Speed up 0 athletic dupes

[Coolthulhu]

Duplicants with 0 athletics are just plain too slow. They spend most of their time walking around (slowly) instead of working, even in a very well designed base.

Athletics skill is too important. Anemics are pretty much never worth it, 0 athletics dupes are very bad, even +2 already does wonders.

On the other hand, gofers and couriers could use a nerf. They're amazing at all they do and they're usually the most important dupes around. They finish non-courier jobs faster than dedicated dupes, except for massive batch jobs like mass cooking, mining abyssalite, building giant sections of insulated or mesh tiles etc.

[Oozinator]

1 hour ago, Coolthulhu said:

On the other hand, gofers and couriers could use a nerf.

lol sure, more nerfs!

[Saturnus]

Maybe have gofers get +2 for holding the job, and when mastered get a permanent +1 to their skill. Courier get +4 for holding the job, and when mastered a permanent additional +2 to their skill.

In fact this is how I think it should work for all job types and all skills

Won't that mean that people will just have dupes be gofers to start with and then move them on to other positions? Yes, it will but that's pretty realistic, you have the student job that requires some physical fitness, and then you move on in life. I don't see it as a bad thing. It will also solve the problem of trained and master miners suddenly being horrible at mining just because they've moved on to another job. I mean sure, they might not have the best tools available but you'd think that at least some of the training would stick.

[Oozinator]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

a permanent additional +2 to their skill.

Wow, level 2 athletics in endgame!
Some stuff reminds me about the chocolate rationing in GO 1984 these days..
^^

[Saturnus]

In any case, athletics should be tweaked a bit up so the baseline would be as was 3-4ish before but without adjusting carrying capacity. 

[Oozinator]

 

22 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

In any case, athletics should be tweaked a bit up so the baseline would be as was 3-4ish before but without adjusting carrying capacity. 

I have no clue where oni ends in mapsize/objectives, but that hat-thing suggests small bases, with fixed max dupecount. Expansion is slowed down. Where is the positive addition with hats? All i see/hear are limitations to the prepatch ONI.
For example robot arms. First you have to build tubes, where the robots should be, then start to build there, or dupes will never reach. First tubes (energy for the station) and then robot- repeat. ONI lost some creative freedom, if you ask me..

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Oozinator said:

ONI lost some creative freedom, if you ask me..

Definitely agree.  

[Coolthulhu]

59 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Won't that mean that people will just have dupes be gofers to start with and then move them on to other positions? Yes, it will but that's pretty realistic

Realism is a tiny advantage. Tedium of having to shuffle jobs is a major disadvantage.

The current system of manually setting dupes to very specific specializations and manually controlling their advancement is the worst part about the update. The manual UI needs to be fixed before any changes like this.

I could see some sort of "achievement" system, like "dug 1000 points of total hardness, +2 dig", as long as it required no per-dupe player input. But I'd prefer the current system of having dupes only be skilled when in a skilled role, because it makes starting stats matter more and works well with food and decor requirements.

[Oozinator]

Just now, Coolthulhu said:

.works well with food and decor requirements.

Are you talking about the farming buff for mastery?
I don't get it, why that should be handy? Some time ago dupes leveled up while farming, was cool/permanent without any macro..
Hats give a nice visual addition, but i don't like the rest of it.

[Saturnus]

6 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Realism is a tiny advantage. Tedium of having to shuffle jobs is a major disadvantage.

I was not trying to expand the current meta.

I'm of the opinion dupe should have a career path goal by default that you can change. All promotions etc should be automatic in the background so the dupes are automatically promoted to the next tier if there is room for them.

[Coolthulhu]

2 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Some time ago dupes leveled up while farming, was cool/permanent without any macro

The problem with that was that dupes quickly became masters of everything. There was no need to specialize, dupes differed mostly by looks and not by skills.

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

All promotions etc should be automatic in the background so the dupes are automatically promoted to the next tier if there is room for them.

Could work, though it would be good to allow some dupes to stay unskilled. Similar to how research menu works, except with dupe roles.

[Oozinator]

8 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

The problem with that was that dupes quickly became masters of everything. There was no need to specialize, dupes differed mostly by looks and not by skills.

When every dupe refuses to do 4 jobs and every 5th level xp for levelup is +100% needed, why should it be bad, when at cycle 1000 everyone is an expert in his jobs? Distances are adding up lategame. When tubes and exos are the only option for expansion, then they are no more an option, they became a rule..
Edit: (bad rusty english) ^^
 

[Saturnus]

5 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

When every dupe refuses to do 4 jobs and every 5th level xp for levelup is +100% needed, why should it be bad, when at cycle 1000 everyone is an expert in his jobs? Distances are adding up lategame. When tubes and exos are the only option for expansion, they are no more an option, they are a rule..

In my most recent game I went without making beds and dining tables for the dupes at all, spread out fridges and bathrooms all over the place in pockets with localized air supply and just cure the resulting sore backs with massage tables. That so far has been the best solution to a problem that should not exist.

[Oozinator]

Just now, Saturnus said:

In my most recent game I went without making beds and dining tables for the dupes at all, spread out fridges and bathroom all over the place  in pockets with localized air supply and just cure the resulting sore backs with massage tables. That so far has been the bast solution to a problem that should not exist.

Sounds like fun..
You found a creative niche, to "exploit" the system.
With next update, dupes get -10 Athletics for 10 cycles, when they don't rest in a nice bedroom. After cycle 50 they want plastic beds for the night, or they get a -5 for 20 cycles (stacking effect!)

[Saturnus]

Just now, Oozinator said:

Sounds like fun..
You found a creative niche, to "exploit" the system.
With next update, dupes get -10 Athletics for 10 cycles, when they don't rest in a nice bedroom. After cycle 50 they want plastic beds for the night, or they get a -5 for 20 cycles (stacking effect!)

Then beds and mess tables should reset the dupe assignment when the foundation is removed so I can just reset the beds every morning.

[Oozinator]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Then beds and mess tables should reset the dupe assignment when the foundation is removed so I can just reset the beds every morning.

You have to remove the foundation of the dupe, to reset his stats. The bed is standing most times and needs no athletics buff..
^^

[Saturnus]

3 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

You have to remove the foundation of the dupe, to reset his stats. The bed is standing most times and needs no athletics buff..
^^

But in all seriousness. Why are beds and mess tables automatically assigned to that particular dupe when they first use it without the player assigning it? Dupes should go use the first available bed and mess table unless assigned a specific bed or mess table to use.

While athletics was super high, it wasn't a problem. Dupes would just run back to base to go to bed. But now it is a big problem if you want to explore a bit because dupes are so slow they'll never make it back to base for bed and back, and do anything useful before they have to rush back to eat at their precious assigned mess table. 

[Oozinator]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

But in all seriousness. ..Dupes should go use the first available bed and mess table unless assigned a specific bed or mess table to use.

No one wants to sleep in Stinkys bed, mae and Meep are eating booger!
Hmm when they would choose free, loud sleepers could be problematic. When you set a bed for the LS and the others are free to choose ok, but i don't really see a problem there. Tables ok, but who wants to share a bed? Could give a negative trait, when sleeping in "backpacker mode".

 

[Saturnus]

9 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

No one wants to sleep in Stinkys bed, mae and Meep are eating booger!
Hmm when they would choose free, loud sleepers could be problematic. When you set a bed for the LS and the others are free to choose ok, but i don't really see a problem there. Tables ok, but who wants to share a bed? Could give a negative trait, when sleeping in "backpacker mode".

As I often say: I prefer carrots to sticks. Having an assigned bed in a nice room already gives a perk and bonus why not just leave it at that. No assigned bed, no room bonus. And comfy beds obviously has to be assigned a specific dupe.

[Coolthulhu]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Having an assigned bed in a nice room already gives a perk and bonus why not just leave it at that.

The problem is, you don't need this bonus. Dupes regain more stamina during the "night" than they lose during the "day". In fact, running to the bed can cause more stamina loss than just sleeping on the spot.

[Saturnus]

10 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

The problem is, you don't need this bonus. Dupes regain more stamina during the "night" than they lose during the "day". In fact, running to the bed can cause more stamina loss than just sleeping on the spot.

That's what I found, and then just have some massage tables to cure the sore backs when they happen.

[Kabrute]

I was just fixing to start testing this

[Ichikai]

Athletics Not Included.

Quote

 

ANI

Because I'm too slow.

 

 

[BlueLance]

16 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Maybe have gofers get +2 for holding the job, and when mastered get a permanent +1 to their skill. Courier get +4 for holding the job, and when mastered a permanent additional +2 to their skill.

In fact this is how I think it should work for all job types and all skills

Won't that mean that people will just have dupes be gofers to start with and then move them on to other positions? Yes, it will but that's pretty realistic, you have the student job that requires some physical fitness, and then you move on in life. I don't see it as a bad thing. It will also solve the problem of trained and master miners suddenly being horrible at mining just because they've moved on to another job. I mean sure, they might not have the best tools available but you'd think that at least some of the training would stick.

This would actually complete this update IMO, You spent all of that time training them you should ideally get a permanent reward. Like you said, a miner without his tools still has his knowledge.

[Ichikai]

44 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

This would actually complete this update IMO, You spent all of that time training them you should ideally get a permanent reward. Like you said, a miner without his tools still has his knowledge.

What if all he ever did was run on a hamster wheel the whole time he had the miner job, and gained mastery that way? Where does that knowledge come from?