Time to buff some character in the forge.

[Tranoze]

I love to see these character in the forge more...

Maxwell.

Passively he suppose to deal more damage compare to willow later in the game. But that not the case, his passive cant trigger when he attack 2 targets at the same time(That where willow deal more damage than maxwell, even best player cant trigger move and auto attack animation cancel perfectly to make maxwell work), and his low health cant survive Rhinocebros.

Additional passive: Spell will be cast instantly, no cast time required.

Wolfgang.

He is no tank compare to wx78, his mighty form is a joke that it has cooldown and cant last any seconds against Scorpeon.

He should get his old mighty system where his mightiness scale with his health.

Wendy

She is strong at some moment if you know how to use her, against Snortoise. But she still nothing compare to Webber, and Wilson, in term of physical dps. She do a little bit at everything and good at nothing.

Abigail should really try to protect her, will revive her with normal speed but 2x more heal than normal if she die while abigail alive.

Wes

This character is too OP and need to be nerfed. At all cost.

[Monkey Cups]

32 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Wes

This character is too OP and need to be nerfed. At all cost.

Indeed he is.

On a serious note, some of the characters do need a rebalance. If another can make them essentially obsolete then one needs to be buffed or the other nerfed. *cough* Woodie *cough*

[Thalkas]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

I love to see these character in the forge more...

Maxwell.

Passively he suppose to deal more damage compare to willow later in the game. But that not the case, his passive cant trigger when he attack 2 targets at the same time(That where willow deal more damage than maxwell, even best player cant trigger move and auto attack animation cancel perfectly to make maxwell work), and his low health cant survive Rhinocebros.

Additional passive: Spell will be cast instantly, no cast time required.

Sorry but u write kinda stupid things. I more like Max and he do more dmg than Willow. When i play him i have 50-60k per match. Rhino isnt problem, nah he is the best on Rhino!

Spoiler

 

[marxotic]

46 minutes ago, Thalkas said:

Sorry but u write kinda stupid things. I more like Max and he do more dmg than Willow. When i play him i have 50-60k per match. Rhino isnt problem, nah he is the best on Rhino!

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Those numbers are pretty average for a good dps.  The problem is that his abilities are on par with other classes yet he has an enormous disability of 1/2 hp.  His playstyle in regular DST is "high risk, high reward" to Forge "high risk, no reward".

 

On top of this, Wicker is arguably a better choice in Maxwell's intended role being able to 1 shot pit pig waves with her charged up meteor.  Also she can cast boosted book of beckoning minion, petrify and be the best healer in the game.

 

I'd still pick Wicker over Maxwell's forge abilities even if their hp were the same!

 

I did hear that the whispering grand armor coming up will buff minions ( I may be totally off on this ), perhaps it will buff Max's shadow minion proc?

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, Thalkas said:

Sorry but u write kinda stupid things. I more like Max and he do more dmg than Willow. When i play him i have 50-60k per match. Rhino isnt problem, nah he is the best on Rhino!

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You deal a lot of damage with him doesn't mean he out damage willow. Do you see him in any leader board, from 1 to 10? It simply because with same skill level, playing willow give much more damage, walking attacking only give 75% bonus attackspeed (what maxwell and willow do when they focus 1 monster) while change target give 100% bonus attackspeed due to 25% time you work on walking animation (what only willow can do because maxwell wont trigger his passive doing so.)

Maxwell are much harder to play than willow, and what i want is for people has good skill set like you, to deal as much damage as willow in late game. or simply, be more useful in other ways.

[brbrmensch]

1 hour ago, Thalkas said:

Sorry but u write kinda stupid things. I more like Max and he do more dmg than Willow. When i play him i have 50-60k per match. Rhino isnt problem, nah he is the best on Rhino!

/me looks at scoreboard and notices no maxwells whatsoever

[Thalkas]

15 minutes ago, brbrmensch said:

/me looks at scoreboard and notices no maxwells whatsoever

 

23 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

You deal a lot of damage with him doesn't mean he out damage willow. Do you see him in any leader board, from 1 to 10? It simply because with same skill level, playing willow give much more damage, walking attacking only give 75% bonus attackspeed (what maxwell and willow do when they focus 1 monster) while change target give 100% bonus attackspeed due to 25% time you work on walking animation (what only willow can do because maxwell wont trigger his passive doing so.)

Maxwell are much harder to play than willow, and what i want is for people has good skill set like you, to deal as much damage as willow in late game. or simply, be more useful in other ways.

Why Willow have bigger pickrate? Because Maxwell shadows not working with faster atack  but yes i played a lot Willow and a lot Max and with hand on heart i can tell - Willow's 10% is nothing aganist Maxwell shadows.

 

And ah sorry so if leaderboard start picking Max then we will be OP? Stupid idea, as typical people going like monkeys for "better" because others played one set. Sounds like braindead but okey no one must can think  btw thread is about buff characters not about leaderboad. But if people must everywhere put leaderboard...

[marxotic]

1 minute ago, Thalkas said:

 

Why Willow have bigger pickrate? Because Maxwell shadows not working with faster atack  but yes i played a lot Willow and a lot Max and with hand on heart i can tell - Willow's 10% is nothing aganist Maxwell shadows.

Sorry it's not a "bigger pickrate", Willow has a "bigger win rate", by an enormous margin.  But we are supposed to believe Max is better because "I can tell".

Sure.

 

[Thalkas]

6 minutes ago, marxotic said:

Sorry it's not a "bigger pickrate", Willow has a "bigger win rate", by an enormous margin.  But we are supposed to believe Max is better because "I can tell".

Sure.

Sure. U can. Write this. Because we have. Freedom of speech. So if u know about bigger win rate u must work in Klei? Because no one have these statistics now! Good for you!

[Notseri]

Also worth mentioning that i do not see max picked very regularly in pub, mostly due to chaotic nature of these where he might die often due to teammates not caring etc, so statistics might be off as well when compared vs a larger willow pool. Also this is getting off topic again and mbe someone who's rly committed to this topic can open a separate discussion thread and work out some stats like that winona vs wicker heal one.

[Tranoze]

27 minutes ago, Thalkas said:

 

Why Willow have bigger pickrate? Because Maxwell shadows not working with faster atack  but yes i played a lot Willow and a lot Max and with hand on heart i can tell - Willow's 10% is nothing aganist Maxwell shadows.

 

And ah sorry so if leaderboard start picking Max then we will be OP? Stupid idea, as typical people going like monkeys for "better" because others played one set. Sounds like braindead but okey no one must can think  btw thread is about buff characters not about leaderboad. But if people must everywhere put leaderboard...

Read please. Willow 10% is NOT as much as max shadow, but maxshadow does not trigger 100% on every mob. And the most important technique for big damage is switch target (use attack animation to cancel attack animation) better than move attack (use move animation to cancel attack animation) which maxwell cant trigger his shadow if he do switch target. That alone give another 25% more damage when willow has mutiple target to attack.

Max shadow also not working with ability, only reason to pick him is when healer is winona and you need someone to use book.

Max cant do damage until he has his staff (unless you wanna go mele forever with 75 hp), that another point for willow. He can use healing staff for that, but still can only deal as much damage as dart when willow doesnt cancel her attack animation.

[marxotic]

I would argue that the leaderboard teams aren't picking a team based on "what the pubbies think". They know what they are doing and are making picks for performance reasons.

 

Minimally, the closeness in performance clearly doesn't justify Max's near 1/2 hp pool.  Perhaps not a straight up dps boost is the right approach to fixing Max but certainly some sort of upgrade is in order.

 

@ Notseri: I don't see how discussing character mechanics is off topic.  Though I do see that Thalkas is getting triggered by his "Freedom of Speech" post. /rollseyes

[Notseri]

11 minutes ago, marxotic said:

 

 

@ Notseri: I don't see how discussing character mechanics is off topic.  Though I do see that Thalkas is getting triggered by his "Freedom of Speech" post. /rollseyes

it is because this post is talking about buffing characters, and instead of giving feedbacks etc on OP's opinion you are just giving argument points about character comparison, which can be put in a discussion thread instead of this one in the suggestion forum.

[marxotic]

3 minutes ago, Notseri said:

it is because this post is talking about buffing characters, and instead of giving feedbacks etc on OP's opinion you are just giving argument points about character comparison, which can be put in a discussion thread instead of this one in the suggestion forum.

If Klei didn't want us to discuss the merit of feedback they would have made it a suggestions dropbox rather than a public forum.  It's all good so long people stay *ahem* rational and non-insulting....

[brbrmensch]

57 minutes ago, Thalkas said:

Because Maxwell shadows not working with faster atack

you can fast attack on single target and trigger shadows even on a pig, i don't understand you, sorry

[Tranoze]

9 hours ago, brbrmensch said:

you can fast attack on single target and trigger shadows even on a pig, i don't understand you, sorry

i know. but let go back the the basic of fast attack.

Fast attack is to cancel your attack animation with another animation before the attack end but it still triggered.

There are 2 type of fast attack, switch target, and single target.

In switch target, you use attack animation to cancel attack animation, so you have no waste time in it at all.

In single target, you use move animation to cancel attack animation, so you lose 15%~25% time of your animation on walking animation. Still faster than holding F but not as fast as switch target.

Pig dies before maxwell can trigger his passive, and even if he can, his passive is overkill already, that waste of damage. But without any starve, he cant trigger his passive at all, since his mele form is to low to fight along. Healing starve can trigger it, but it still lack of damage compare to dart.

[adaxe]

For noobs maxwell is too fragile. And best players always choose Willow instead. Maxwell seems to be an option for average players.

 

[Monkey Cups]

A lot of Forge's balance issues in regards to ranged users would be fixed if Klei removed animation cancelling and force-disabled mods for events. Anyone with darts or a staff can take advantage of it, and I've seen people using mods to rapidly switch far away targets faster than actually using mouse clicks would be capable of doing. Willow would be less valuable if she could no longer spam click.