Gas/Liquid extractor

[Dracian]

HI there,

Right now, dormancies and active periods in geysers/volcano has introduced a lot of chaos in resources management. In order to bring back some order, why not having the ability to build some kind of extractor on top of the Vent that would "normalize" gas or liquid output. The idea is not to remove active periods or dormancy, but to make them invisible once the extractor is built by smoothing the Output. Basically, the Extractor Output would be continuous and would be EO = Geyser Output * (Active Period / (Active Period + Inactive Period)) * (Non Dormancy Period / (Non Dormancy Period + Dormancy Period). You can imagine giving a small bonus to the Extractor Output in order to encourage players to build it.

It would probably require Electricity to function, as well as some advanced materials such as refined metals. It would probably also radiate some heat.

In any case, thanks for reading this and keep up the good work

[TheExceed]

3 hours ago, Dracian said:

HI there,

Right now, dormancies and active periods in geysers/volcano has introduced a lot of chaos in resources management. In order to bring back some order, why not having the ability to build some kind of extractor on top of the Vent that would "normalize" gas or liquid output. The idea is not to remove active periods or dormancy, but to make them invisible once the extractor is built by smoothing the Output. Basically, the Extractor Output would be continuous and would be EO = Geyser Output * (Active Period / (Active Period + Inactive Period)) * (Non Dormancy Period / (Non Dormancy Period + Dormancy Period). You can imagine giving a small bonus to the Extractor Output in order to encourage players to build it.

It would probably require Electricity to function, as well as some advanced materials such as refined metals. It would probably also radiate some heat.

In any case, thanks for reading this and keep up the good work

I like the idea, emitting more heat for some of the geyser wouldn't be nice tho ;c
I suggested allowing multiple analyzing options to further normalization in them.
Would give more experience for dupes in the scientist job once you finish all your research (yes i know you get it over time)
If it is going to emit heat, it should reduce the heat of the gas/liquid.

[ImpalerWrG]

I'm really getting sick of these dumbing-down requests. 

YOUR supposed to build the order, stockpile the output and manage it.  Nothing your describing can not be done with the mechanics in game already, use them to design those system, you have all the data on the long term average outputs to be able to do this.

[TheExceed]

2 minutes ago, ImpalerWrG said:

I'm really getting sick of these dumbing-down requests. 

YOUR supposed to build the order, stockpile the output and manage it.  Nothing your describing can not be done with the mechanics in game already, use them to design those system, you have all the data on the long term average outputs to be able to do this.

You're* and you're*

[Koningkrush]

33 minutes ago, ImpalerWrG said:

I'm really getting sick of these dumbing-down requests. 

YOUR supposed to build the order, stockpile the output and manage it.  Nothing your describing can not be done with the mechanics in game already, use them to design those system, you have all the data on the long term average outputs to be able to do this.

I don't really see how this is dumbing down. Do you consider it to be dumbed down in math when a complicated equation is factored?

1. I would recommend it function similar to an oil well, with a maximum back-pressure (breaking the building if it hits 100%).

2. It should also work with automation and have the option of being powered or not powered, just like a Mechanized Airlock, with the latter requiring duplicant use.

3. It should have a pipe output. This shouldn't require any power because the pressure is already there. This makes steam geysers more viable for powering Steam Turbines, and it saves power by not needing to use a liquid/gas pump in a big box around the geyser.

4. The geyser should have to be analyzed prior to building this structure. Makes the whole geyser analysis thing more important.

5. The structure should probably require refined metal to build.

6. Could easily be rolled into the same research slot as the Steam Turbine, due to how well it works with said building.

7. This would also allow you to isolate the heat from a geyser by vacuum sealing this extractor within insulated tiles, allowing you to transport the heated liquid/gas through insulated pipes to another location to deal with.

[ImpalerWrG]

11 minutes ago, Koningkrush said:

I don't really see how this is dumbing down. Do you consider it to be dumbed down in math when a complicated equation is factored?

1. I would recommend it function similar to an oil well, with a maximum back-pressure (breaking the building if it hits 100%).

2. It should also work with automation and have the option of being powered or not powered, just like a Mechanized Airlock, with the latter requiring duplicant use.

3. It should have a pipe output. This shouldn't require any power because the pressure is already there. This makes steam geysers more viable for powering Steam Generators.

4. The geyser should have to be analyzed prior to building this structure. Makes the whole geyser analysis thing more important.

 

If we were creating a game in which the player factors equations then yes having them factored for you is dumbing down that game, this is not a hard concept.  ONI is a game about producing and managing myriad flows and stockpiles of consumables to prevent your dupes from dying all the while using their labor to expand the size and complexity of the system.  Continuous reliable resource outputs make that job easier, nonrenewable and intermittent ones make it harder.

[Koningkrush]

8 minutes ago, ImpalerWrG said:

If we were creating a game in which the player factors equations then yes having them factored for you is dumbing down that game, this is not a hard concept.  ONI is a game about producing and managing myriad flows and stockpiles of consumables to prevent your dupes from dying all the while using their labor to expand the size and complexity of the system.  

This is why research in the game exists. It provides an end goal to work towards, and the result is a simplified process of handling previously difficult issues. This is how everything in life works.

This machine would probably be one of the last research options, likely being rolled into the same research that gives access to the Steam Turbine.

If you don't like how certain buildings simplify the game that much, you could choose to handicap yourself by not researching them.

[Kasuha]

10 hours ago, Dracian said:

In order to bring back some order, why not having the ability to build some kind of extractor on top of the Vent that would "normalize" gas or liquid output.

You can do it already. It's not extremely easy, but can be done. First, you calculate what the average output of your geyser is. 

average_output = eruption_output * (eruption_length / eruption_period) * (activity_length / cycle_length)

Then you need to calculate amount of material you need to store to cover the dormant period:

storage_size = (cycle_length - activity_length) * average_output

Then you build storage large enough to hold that amount of material, store everything the geyser produces in that storage, and pull contents of that storage through a valve set to average_output.

 

I have built such things for almost all my geysers and it worked fine.

[Flydo]

13 hours ago, Dracian said:

HI there,

Right now, dormancies and active periods in geysers/volcano has introduced a lot of chaos in resources management.

In accordance to Kasuha and ImpalerWrG, i don't see how it's introduced chaos in ressources management, you only have to calculate how many gas/liquid geyser/volcano made for one period and divide it by the number of cycle of one period to know how much you can pump by cycle.

If you pump too much, it's only because your needs is too high so you construct a too big base too fast

If you pump too little the gas/liquid geyser become at a point overpressurized and stop working so it's don't produce more heat.

In other case, you can also overpressurized the volcano/geyser manually or automatically with liquid to get the production of heat or gas/liquid stopped.

I really don't see where is the trouble in geyser/volcano management

[TheExceed]

3 hours ago, Flydo said:

In accordance to Kasuha and ImpalerWrG, i don't see how it's introduced chaos in ressources management, you only have to calculate how many gas/liquid geyser/volcano made for one period and divide it by the number of cycle of one period to know how much you can pump by cycle.

If you pump too much, it's only because your needs is too high so you construct a too big base too fast

If you pump too little the gas/liquid geyser become at a point overpressurized and stop working so it's don't produce more heat.

In other case, you can also overpressurized the volcano/geyser manually or automatically with liquid to get the production of heat or gas/liquid stopped.

I really don't see where is the trouble in geyser/volcano management

Just because it's easy for you, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. Keep that in mind and don't sound so arrogant and condescending.
It could just be the language barrier though. Although, needing to do your own calculations is a bit lame for my taste. The information should be laid out for you after analyzing a geyser. I'm just trying to enjoy the game, not sit there and run calculations the whole time. 

[Flydo]

2 minutes ago, TheExceed said:

Just because it's easy for you, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. Keep that in mind and don't sound so arrogant and condescending.
It could just be the language barrier though. Although, needing to do your own calculations is a bit lame for my taste. The information should be laid out for you after analyzing a geyser. I'm just trying to enjoy the game, not sit there and run calculations the whole time. 

Sorry for the sound i look, it's not the point i want to be seen.

I understand that doing calcultation could be quite annoying (even for me), like you tell an information telling how much a geyser produce in a complete period sound cool, to have juste to divide it by the duration in cycle of a period sound a great idea.

The point i want to show is that we don't need a new machine to change the way geyser produce gas from the cycle to a continuous production, i think this killig the pleasure of managing the ressource

[TheExceed]

Just now, Flydo said:

Sorry for the sound i look, it's not the point i want to be seen.

I understand that doing calcultation could be quite annoying (even for me), like you tell an information telling how much a geyser produce in a complete period sound cool, to have juste to divide it by the duration in cycle of a period sound a great idea.

The point i want to show is that we don't need a new machine to change the way geyser produce gas from the cycle to a continuous production, i think this killig the pleasure of managing the ressource

Just because such a building is added, doesn't mean you need to use it. But yeah I would prefer being able to analyze it again to make adjustments to the geyser. Like, during the dormancy period you can analyze them to get slightly better stats or maybe even randomize the stats.

[ImpalerWrG]

If people want to not do MATH then I can sympathize with that, not wanting to DESIGN & BUILD a system to handle the problem is what I'm objecting to and calling a dumbing-down.  If the solutions to the equations that Kashua lists were provided on the tenured scientist report that's fine.  It is the desire for a building that just solves your problem in swoop and tries to essentially undo the whole feature of dormancy periods that I object too.

[Yoma_Nosme]

Hey. So what's the deal here? I don't get the struggle. With door compressor you can store anything..anything the geyser or vents throw at you from there it's just a question of how fast you need/want to extract...

If it's heat...compress the magma or gold or whatever. And build on one side of the tank the three door thing that makes a vacuum in the middle and extract heat on demand.

If it's gaseous or liquid just store it in compressor and take what you need when you need it. 

It looks cool, clean and collected.