallels to provide 2kw of power to a conductive wire.

There are several advantages of the large transformer.

In theory there are advantages of the large transformer, but transformers are so bugged right now I almost recommend against using them entirely.  For example, doing:

[power source] -> Conductive Wire -> Lg Transformer -> Heavy Conductive Wire battery bank -> Lg Transformer -> Conductive Wire -> [load]

Will break so many things right now.  I have a single steam generator that magically produces 4 KW by itself in this setup, which is constantly overloading the conductive wire, and needing repair from dupes.  You can also get more power from dupes running on hamster wheels than should be possible, and easily jam well over 1KW of electricity through a single small transformer even though that isn't supposed to be possible either.

All in all, they create at least as many problems as they solve.

Edit: Here's a screenshot to show what I mean.  Only 2KW is produced, but somehow 4KW is consumed.

[Nitroturtle]

I run one heavy wire all over my base and use sub-stations with 8 circuits each at the 4 corners of my base.  I'm starting to get spikes higher than 20kw though and it's causing very slight damage, but very minimal as it's only spiking occasionally.

I'm going to try setting up switched batteries and split the system up, I'm hoping that will fix the issue.

Here's how my grid looks currently 

Spoiler

 

[GoHereDoThis]

@KittenIsAGeek  I'm a bit confused here.  Why the need to turn the transformer on and off?  Never even realized you can do that.

 

15 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

And "why would a battery on the consumer side not make sense" would be when you want to NEVER have the possibility of burning out a wire, even though you have more consumers than the wire can handle.  For example, if you have 4kw of consumers on a  small wire fed by a small transformer, only 1kw of consumers will operate at any given time and the circuit will not burn out.  If you put a battery on that side, up to the full 4kw of consumers could run simultaneously and burn your wires out.

I thought batteries were not counted as far as overloading goes?  Consider the following setup: power generator -> smart batteries -> power transformer -> 1kW distribution wire -> smart batteries -> power transformer -> 1kW wire to consumers.

For this example, the consumers can draw 1500kW max, but usually sit around 400kW normal operations.  Is there a chance of overloading any wire?  The distribution wire shouldn't be overloaded as it's going to a battery anyway plus it's limited by the PT on the high side.  The wire to consumers shouldn't be overloaded as it's also limited by PT, so that just means not all of my consumers can power on at once, right?

I'm just trying to understand how this works but in practice, I'll probably just isolate any group that consumes up to 1kW or 2kW.

[RonEmpire]

19 hours ago, Lawnmower Man said:

So there's no penalty for making them sleep in the middle of the day?  The only clock-sensitive dupes are that you want Night Owls working during night, and Early Birds working in the hours right after night?

while yes,  there is one slight difference,  if you want dupes to be working in space and catching the sun for the cheerful bright buff,  make sure you schedule the ones doing the work in space during the day. 

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 hours ago, GoHereDoThis said:

@KittenIsAGeek  I'm a bit confused here.  Why the need to turn the transformer on and off?  Never even realized you can do that.

 

I thought batteries were not counted as far as overloading goes?  Consider the following setup: power generator -> smart batteries -> power transformer -> 1kW distribution wire -> smart batteries -> power transformer -> 1kW wire to consumers.

For this example, the consumers can draw 1500kW max, but usually sit around 400kW normal operations.  Is there a chance of overloading any wire?  The distribution wire shouldn't be overloaded as it's going to a battery anyway plus it's limited by the PT on the high side.  The wire to consumers shouldn't be overloaded as it's also limited by PT, so that just means not all of my consumers can power on at once, right?

I'm just trying to understand how this works but in practice, I'll probably just isolate any group that consumes up to 1kW or 2kW.

OK, turning a transformer on and off is useful for various reasons.  First, you can limit the production of heat.  This generally isn't a big deal if your transformer is outside your living space, but it can be a nuisance.  Second, you can completely isolate certain loads.  For example:

• You have 5kw power production and an average draw of 4kw.  However, it is unbalanced and sometimes the draw is 6kw.  By turning off a transformer, you can disable its entire load.  Lets say on your power production side the batteries start to reach a critical level, say 4%.  One of them triggers logic through a NOT gate to a transformer that provides power to a non-critical load (smelter, perhaps?), reducing the total load.  In this way you can control what systems lose power without risking a critical system like oxygen production.
• You have a small power grid that is usually powered by solar.  Sometimes you have more solar than your grid needs and you want to send the excess to your main power grid.  Lets say you've calculated that a battery charge of 80% is enough to run the small grid during the night when solar doesn't provide power.  But, during the day, you have full batteries for a long period.  Using a smart battery set to, say, 80%, you can enable a transformer to allow power to flow into the main grid during the 'overcharge' part of the day.  If, instead, you used a power shutoff, power could flow either way, depending on which side of the grid didn't have enough power, which would defeat the purpose.

There are other examples, but those should give you some ideas.  Basically while you can use a power shutoff to isolate a circuit, using a transformer allows you to not only isolate the circuit, but determine which way power flows when the circuit is connected.

Now, for your example.. Batteries by themselves are not counted for calculating overload.  Neither are producers.  However, consumers are.  A transformer counts as a consumer for the load connected to the small side.  So, if your last transformer is a small transformer, then you won't have a problem because the max load (there are exceptions) that the small transformer will show to its high side is 1kw.  If your last transformer is large, then your consumers could potentially burn out the 1kw distribution wire if all 1500 watts of consumers are on at the same time.

The setup you show resembles the switched battery setup which gets around this problem by using paired power shutoffs so that one set of batteries is only connected to the power generators and the other set of batteries is only connected to the consumers.  The 1kw distribution wire won't burn out because there are no consumers ever connected to it.  However, you still run the risk of burning out the wire on the consumer side if all 1500 watts fire at once.  

The colors above correspond to the question asked.

TL;DR:

So, battery -> small wire -> large transformer -> load can burn out the small wire if total active load exceeds 1kw. 

 

19 hours ago, cblack said:

In theory there are advantages of the large transformer, but transformers are so bugged right now I almost recommend against using them entirely.  For example, doing:

[power source] -> Conductive Wire -> Lg Transformer -> Heavy Conductive Wire battery bank -> Lg Transformer -> Conductive Wire -> [load]

Will break so many things right now.  I have a single steam generator that magically produces 4 KW by itself in this setup, which is constantly overloading the conductive wire, and needing repair from dupes.  You can also get more power from dupes running on hamster wheels than should be possible, and easily jam well over 1KW of electricity through a single small transformer even though that isn't supposed to be possible either.

All in all, they create at least as many problems as they solve.

Edit: Here's a screenshot to show what I mean.  Only 2KW is produced, but somehow 4KW is consumed.

I suspect the difference would be shown in the power levels of the batteries on the circuits.  If the 'load' side of the transformer circuit is pulling 4kw, then the transformer will report that IT is consuming 4kw -- even if that power is being supplied by batteries on the low side and not actually coming from the high side.
What happens if you have Steam Generator --> conductive wire --> two small transformers --> Heavy conductive Battery bank --> large transformer --> consumers/etc.

[GoHereDoThis]

@KittenIsAGeek  Thanks for the explanation!  So the transformer "trick" you are suggesting is making it like an on/off switch and also to be able to control which consumers get priority over others.  Is the heat produced much of an issue?  I would probably have a couple of small transformers INSIDE my main base, but I could easily relocate those outside the insulating wall if needed.

20 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Now, for your example.. Batteries by themselves are not counted for calculating overload.  Neither are producers.  However, consumers are.  A transformer counts as a consumer for the load connected to the small side.  So, if your last transformer is a small transformer, then you won't have a problem because the max load (there are exceptions) that the small transformer will show to its high side is 1kw.  If your last transformer is large, then your consumers could potentially burn out the 1kw distribution wire if all 1500 watts of consumers are on at the same time.

The setup you show resembles the switched battery setup which gets around this problem by using paired power shutoffs so that one set of batteries is only connected to the power generators and the other set of batteries is only connected to the consumers.  The 1kw distribution wire won't burn out because there are no consumers ever connected to it.  However, you still run the risk of burning out the wire on the consumer side if all 1500 watts fire at once.  

The colors above correspond to the question asked.

TL;DR:

So, battery -> small wire -> large transformer -> load can burn out the small wire if total active load exceeds 1kw.

I'm not exactly looking to duplicate the switched battery setup.  For the purpose of the example. let's assume only using a small power transformer so 1kW limit and also only using basic wires, again, 1kW limit.  Basically, I'm trying to see if this is a fool-proof no-overload setup.

If I'm understanding it correctly, the small transformer on the generator side limits output to the batteries, protecting the distribution wire, correct?  So even if the distribution wire (1kW) branched out to go to four separate batteries, and all four batteries needed charging, it would simply give out 0.25kW to each battery?

Then on the consumer side, again assuming a small power transformer and 1kW wire, but with potential consumption at 1.5kW, will this wire burn out when all consumers switch on or will it only provide 1kW and not all consumers can get power?

[KittenIsAGeek]

12 minutes ago, GoHereDoThis said:

I'm not exactly looking to duplicate the switched battery setup.  For the purpose of the example. let's assume only using a small power transformer so 1kW limit and also only using basic wires, again, 1kW limit.  Basically, I'm trying to see if this is a fool-proof no-overload setup.

If I'm understanding it correctly, the small transformer on the generator side limits output to the batteries, protecting the distribution wire, correct?  So even if the distribution wire (1kW) branched out to go to four separate batteries, and all four batteries needed charging, it would simply give out 0.25kW to each battery?

Then on the consumer side, again assuming a small power transformer and 1kW wire, but with potential consumption at 1.5kW, will this wire burn out when all consumers switch on or will it only provide 1kW and not all consumers can get power?

You're adding a bit too much complexity.  At your power grid, you can have a small transformer, then run your 1kw wire to your load, wherever it is.

However, with the setup you detailed, yes the first small transformer would limit the rate at which your batteries charged, but it is unnecessary as batteries don't count as consumers.  You could use a large transformer and charge your bank much more quickly without causing any problems to the distribution wire.  Using a second small transformer, with the batteries on the high side and only consumers on the low side, will limit the power on the consumer side to 1kw even if you have 1.5kw of consumers.  

That said, there are some conditions where this doesn't quite work out right, as pointed out elsewhere: Lets suppose you have 9 refrigerators on a single 1kw wire.  The total draw for continual use is 1080 watts.  My assumption is that something like this happens: For two ticks, 8 refrigerators will run drawing 1/4 * 960 joules per tick.  The third tick, all 9 will operate drawing 1/4 * 1080 joules that tick.  The fourth tick, only 8 refrigerators will run again, drawing 1/4 * 960 joules.  The total average for 1 second of operation is 990 watts, but during that quarter second where the 9th refrigerator operated, you exceeded the power capacity of the wire and you might get burn out.  However, this only happens when you have a consistent load running at very close to the 1kw capacity.  I haven't been able to reproduce the effect using 5 fans, for example.

Finally, your question about heat.  A power transformer (both large and small), when operating, generates 1000 DTUs of heat.  A smart battery generates 500 DTUs any time there is a charge on it.  This means that you can cut the heat in half by using a smart battery to control the transformer.  For comparison, both ceiling lights and floor lights produce 500 DTUs of heat, meaning a transformer is roughly equivalent to two light bulbs.  This isn't a LOT of heat, but it is CONTINUAL heat, which is why there are so many threads discussing the problems of keeping bristleblooms cool.  If you have some sort of active cooling system (even if that's just cool water flowing through regular pipes), then the heat isn't an issue at all.  In critical applications, such as the heat sensitivity of bristleblooms, its something you'll want to watch out for.

[Lawnmower Man]

46 minutes ago, GoHereDoThis said:

[...]

Is the heat produced much of an issue?  I would probably have a couple of small transformers INSIDE my main base, but I could easily relocate those outside the insulating wall if needed.

[...]

For whatever little extra work it is, you will definitely profit from putting power buildings *outside* your core insulating wall.  Doing this when you *can*, rather than when you *must* will make the game more fun in the long run.

[KittenIsAGeek]

11 minutes ago, Lawnmower Man said:

For whatever little extra work it is, you will definitely profit from putting power buildings *outside* your core insulating wall.  Doing this when you *can*, rather than when you *must* will make the game more fun in the long run.

I agree with this completely.  Transformers and batteries may not produce a lot of heat, but it is continual and will need to be dealt with at some point.  Better to not let it become a problem in the first place rather than find out at cycle 400 that you have to completely rebuild your bristlebloom farm because of the heat.

...that's never happened to me at all! I swar! .. well, OK, maybe once before I realized that little things like lights and transformers add up to big problems over time.

[GoHereDoThis]

Thanks for the awesome help guys!

I did have a base that suffered from major heat issues but this was before I learned about insulation and actually paying attention to heat-producing items.  I now put my power generators and research stations outside my main base, and I do it as part of my initial build design.  My only other issue now is my toilets since it is warm water circulating through and sitting in pipes so I use insulated (granite) pipes and insulated (granite or sandstone) tiles and I hope it won't be an issue later on.  Obviously, the toilets and showers are inside my main base.

@KittenIsAGeek Why do you say my setup is complex?  I thought the switched battery setup was complex and mine was simpler!

Thank you for your example with the fridges!  As mentioned before, I'll try to avoid that situation whenever possible but I think I'm understanding it a bit more now with your examples.  Again, most of my setups have an under-1kW constant load and just spike up when certain machines turn on, so I hope it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 hours ago, GoHereDoThis said:

 

@KittenIsAGeek Why do you say my setup is complex?  I thought the switched battery setup was complex and mine was simpler!

Because you're adding some unnecessary steps.  There's no need for the battery bank in the middle when you're using transformers.  You can get the exact same result by having your batteries on your main power grid, then a single small transformer running to your load.

Basically: Power grid --> transformer --> battery bank --> transformer --> load will behave very similarly to Power grid + batteries --> transformer --> load.  The only functional difference is the first example batteries will only supply to the load of the second transformer where in the second example, the batteries provide to the grid as a whole.  You could also do power grid --> transformer --> batteries + load which gives the same functionality as the first example with the caveat that you need to watch what consumers you have on your grid.

 

3 hours ago, GoHereDoThis said:

I did have a base that suffered from major heat issues but this was before I learned about insulation and actually paying attention to heat-producing items.  I now put my power generators and research stations outside my main base, and I do it as part of my initial build design.  My only other issue now is my toilets since it is warm water circulating through and sitting in pipes so I use insulated (granite) pipes and insulated (granite or sandstone) tiles and I hope it won't be an issue later on.  Obviously, the toilets and showers are inside my main base.

Insulated granite will slowly warm up if you're using a recirculating setup.  Insulated igneous will be the best material early in the game with a thermal conductivity of 0.063.  Later when you switch to ceramic, you'll get much better performance because the conductivity is 0.019.  Here's a SS of my current setup using insulated ceramic.

Spoiler

If you don't insulate the tiles of your bathroom, the small amount of heat will disperse into your base, it isn't that much of an issue.  One wheezewart somewhere near the hottest area would solve the problem completely.