Angpaur Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 So I created a simple heat calculator. It allows you to select materials so specific heat capacity is automatically filled in. You just type temperature and mass and kDTU is calculated. You can compare 2 materials to figure out how much mass or temperature difference you need to be able to cool down or heat up the materials. You can access it here: http://www.oni-heat-calc.cba.pl/ So far so good - a simple solution for a common problem. I tried to go further and estimate the result temperature of heat transfer between given materials and theirs kDTUs. But formulas, I thought will work, doesn't give consistent results with what I'm observing in the game while testing it. In my calculations I was omiting the heat conductivity factor because I just wanted to get the final temperature without considering how much time does it take to reach it. So for example I tried to estimate the final temperature after exchanging heat between petroleum and super coolant. In the real game enviroment I tried 3 variations of petroleum temperature, while keeping coolant temperature always the same, at 40C and mass of both at 10kg: 150C => final temperature ~60C 200C => final temperature ~70C 300C => final temperature ~88C I build this heat exchanger based on super conductor to test and get real values from game: Spoiler So I would like to ask your help to better understand how to properly count this heat exchange temperature. Can someone please provide me a formula how this should be calculated to obtain same results as in game? Thank you in advance. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Calculation Amount Specific Heat Start Temp End temp Heating/Cooling g (DTU/g)/°C °C °C DTU Petroleum 1 1,760 40 131,0 -160,19 Super Coolant 1 8,440 150 131,0 160,19 In game simulation, quantity is irrelevant, the liquids started at exactly 150°C and 40°C and only took few seconds to reach end temperature (liquids in contact exchange heat very rapidly): There is a limit at which the heat exchanged is too small so it doesn't happen (which caused them to not reach the final temperature). It was discussed elsewhere in this forum. The formula to calculate the end temperature is: Te = (HC_petro * Ts_petro + HC_super * Ts_super) / (HC_petro + HC_super) where: Te = end temperature HC = Heat Capacity Ts = Start Temperature Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, thejams said: In game simulation, quantity is irrelevant, Not always true unfortunately. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, Saturnus said: Not always true unfortunately. Well we cant simulate mg of liquids cause they just vanish, but from 1000kg to 10g the simulation is the same. Don't really know about other materials. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 @thejams Thank you so much! I have updated the calculator. Now it shows final temperature after heat exchange. And I think that mass can matter in case of heat exchange in the test build I showed here. If in one pipe there is coolant at rate of 10kg/s(40C) and in second petroleum at rate of 5kg/s(150C) then calculator shows that final temperature will be 50C. Cannot test it in game right now as I'm at work. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, thejams said: Well we cant simulate mg of liquids cause they just vanish, but from 1000kg to 10g the simulation is the same. Don't really know about other materials. Please refer to this thread Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejams Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Well if the mass is not the same, you need to solve the heat exchange with the mass taken into account too. The above example was assuming equal mass. It will become: Te = (HC1 * m1 * Ts1 + HC2 * m2 * Ts2) / (HC1 * m1 + HC2 * m2) cmmon, this is elementary school grade math and physics EDIT: oh, you already did ... sorry Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 I already added mass to the equation in calculator. That is why it shows 50C, not 58C for the conditions with different mass. I was not asking how to add mass as a factor - I just mentioned that it can influence final temperatue Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Angpaur said: I already added mass to the equation in calculator. That is why it shows 50C, not 58C for the conditions with different mass. Ok. Let me ask in a simple way. Is there heat transfer between a tile of 200kg 2000K magma to a sandstone insulated tile? If yes, then the calculator is correct. Is there heat transfer between a tile of 2000kg 2000K magma to a sandstone insulated tile? If yes, then the calculator is incorrect. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Saturnus said: Ok. Let me ask in a simple way. Is there heat transfer between a tile of 200kg 2000K magma to a sandstone insulated tile? If yes, then the calculator is correct. Is there heat transfer between a tile of 2000kg 2000K magma to a sandstone insulated tile? If yes, then the calculator is incorrect. As I already mentioned in the orignal post the calculator doesn't consider termal conductivity as a factor - it counts like conductivity is instant or infinite. I made it in order to calculate for example how much coolant I need to cool down some other material if I know its temperature and mass. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Angpaur said: As I already mentioned in the orignal post the calculator doesn't consider termal conductivity as a factor - it counts like conductivity is instant or infinite. I made it in order to calculate for example how much coolant I need to cool down some other material if I know its temperature and mass. Not arguing that at all. Merely pointing out that heat transfer isn't a simple binary thing. Well, in a way it is. Low mass means you have heat transfer, high mass means you don't. Very counter-intuitive. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Saturnus said: Not arguing that at all. Merely pointing out that heat transfer isn't a simple binary thing. Indeed it is not simple at all, not just a simple binary thing That is why I hope this calculator will help other people who struggled like me to properly predict temperature changes in ONI Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1103968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivzaire Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 you can also try the online calculator in this website https://thermtest.com/thermal-resources/conduction-calculator Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1111223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 As far I know ONI uses some custom algorithms to count conduction. It is of course based on real formula, but has some exceptions. That is why I didn't want to include this in my calculator as I was certain it will not give corresponding to ingame results. So probably the calculator you mentioned also will not always give correct results. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1111729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 On 10/26/2018 at 9:51 AM, Saturnus said: Is there heat transfer between a tile of 200kg 2000K magma to a sandstone insulated tile? If yes, then the calculator is correct. Is there heat transfer between a tile of 2000kg 2000K magma to a sandstone insulated tile? If yes, then the calculator is incorrect. On 10/26/2018 at 9:58 AM, Saturnus said: Not arguing that at all. Merely pointing out that heat transfer isn't a simple binary thing. Well, in a way it is. Low mass means you have heat transfer, high mass means you don't. Very counter-intuitive. What you talkin' 'bout Willis? How the hell can a full tile of magma not heat a tile it is touching? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1111869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, psusi said: What you talkin' 'bout Willis? How the hell can a full tile of magma not heat a tile it is touching? As already mentioned above. It is proven here Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1111875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, Saturnus said: As already mentioned above. It is proven here That is FUBAR. Wow. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1111902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 I updated the calculator so now it can count how many wheezworts are needed to cool down given material during one second. I noticed many people asking about it and having hard time to figure it out. Now you can calculate this easily. Additionally calculation results can now be shared as a link. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97504-oni-heat-calculator/#findComment-1112747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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