Made a little Tutorial / Review

[EdmonEdmon]

Hey guys,

Been a while since I last posted. A friend of mine has been meaning to get into this game for a long while now. So I made her a little review/tutorial. I thought you guys might also like it, but I'm not sure what your policies are on linking youtube videos on the forums. So this is sort of my pilot thread. If you like this and you want me to make more stuff, then please let me know.

Oh, and sorry for the umming in the beginning, the current summer heat is murdering my throat lol.

https://youtu.be/hvLvZQk2BQY

[Oozinator]

Many mistakes. I would not suggest this to a beginner, leads to frustration quick.
Hypothermia in that early game, could slow down anything for some cycles.
No drop point for PW / PD from outhouses.
Germs could be quick a problem.
Slimelung is dangerous early game, without deodorizers yes..

[EdmonEdmon]

44 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Many mistakes. I would not suggest this to a beginner, leads to frustration quick.
Hypothermia in that early game, could slow down anything for some cycles.
No drop point for PW / PD from outhouses.
Germs could be quick a problem.
Slimelung is dangerous early game, without deodorizers yes..

There is nothing wrong with this start, I have used it many times to get to over 1000 cycles.

The hypothermia was caused by a dupe losing the plot and falling into a body of water, a situation which was carefully recovered with no lasting damage to the base or the dupes. I left it in because new players need to know how to recover from such mistakes without starting again.

Your other stuff listed here is not true and was taken care of... so I can only suggest you skimmed the video? Both polluted water and compositing was addressed in the last 3-4 minutes. Likewise, your slimelung comment makes no sense, I spent the best part of a minute explaining why expanding early should be avoided and slimelung was specifically given as a reason...

In short, I don't get your feedback, because it does not match the content of my video.

[Oozinator]

1 hour ago, EdmonEdmon said:

There is nothing wrong with this start, I have used it many times to get to over 1000 cycles.

The hypothermia was caused by a dupe losing the plot and falling into a body of water, a situation which was carefully recovered with no lasting damage to the base or the dupes. I left it in because new players need to know how to recover from such mistakes without starting again.

Your other stuff listed here is not true and was taken care of... so I can only suggest you skimmed the video? Both polluted water and compositing was addressed in the last 3-4 minutes. Likewise, your slimelung comment makes no sense, I spent the best part of a minute explaining why expanding early should be avoided and slimelung was specifically given as a reason...

In short, I don't get your feedback, because it does not match the content of my video.

 

[blash365]

I just watched the first half of your video, so forgive me if i missed some tips that you provided in the second half. It is also a nice attempt, so i hope i sound too negative about your video.

 

I think you are omitting alot of information that you take for granted and that really belong into a first-time tutorial.

"You can see there is gas in the game". Where? you just move your mouse somewhere and expect the viewers to read the tooltip. Do you really think a newbie would have gotten that part? Maybe mention that the huge colorful clouds are oxygen and then show at least one other gas that is clearly visible in another part of the screen and say that there are also different gases and they can mix.

You also insert a few mid-game concepts very early. When you build your first ladder you are already mentioning poles. Why? Do the first-timers really need that information in the first 5 minutes of learning the game?

Why do you place the ladder 1 tile away from the floor and not 2? Might there be a reason for it?

Why disallow nutricent bars? Is that really necessary for a first-timer?

You are also building your bedrooms in snorer size (or maybe for sculptures, i dont know). But you dont give any reason for (momentarily) wasting 50% of the roomspace.

Also, why is your room height 4 tiles? Might there be a specific reason for it?

 

While the clean-up recommendation might not be wrong, it is certainly not necessary. I rarely cleanup my base and it rarely has any impact on my dupes moods. It's a good filler information but it might be a bit early to introduce the decor concept. The dupes dont even have any beds yet.

 

Also i am afraid that building 8 algae terrariums to produce oxygen for 3 dupes is simply incorrect. From what i understand they consume co2 (and water) and convert it into o2 (and pw). So without co2, you wont produce any o2.

Since 3 dupes only produce 100 g/s co2, you can barely keep one of the terrariums running.

Side-notes:

Oxylite doesnt disappear, it vaporizes into oxygen.

I'd start with researching the jobboard to allow dupes to take up a profession as early as possible.

[EdmonEdmon]

12 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

 

Your posting history is extremely negative, confrontational and it seems to be highly inaccurate, yet communicated like it is advice so great that it is beneath everyone else to question it. Yet, you have nearly 2,000 posts. Is this forum not moderated?

I am just wondering before I open the portal to that /darkplace/ and throw you in there :). It's been a while since I was on this forum, but it used to be quite nice so I am just wondering.

1 minute ago, blash365 said:

I think you are omitting alot of information that you take for granted and that really belong into a first-time tutorial.

"You can see there is gas in the game". Where? you just move your mouse somewhere and expect the viewers to read the tooltip. Do you really think a newbie would have gotten that part? Maybe mention that the huge colorful clouds are oxygen and then show at least one other gas that is clearly visible in another part of the screen and say that there are also different gases and they can mix.

You also insert a few mid-game concepts very early. When you build your first ladder you are already mentioning poles. Why? Do the first-timers really need that information in the first 5 minutes of learning the game?

Why do you place the ladder 1 tile away from the floor and not 2? Might there be a reason for it?

Why disallow nutricent bars? Is that really necessary for a first-timer?

You are also building your bedrooms in snorer size (or maybe for sculptures, i dont know). But you dont give any reason for (momentarily) wasting 50% of the roomspace.

Also, why is your room height 4 tiles? Might there be a specific reason for it?

 

While the clean-up recommendation might not be wrong, it is certainly not necessary. I rarely cleanup my base and it rarely has any impact on my dupes moods. It's a good filler information but it might be a bit early to introduce the decor concept. The dupes dont even have any beds yet.

Side-notes:

Oxylite doesnt disappear, it vaporizes into oxygen.

I'd start with researching the jobboard to allow dupes to take up a profession as early as possible.

The tutorial simply allows someone to make a base that would last a good 150-200 cycles without any real issues and allows players to open up the ability to research technologies.

A lot of your questions are answered later on, since the beginning obviously focuses on getting the base running in the time allowed before the basics start to become an issue (food, oxygen, CO posioning, etc).

The tutorial is kept simple in the beginning "build this, we'll explain why later" style, as it is just meant to be a start. I find that giving too much detail, too early and too quickly overloads the type of player that needs a tutorial. Plus I made this with someone in mind, who also would find such overdetail overloading.

But thanks for your detailed feedback :).

 

[BadlyBurned]

7 minutes ago, EdmonEdmon said:

Your posting history is extremely negative, confrontational and it seems to be highly inaccurate, yet communicated like it is advice so great that it is beneath everyone else to question it. Yet, you have nearly 2,000 posts. Is this forum not moderated?

I am just wondering before I open the portal to that /darkplace/ and throw you in there :). It's been a while since I was on this forum, but it used to be quite nice so I am just wondering.

Don't take it seriously. You posted it here because you wanted people's reactions, its not your fault that some players have like a million hours and won't find it helpful or will find a thousand problems with it.

Oozinator is sometimes a little blunt, but he doesn't call you an idiot or fool or anything. Its nothing personal. He just didn't like it and found some problems that you might want to know about. Albeit, he should maybe work on his bedside manner lol

You making a joke about throwing him in a darkplace is much more toxic than him pointing out things he saw wrong in your video. Just being honest

I'll watch it when I got off work, glad you're giving making videos a shot. Keep it up.

[Kabrute]

8 minutes ago, EdmonEdmon said:

Is this forum not moderated?

Yes but only with regards to specifics involving the TOS, so long as that isn't violated folks have a great deal of leeway, however, throwing someone in the dark place is arbitrary because you still get to see "<name> has posted a reply, click here to show it" which makes block more or less "talk to the hand"

 

[blash365]

8 minutes ago, EdmonEdmon said:

Plus I made this with someone in mind, who also would find such overdetail overloading.

Hence my remark "why mention poles in minute 5".

It seems you didnt make your mind up of including advanced techniques, leaving them out, explaining them or just hinting them.

You also asked for feedback, but you dont need to get defensive about it. We are just providing you what you asked for. Ultimately you have got to know what to put into your videos, we dont care too much to be honest.;)

[EdmonEdmon]

Just now, blash365 said:

Hence my remark "why mention poles in minute 5".

It seems you didnt make your mind up of including advanced techniques, leaving them out, explaining them or just hinting them.

You also asked for feedback, but you dont need to get defensive about it. We are just providing you what you asked for. Ultimately you have got to know what to put into your videos, we dont care too much to be honest.;)

The advice is to leave spaces for things you might need to install later. An example was given of such an item. That's all that bit of advice was meant to be :). I thought it was clear but I guess not.

[blash365]

1 minute ago, EdmonEdmon said:

The advice is to leave spaces for things you might need to install later. An example was given of such an item. That's all that bit of advice was meant to be :). I thought it was clear but I guess not.

I guess i didnt pay full attention at that bit. I retract the part about poles. You got my blessing for keeping your youtube video uploaded.

[Oozinator]

Just now, EdmonEdmon said:

 I thought it was clear but I guess not.

oops

[EdmonEdmon]

2 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

oops

I am the first to admit that I am wrong or not clear enough, when the situation warrants it :).

Having read some number of your posts to get a feel of what you've said around here, I suggest you should try it sometime ;).

[blash365]

One tip for you: there is actually an autoharvest tool, which allows you to quickly enable autoharvesting of plants without clicking 2 times for every plant.

Took me ~300 game hours just to see it casually mentioned here on the forum. You can always learn new stuff.

[EdmonEdmon]

Just now, blash365 said:

One tip for you: there is actually an autoharvest tool, which allows you to quickly enable autoharvesting of plants without clicking 2 times for every plant.

Took me ~300 game hours just to see it casually mentioned here on the forum. You can always learn new stuff.

Oh awesome, yeah there is always something new to learn with games as complex as this.

A lot of my friends just ended up dying 15 cycles in or so, so they don't get the time to play around and discover things.

I remember it took me eons to learn, when the game first game out, you could rotate things. I am not sure there was a tool tip for it back then and I didn't really have any need to rotate something, so I never did XD.

[blash365]

You can also press a (invisible) button in the option menu and the game turns into 3d mode.

[EdmonEdmon]

3 minutes ago, blash365 said:

You can also press a (invisible) button in the option menu and the game turns into 3d mode.

Looks like a game I don't recognise with ONI's hud pasted over it. What game is that, it looks really familar.

[blash365]

PA. And it's not the ONI hud. It's the PA hud.

For some reason it didnt take the full resolution link.

[EdmonEdmon]

1 minute ago, blash365 said:

PA. And it's not the ONI hud. It's the PA hud.

For some reason it didnt take the full resolution link.

I played that ages go, it was desperately buggy and crashed a lot so I never went back to it. I knew it looked familar

[blash365]

It is really good and was released about a year ago. I also had no crashes so far, so your experiences might be outdated.

ONI took its spot as one of the best early access titles.

[EdmonEdmon]

Yeah, I have tons of EA titles but very few were worth playing out of the gate. Other than this game, I think Rimworld is probably the only other one that's really impressed. Maybe factorio as well. At least, from the moment they came out.

[Oozinator]

[Mr.Trueba]

Hello friends!
You know? I think people have weird ideas on how to do a tutorial for beginners.
No mood to offend, and I do not consider myself a pro in this game, but many "teach" things that in reality do not serve much (or at least not the majority of new).

Partner, owner of the post, why do not you consider re-doing your tutorial really explaining things well. As they mention, it is important to say why you think it is good to put space between the stairs and the floor, why rooms of 4 height and all those things.

I do not know, there are many things that I do not agree with and that are extremely noobs to me, like creating the work table until cycle 12. And I repeat, I do not say it to offend you.

What things are really important?
Maybe explain how electricity works, oxygen pressure, how temperature moves, what things are more important to investigate, what foods should be done, how to make rooms that can be improved later, how to assign priorities to avoid all post titled "my dupes are stupid and do nothing ", how to deal with the slime, how to get out of the initial biome, whether it is necessary to build a CO2 filter or not, how to use coal generators with basic logic circuits, etc.

There are very important things that all leave aside because they forgot when they were also new.
So my recommendation is that if you want to do a totorial, really think about what it's like to be a new player.

And finally, do not be offended by the criticism. If you read the answers in other posts of everyone who answered you here, they are all friendly and like to cooperate. They simply gave their point of view which if you do not like it is not their problem, it is yours.

Good luck!

 

@Kabrute @Oozinator We should make a post for really new people!
You have much more experience, of course, but I would contribute still feeling what it is to be a noob and not knowing anything, hahaha.
Something like solving answers to all titles of aggressive post as 'my dupes are stupid ',' morality is stupid ',' I'm dying of heat ', I finished the water', 'how a smart battery works' etc.
It would be good, right?
I think that is what is needed, because there is a post of everything, less than the most basic things.  

[EdmonEdmon]

Thanks for your feedback.

The goal is not to make a base as quickly, effectively or efficiently as possible, nor explain it in exacting detail.

The goal is to make a simple base in a simple way, that buys time for new players to experiment with the game and to allow them to research the basic technologies that allow them to get involved with the games systems.

Some of what you've said is covered in a basic way, but what I'm really looking for is feedback on anything that might be missing or could be done more simply.

Most of the feedback is about adding more detail, but I actually want to keep the detail to the least possible, while getting people into the game enough that they'll want to discover the rest of the game themselves.

[Kabrute]

Last time I tried to build a tutorial all was well until I invited open feedback, then the "why this and not that" tirades started and I wasn't in the mood.  I've been playing lowkey lately but I think I have some good advice to toss in. Everything is a button  Exploit the bleep out of rooms.  You can run a base on liceloaf with tier 2 scientist if you exploit every room option.(without a rec room).  plan everything out well ahead, the moment you are playing catchup you've already lost.  Atleast on fatalist/Miserable.  Save often, load as necessary.  Its your game, play it the way that makes you happy.  These little guys have their own lives but that doesn't mean you are bound by anyone's rules for how to keep them living.
These things cause lag

Autosweepers

Automation loops(especially fast ones)

Pathfinding Loops