Making and storing Liquid Oxygen

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

ok, how are you cooling your regulators then? or are you just using lox to cool po2 now that you have enough?

the temp shift plates seems to keep the regulators cool, I have a temp sensor next to the top regulator that will turn on the pump below once it reaches 15C or above.  It's been a few cycles and it hasn't turned on yet as the temp shift plates warm up very slowly.

And the temp sensor at the bottom closes the door once it reaches 10C or above to cool the water

I haven't used the LOX for anything yet, I just been storing it in the tank on the far right

[Kabrute]

yet every loop from one side to the other is carrying lox temps from the lox to the po2 thats the critical mass I was talking about, you don't need the tuners at all at this point just get the lox deeper than the rails max height once that happens your system will be self cycling.

[Lifegrow]

Got the save file @Neotuck? I'm wondering how well this stands up over time - looking at the regulators more than anything.

[Kabrute]

you are actively using the lox to cool po2 down to lox and at this point you could feed it po2 at 50c you have so much lox built up the thermal inertia alone would liquify it in short order.

congrats

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Kabrute said:

you are actively using the lox to cool po2 down to lox and at this point you could feed it po2 at 50c you have so much lox built up the thermal inertia alone would liquify it in short order.

I changed the temp sensor to pre cool the PO2 to -100C 

[Kabrute]

this is what I meant

[Neotuck]

7 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

Got the save file @Neotuck? I'm wondering how well this stands up over time - looking at the regulators more than anything.

I'm curious how long the regulators will last too, I'm at cycle 240 and I plan to keep it running all night.  I'll post tomorrow how well they hold up and how many cycles it's been  

[Kabrute]

but yeah I know what your saying, but have you noticed the lox raining from higher in the chamber as your buffer built up?

[Neotuck]

3 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

but yeah I know what your saying, but have you noticed the lox raining from higher in the chamber as your buffer built up?

possibly, I just debugged mopped the LOX and after waiting a cycle the LOX rain is still at the same lvl

[Kasuha]

7 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I may be missing something obvious here, but why does that even work? There is nothing that destroys heat in this design and several things that generate heat. Is this bug-using or is this just very slow to heat up and gives the appearance of working?

The design is not about destroying heat. The heat is displaced on the thermo regulators and it's assumed the player will use their preferred way of handling that heat. The point of the design is achieving and maintaining temperature at which the oxygen condenses.

My personal preferred way of handling the heat on regulators or aquatuners used to condense gases is using them to heat the gas up to normal temperature. For oxygen it works since polluted, liquid, and clean oxygen have almost identical heat capacity. 

 

[Neotuck]

I updated my design last night.

I added a 5th regulator 

The cold hydrogen pipe is used as a radiator now

The LOX also is used as a radiator

I deleted the LOX in the tank and replaced all the hydrogen and started over with fresh 45C hydrogen to start the cooling process all over

150 cycles had passed when I took the screenshots

[PrincessOdet]

Neotuck is this what you need to do for every resources in the game? And does it need to be this big to store liquid oxygen? Could you do something smaller that you would seen being done in a game? Sorry for silly question! 

[suicide commando]

Impressive setup, but why are you not just using diamond temp shift plates with a metal wall adjacent to the pO2 chamber, and run hydrogen through a radiator pipe?
Sure this is a novel way of doing it, but I don't see the benefit of it.

Oh and yes, aquatuners are awesome for making liquid O2 once you get yourself a good supply of it through other means. They suck out that heat Sooo well.

 

[Neotuck]

2 hours ago, PrincessOdet said:

Neotuck is this what you need to do for every resources in the game?

no just liquid oxygen 

1 hour ago, suicide commando said:

but why are you not just using diamond temp shift plates with a metal wall adjacent to the pO2 chamber, and run hydrogen through a radiator pipe?

solids transmit heat faster than gas or liquids which is why I use a diamond radiator, and temp shift plates disperse heat evenly making overall heating and cooling slower

1 hour ago, suicide commando said:

Oh and yes, aquatuners are awesome for making liquid O2 once you get yourself a good supply of it through other means. They suck out that heat Sooo well.

true, I was looking for an energy efficient option 

[Kasuha]

2 hours ago, PrincessOdet said:

Could you do something smaller that you would seen being done in a game?

You can definitely build much smaller oxygen condenser than this, but that would be a different design. 

[Gurgel]

16 hours ago, Kabrute said:

the water that leaves the pool runs through an aquatuner buried in more than 2 layers deep of the same liquid, this destroys heat because no liquid can be warmer than the liquid above it, after 2 layers deep it deletes heat. 

Thanks, that was the thing I was unaware of. The design makes sense now.

[PrincessOdet]

On 4/19/2018 at 12:13 AM, Kasuha said:

You can definitely build much smaller oxygen condenser than this, but that would be a different design. 

 

On 4/19/2018 at 12:08 AM, Neotuck said:

no just liquid oxygen 

solids transmit heat faster than gas or liquids which is why I use a diamond radiator, and temp shift plates disperse heat evenly making overall heating and cooling slower

true, I was looking for an energy efficient option 

Thank you I asked a silly question since what neo did was in debug mode been learning!  I am learning!

[Carnis]

This system seems overly complex For what it does.

A cool hydrogen radiator with 1kg packets looped between Pipe bridges can produce same effect.

The most efficient coolants are polluted water/aquatuner until -19 degrees, then methane (liquid natural gas) up until - 175 degrees. Then its cooled hydrogen again.

Conveyor.. really just overcomplication.

PWater/aq tuner = 10kg x 6J x 14 K = 840kW heat transfer/1200w power

Methane/aq tuner = 10kg x 2.191J x 14K = 306kW heat transfer/1200w power

Hydrogen/5x regulator = 5x 1kg x 2.4 x 14K = 168kW heat transfer/1200w Power

Liquid ox/aq tuner = 10kg x 1.005J x 14K = 140,7kW heat transfer.

------------------

So any high scale Lox machine should run on methane! It IS highly unstable though so watch out.

[Neotuck]

9 hours ago, Carnis said:

This system seems overly complex For what it does.

what's complicated about using a cold hydrogen room to cool LOX using a conveyor? 

9 hours ago, Carnis said:

A cool hydrogen radiator with 1kg packets looped between Pipe bridges can produce same effect.

True but the heat transfer rate is much slower and that will effect the rate you can make LOX

9 hours ago, Carnis said:

The most efficient coolants are polluted water/aquatuner until -19 degrees, then methane (liquid natural gas) up until - 175 degrees. Then its cooled hydrogen again.

A 3 step cooling process? How is that simpler than my one step?  Also yours uses a lot of power

9 hours ago, Carnis said:

So any high scale Lox machine should run on methane! It IS highly unstable though so watch out.

prove it

[Carnis]

8 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

what's complicated about using a cold hydrogen room to cool LOX using a conveyor? 

True but the heat transfer rate is much slower and that will effect the rate you can make LOX

A 3 step cooling process? How is that simpler than my one step?  Also yours uses a lot of power

prove it

This 1step process uses 2 thermoregulators. 1 is on 100% of The Time The other is linked to a thermometer at -214 and runs 50% of the time. 360watts.

We are feeding 60 celsius infected pO2 vent and a radiator system liquifies it within a cycle. So why conveyor?

 

 

[Kasuha]

13 hours ago, Carnis said:

So any high scale Lox machine should run on methane! It IS highly unstable though so watch out.

Sadly the methane freezing temperature is above liquid oxygen boiling point and to stay safe you can only keep it about 14 K above that. You still need liquid oxygen or hydrogen to travel the last mile.

4 hours ago, Neotuck said:

A 3 step cooling process? How is that simpler than my one step?  Also yours uses a lot of powe

It's hard to tell but I would guess your process is a 4-step one. First you cool hydrogen in the chamber, then you cool the conveyor, and you also cool the polluted oxygen in two steps. So I would not consider @Carnis' approach any more complicated than yours.

[Carnis]

Kasuha I'm confident we can run methane at +1-2K above freezing (after leaving the aquatuner), since the incoming gas is constantly warming the methane. If this radiator runs overpressured, it can be emptied to a hydrogen radiator without pumps. The hydrogen radiator shedded about 40K / cycle, I expect the methane to warm slower due to volume. Overpressuring The chamber will probably enable quite exact temperature control on the methane radiator temp. We could then average it close to +8 K above freezing.

Regardless my point was If you size your radiator correctly a piped hydrogen system can handle infinite volume of polluted oxygen and the real limitation comes from your regulator capacity, which can Be mathematically predicted.

That radiator is from survival mode and relatively small. We produce about 120litres of Lox/cycle and The limiting factor is pO2 vent output. We broke about 30 gaspipes while calibrating as The temperature measurement is quite slow (iron meter on hydrogen -- tungsten in chlorine would probable work better).