The Don't Starve Version Dilemma

[Rhovious Aran]

Hello there dear Don't Starve Community,

first of all, let me tell you how much I adore this game and how much it means to me. I have been a gamer all my life basically. I am 28 now, and basically started gaming when I was 4. And by a long shot Don't Starve has been one of my favourite game franchises ever. Rivaling even the other games that defined my youth like WoW. I have around 250 hours in DS and 1050 hours in DST. I know it's not that much, but the "Dilemma" I refer to in this topic is the main reason why it's not more.

Also, I want to apologize in advance. I actually really dislike when people just come on the forum to complain. But this just troubles me so much that I just have to get it out at some point. 

What's been bothering me ever since the release of DST, especially with A New Reign and ever more so as new DLCs for singleplayer like Shipwrecked and now Hamlet came out or are about to is that there is never quite a complete version of Don't Starve. One that comprises everything that has been made for the game so far. So  basically all the assets from  Don't Starve, Reign of Giants, Shipwrecked, Hamlet, A New Reign, the Forge & The Gorge.

Sorry this is not about me, but I feel like this needs to be clarified so you can maybe understand me better. I am quite a troubled person. I am a bit autistic and I have never had friends in my life and I have strong social anxieties. So for like 95% of the time I play alone, it's the same for Together. Most of the time I play DST since I feel like it has the most content combined in one game. 

What I do and the "Dilemma".
For my solitude I have gotten used to building mega bases most of the time, like big ones that encompass at least one entire biome, the more the better. My dream is to turn an entire world into a base. But the so called "Dilemma" frustrates me to a point now that I find myself unable to play this game anymore. What I particularly miss when playing one version of this game is the assets from the other games. Like all sorts of trees (pine, birch, totally normal tree cave banana, Sugarwood trees,, cocopalm, SW jungle, SW totally normal, Mangrove Trees, Tea Trees, Tropical Trees, Corc Trees, Tubers) the bushes, normal ones, fancy ones, juicy berry bushes, coffee bushes, lichen, cactee, the spikey cactees in the SW volcano, grass, twig saplings, spikey bushes... all the animals to put in a pen. The new ruin walls you see near the fountain of youth.

Well sorry, I should stop listing things. You get the idea. Basically I just need everything to be able to include them in worlds.

Now technically, DST feels like the most complete version to me, it seems to have the most content. However, on the contrary it also seems to be, (now after playing the Hamlet beta even more so) the most dull when it comes to the biomes. You only have Pine trees and Birch trees (Twiggy Trees) aren't really tree-ie enough to make forests out of them or use them as a reliable road decoration in my opinion)

They did an amazing job for the hamlet world when it comes to bio diversity. 

Hamlet
Now Hamlet also introduced housing and trading and basically all these new cute pocket instances, which seem to me like the best addition they have ever made in any iteration of Don't Starve. Not having access to them in DST just sucks the life out of me. I don't see how I will ever be able to go back to playing the normal DST once Hamlet has its full release. Because not having housing and trading just means that such a vital part of the game will now be missing. 

Why not just use mods?
You could say that I can find these things in Mods. Sure, and I tried that. Endless times, I wasted hours upon hours of trying to get worlds running that include like 50 different mods that just add assets from other versions often leading to the world being really unstable or not even being able to generate to begin with. So it's not really possible. Most of you probably know the Streamer Glermz. He also likes to build megabases, he seems to have some loyal subscribers that regularly and very quickly port all the assets from new updates into small, functioning DST mods for him, and uniquely for him. They are not accessible to the playerbase. Watching his stream and seeing him having these assets and now way for me to ever get them frustrates me to the point that I am now completely unable to continue playing any of my DST worlds. As it always makes me feel like I am playing an incomplete version of the game, like I am missing out on too much for it to be worth playing. I know it's all in my head and that I should just shut this of and have fun. But I am afraid I cannot. Playing the game in any version other than its prime raw "vanilla" version also gives me the feeling of "I am not good enough, I am a noob if I use mods". 

The Forge and the Gorge
When it comes to these events. I am actually really impressed by Klei how they tried to push the boundaries of this game and try to implement new concepts into this already very rich game. However, on the other hand I am also quite frustrated, as it leaves me with a feeling that the effort and time put into development of these events was "wasted" (sorry if this sounds harsh). Don't get me wrong. I love that they did that. But these events are only available for a limited time and don't add anything that I can implement into my worlds. So many working hours went into something that is only accessible for a short period of time. I would have prefered for them to try to work in the Forge fighting system and the Gorge cooking system into the base version of DST... just with all other DLCs like SW & Hamlet. Furthermore, I run into problem of my solitude again here. Public groups or Quick Matches unfortunately frustrate me too much. I wish it was otherwise. I wish I could not take these games so seriously. But to me they just are more than a game. 

"It's a chance for Klei to earn some money via accompanying these events with purchasable skins" does not cut it for me. In my opinion they could also release these skins alongside a patch that introduces actual content to the base game.


I am starving for assets..
If I could have just one thing it would be more trees in DST.

It would just give me so much life, if they tried to eventually work some of these assets into DST. Like, I'll pay you 100$ to pay the employee who spends a day to replace the birch trees at the oasis with jungle trees or palms or whatever. Like they actually do work on things all the time. Skins for characters, for structures the seasonal events for DLC, the new Events like Forge and Gorge. The singleplayer DLCs. But they are just all spread out so much.

I can only only build so many chests to cover all the different items. Even with the 7th or 8th or how manieth ever chest skin. I am really starving for new assets...

I see sooooooo much potential in this game. And for a change and to our fortune,Klei is really one of these good companies (one of the few that are left). Who actually care about what they are doing and are passionate about their games. Especially in a world were you see other companies that accompanied my childhood and that I used to care about like Blizzard turned into greedy victims of capitalism and only ever care about how to increase the profits for their investors. to the huge downfall and loss of their games that suffer for it. It's like getting to know that Santa is not real... seeing these companies turn sour really shatters my world and breaks my heart. I am glad Klei is here, as one of the very rare beacons of hope these days. The fact that Don't Starve is not played by millions of people is just beyond me. It's really one of my favourite IPs of all times.

They could go so much further with this. I would love to have a MMORPG version of DST. The world, the way the items and interactions and the bosses and everything just seems like such a perfect fit. One can dream....

Playing DST, turning these wild worlds full of danger and mystery into gardens. Taming this wild beast is what calms my troubled mind... But recently I found myself just too distressed with feeling incomplete due to the lack of a combined DS version. 

I don't know what to do. Does anyone have suggestions on how I could fix this issue for me?

I just wanna say thank you Klei. Thank you for being this beacon of hope in my life. Thank you for these endless hours of joy and peace to my soul you have given me with the creation of your wonderful game.

I love you guys... <3

Thanks for hearing me out. And sorry for unloading here. I just care about this so much.

[Lumina]

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear that you can't find peace about all of this. I can't pretend i understand the frustration you encounter.

About Forge and Gorge :

36 minutes ago, Rhobious_Aran said:

"It's a chance for Klei to earn some money via accompanying these events with purchasable skins" does not cut it for me. In my opinion they could also release these skins alongside a patch that introduces actual content to the base game.

I do think that events aren't only to sell skins, they are a way to provide a dynamic activity that is different enough for the base game. There is a limit you reach when you want to add content to a game. Some games are adding content every few months, but they encounter a lot of problems : bugs, balance issue, crunch (people having to work too much too often), and as a player sometimes you have the feeling that the game isn't a whole anymore but a strange mass of different things that don't fit together (usually with the old content being sad and less attractive, with nothing shiny).

I do think that events allow Klei some other option than "adding content forever" precisely because it's not added in the base game. So you don't have this feeling that things don't fit together, they are separate and keep their own balance, feeling, lore, and all this stuff.

Also, for some people it's the opportunity to return to the game for time to time, without being bored. It gives a moment when you have something different to do, even only for a time, and avoid the risk of being overwhelmed by too much content at once.

 

About your need of having as much things as possible in one game, i don't see an obvious solution, sadly.

Mods could help, you can even find some nice mods adding custom assets, but it's not a perfect solution because, as you said, too many mods can cause issues. Also, the fact that some mods aren't available for all players is a little sad, i would like to see them shared.

But for various reasons, they can't be the perfect solution, because some things are probably not doable in one version or another. For example, i'm not sure you can really port housing in DST without a lot of work.

 

49 minutes ago, Rhobious_Aran said:

Playing the game in any version other than its prime raw "vanilla" version also gives me the feeling of "I am not good enough, I am a noob if I use mods". 

I do know that hearing this will not be enough, but i really trust that mods have nothing to do with being good or bad at the game, and you aren't a noob because you use them. (I also do think that there is nothing wrong being a noob but it's another topic).

Can't you find a compromise ? Like, if you add mods that could make the game easier, then change a preset to make the game harder. Less berries, less grass, for example.

[JosePapp]

Dst wouldn't work as a MMORPG. Sad to tell you, but the forge and the gorge are events with assets that weren't designed for staying on the long run. I agree with ANR content being ported, but here's the thing :

Don't starve, the original game needs to be appealing for the buyer as a separate product from DST. So they developed hamlet and shipwrecked, which wouldn't work in multiplayer because they weren't meant to.

Meanwhile, Don't starve together still has to have exclusive stuff aside from multiplayer,  and because they didn't wanna split the community, they made recurring 15 day to 1 month events. Making players look forward to kind of seasonal stuff. 

Also! They work on slightly different engines and are both optimized for their own purposes. The reason DST is a standalone is because balance needed to change, and in order to merge the two into a bigger thing, both would have to leave out some of that content that you love. I hope that you understand the situation and that i was helpful!

[Fuffles]

the thing is, as it was announced already, Events are more of a playground for Klei, they get a chance to test features without making them a parenament feature to make people mad. They announced that next year they have big plans and as far as I am aware those big plans will draw feedback from events

[marxotic]

I agree for the most part.  This needing to pick between DS and DST content is silly.  I don't really dig the "it's a lot of work" argument to implement new mechanics seen in Hamlet or Shipwrecked into DST, the gaming business is a very competitive place and most companies would be just happy to have a franchise that allows them the continuous work. Perhaps Klei needs more employees? It's not like we are designing a new technology here like an electric car or something.

I'd like to do Hamlet content but honestly after buying skins for DST it feels strange also buying content for it's twin game DS and not being able to use my DST skins there nor play the content I payed for in DST.

Not to mention being a Maxwell main, he just plays sooo different in DS I kind of loathe going back. I think I'll just skip buying Hamlet.

[CaptainChaotica]

I'm not sure how it would physically work programming-wise, or not make the game insanely confusing (especially but not only to newbies) because of ALL THAT STUFF being available at once (some kind of time/"experience" unlocking system maybe?) but I do get what you meant.  I'm like this with a couple of other series.  Like, for me, there is NO one "perfect" Civilization or Sims game.

I like the overall feel and style and how culture works in Civ 3.  But I also like the prettier graphics of the later games and how 5 has the awesome "make and NAME your own religion" thing.  I want the older gameplay pace with some of the newer features, basically.

Sims--my favourite gameplay style wise is 2, but it gets limited.  (The original "The Sims" was adorable but kids never grew up and there was no weather.  I can't be having that.)  I would LOVE to have the "other characters don't move out, get married, have kids or even AGE until YOU SAY SO" of 2 with the more options, the new things to do, the new jobs, actions, animations etc. of 3 and 4 and the "Create-a-Style" of 3, which is the BEST FEATURE EVER and a crying shame they only ever used it in once.  (Well okay twice if you count Sims Medieval.  It _does_ use the Sims 3 engine, after all.) 

Both series have this annoying breaking-up of my favourite traits between games, so there's no _one_ I can  just hunker down in and happily choose.  So I get where you're coming from with Don't Starve/Together.  I'm just...not sure even having "only" all the DST-exclusive stuff combined with Shipwrecked AND Hamlet wouldn't be super confusing, let alone also throwing in the Forge and the Gorge!

 I mean, those were temporary events for a reason.  They have an ENTIRELY different playstyle that would be highly at odds with the normal gameplay and clash badly in a day-to-day kind of way.  Perhaps a seperate area where _only in that place_ it changes over to the event's rules, otherwise...

...Notorious

[Ali Bun]

On 10/27/2018 at 6:52 AM, FuffledBeeQueen said:

the thing is, as it was announced already, Events are more of a playground for Klei, they get a chance to test features without making them a parenament feature to make people mad. They announced that next year they have big plans and as far as I am aware those big plans will draw feedback from events

As much as I'm disappointed there was really no new base game content at all this year, I'm really hoping next year is going to be as big as they say. This whole year was so dryyy, I need some substance. 

14 hours ago, marxotic said:

I agree for the most part.  This needing to pick between DS and DST content is silly.  I don't really dig the "it's a lot of work" argument to implement new mechanics seen in Hamlet or Shipwrecked into DST, the gaming business is a very competitive place and most companies would be just happy to have a franchise that allows them the continuous work. Perhaps Klei needs more employees? It's not like we are designing a new technology here like an electric car or something.

I'd like to do Hamlet content but honestly after buying skins for DST it feels strange also buying content for it's twin game DS and not being able to use my DST skins there nor play the content I payed for in DST.

Not to mention being a Maxwell main, he just plays sooo different in DS I kind of loathe going back. I think I'll just skip buying Hamlet.

I know there is like 50 people working at Klei at the moment, and Joe said some while ago on a forum post that is lost somewhere, that they all work in separate small teams. So I'm wondering if there are like only 10 people each working on all 5 of their current running games? If that's the case, Klei really needs to hire people. I know they don't want to be too big but having at least 100 staff wouldn't be that big. It would help them a lot to do these big ambitious projects a bit faster, less buggy, and over all just be better than ever. The only problem with that is, employee's cost money and adding an additional 50+ people would probably be a financial stretch for Klei. I just hope they are doing ok financially, I know they hired like two new people I think so maybe they are working on a bigger staff.

[Fuffles]

3 hours ago, Ali Bun said:

As much as I'm disappointed there was really no new base game content at all this year, I'm really hoping next year is going to be as big as they say. This whole year was so dryyy, I need some substance. 

I know there is like 50 people working at Klei at the moment, and Joe said some while ago on a forum post that is lost somewhere, that they all work in separate small teams. So I'm wondering if there are like only 10 people each working on all 5 of their current running games? If that's the case, Klei really needs to hire people. I know they don't want to be too big but having at least 100 staff wouldn't be that big. It would help them a lot to do these big ambitious projects a bit faster, less buggy, and over all just be better than ever. The only problem with that is, employee's cost money and adding an additional 50+ people would probably be a financial stretch for Klei. I just hope they are doing ok financially, I know they hired like two new people I think so maybe they are working on a bigger staff.

I think they prefer to stay small to have a team of friends rather than random people. I think friendship is kinda what gets those small teams into movement! At least I like to believe that

[Rhovious Aran]

I am not sure I agree so much with the confusion argument, many people argue about here, when it comes to the possibility of having all these contents combined in one game.

It's what I always particularly enjoyed about the game already. What set Don't Starve apart for me from other games. You already have soooo many different ways to get food. Farms? Look appealing to new players, older ones tend to skip them until later in the game? Meat Hangers? Tentacles/Bishops/Houndius Shootius that farm Bunnies? Pigs to all kill on full Moon? Hell..  just living off of spiders and a birdcage alltogether? A Gajillion Bee Boxes?

Want 4 logs out of a tree? Take a pine. Or rather 2 and 2 logs and 2 twigs? Take a twiggy tree. Or rather 3 logs and 1 twig? Take a tea tree? Or rather some food alongside the logs? How about a Birch or a Coconut?

Gold? Hammer some veins on the surface. Go in the Caves and mine some Stalagmites. Farm Tumbleweeds and hand in the Trinkets. Ball Pen Hammer the Pig and Mant Statues?

I just loooove this way of getting what you need in so many possible ways. I don't really agree with it becoming confusion, but just adding longevity to this game. Even to this day I have not yet beaten fuelweaver once or even gathered the shadowpieces yet and I know that it's still one thing I can do. When in my DST RoG world there would suddenly be some Temple Ruins that lead to a new Jungle Island, it would just make the game that much richer for me and add a new sense of mystery, discovery and exploration. I would love that. 100 different ways to approach one game? Sign me up!

When I remember me starting the game, I wasn't overwhelmed by all the things you could craft. I picked out the things I liked best and went with them (for way too long) Like it took me probably a combined 100 days before I even found out there is a crock pot and you can cook. I still remember my world  on day 30 (and I thought that was long) in winter and eating nothing but all the berries I had gathered from brining like all the bushes home and catching rabbits with traps. When I killed my first Beefalo some time I was like "booooooy killing these has so much value" Or when I found out you could shave them "jeezus I don't have to kill them to get woooool?" Or when I found out about the value of Koalafants...

I also still remember what a fuss I made about Deerclops until I beat him for the first time, it was basically ah jeez... I know I can survive till he comes and everything will go smooth but if he arrives I have basically lost. I was sooo proud when I first killed him and thought I was incredibly clever too for making him take on the enviroment. And knowing that you can always go bigger than the deerclops if you want to was really encouraging to me. One of my all time avourite additions of all times is Klaus. I love the way you summon him, and the way he rewards you in the end.

All these moments I hold so dear, they all meant I discouvered something new about the game. It's always so refreshing to me, when a game has a lot of content. It's what I have been missing from many other good titles over the years. Games you just love but eventually you get bored with only ever eating 1 or 2 foods or not having more variety of other content. 

Don't Starve for me is one of the few game titles that really shows that a lot of love went into it... you can really tell the company cares about their products.

Also when it comes to the financial aspect of Klei? I have no idea. I was shocked to see them only want 6.99$ for Hamlet and even giving it away for free for all Beta Testers... they really sell themselves too low here. I don't think any die hard fan of Klei would not wanna spend a measle 7$.. Heck. I would pay them 30$. Really puts things into perspective when you see other companies these days with their gambling loot boxes and pay 2 win aspects.

[Ali Bun]

Too be honest I was really surprised they allow so many to keep Hamlet. I'm glad I have it but, I don't know. I feel like I should be giving them money, like more than they are asking for. 

[Maxposting]

*buy every skin chest just because a) klei  and b) i need skins*

Me : Too be honest I was really surprised they allow so many to keep Hamlet. I'm glad I have it but, I don't know. I feel like I should be giving them money, like more than they are asking for. 

*everyone who knows has hamlet and me*

*OOFs*