Getting sand from dirt automatically without player interaction

[Zarquan]

This conversation is hoping to continue the tangent from the following thread about how to get sand out of dirt without having to dig it or place a dig order.  Heating the sand isn't too difficult, but it always appears to form a block that needs to be dug rather than an item that the dupes can build up.  The issue revolved around constantly digging it (losing half the mass) or finding a sustainable method that can stop the sand from forming the block. 

@Kabrute has a method that works involving dropping the dirt in to polluted water.  As I understand, it changes state as its falling and forms a block that can be picked up at the bottom.  It sounds like it could be effective, but I am concerned about the stability of such a system, as the polluted water could all boil away, which could make the system difficult to calibrate in the long term.  His system sounds nice, as you get all the sand out of it and dupes don't need to handle 300C sand.  I would like to see a picture of his system.

I have a method that will automatically dig the sand by placing a build order that can not be built due to a missing foundation.  They will keep digging the sand, but they will not build the structure because they can't.  This, unfortunately, loses half the sand and the sand is not cooled down, which could lead to scalding temperatures in the base, but there are no stability issues that I can think of relating to the actual production of sand. 

[manu_x32]

Thanks for making a thread for this.   I don't think Kabrute said he actually had a solution already, I think he was just thinking out loud.    (unless I missed a post somewhere). 

For now I keep using Rock granulator for sand production, but I really hope we find a reliable dirt-->sand solution.

[Saturnus]

12 minutes ago, manu_x32 said:

For now I keep using Rock granulator for sand production, but I really hope we find a reliable dirt-->sand solution.

The solution posted above actually is reliable and completely automatic, if a bit cheeky, relying on non-constructable buildings to dig the sand. The mass loss is in this case acceptable as the need for sand is very low to none in a highly developed base so just the very principle of a sustainable source is key, not the actual amount produced. 

[manu_x32]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

The solution posted above actually is reliable and completely automatic, if a bit cheeky, relying on non-constructable buildings to dig the sand. The mass loss is in this case acceptable as the need for sand is very low to none in a highly developed base so just the very principle of a sustainable source is key not the actual amount produced. 

I'm not sure I fully get that solution.  You just wait till your boiler fills with sand and then place a build order in the middle of the sand tiles where you know there won't be a floor after the sand is dug out, is that it? I guess you would need to build your boiler in a special way for this, when mine fills with sand tiles, in can cover a large area and end up covering the liquid vents. Not sure it will let me place a build order over the sand tiles that cover the vents, maybe?  And I would need to place build orders over the whole area that can be covered by sand, which is my case seemed a bit random. 

You guys have a working example of this?

[Zarquan]

The build order is already there and never goes away.  When sand falls on the build order, the dupes come by and clean it up.  Then they leave because they can't build the building because it is missing a foundation.  If you use debug mode, you can put the build order for a cot down, dig out one of the two floor blocks, and then paint sand above the other block (the one you did not dig out).  The dupes keep trying to build the cot and mine the sand without the player having to do anything.

[Saturnus]

And if you make the floor of the boiler a sideways door you can have it open whenever dupes are allowed to go in to dig out the sand making the build order above have a missing foundation. And when all sand is picked up. The doors are activated again and you can cook a new batch of sand.

I'm not saying it'd be easy to build but the principle is sound.

[The Flying Fox]

I suppose this depends on if you're using the water sieve or not, but technically, you could get your sand back, in full, if you're only using the deodorizers.  The clay can be heated into ceramic which can then be melted into magma, which can then pour into a tank of water, or there abouts.  Of course, this depends on abusing the tepidizer, but to each their own.  I will note that I only had time to melt a 500KG batch of clay, then separately tested pouring more magma into the chamber to make sure that it would flow properly and then develop regular chunks of materials when it poured into the water.  No blocked formed that I could see so it could be automated and you get 100% of the clay into igneous rock, which can then be converted into sand.

 

 

And yes, that is a vapor switch to (sorta) detect if the temperature is getting too high.  If that 1KG of magma converts to rock gas then the doors open and the tepidizer is cut off from power.  Preventing the unit from over-heating while also preventing too much heat from seeping back through the tepidizer when it's not running.  You could, if you wanted too, put in a weight plate in there as well and detect if the magma converted into 1KG of igneous rock, letting you know if it was getting too cold.  

[Saturnus]

5 hours ago, The Flying Fox said:

I suppose this depends on if you're using the water sieve or not, but technically, you could get your sand back, in full, if you're only using the deodorizers.  The clay can be heated into ceramic which can then be melted into magma, which can then pour into a tank of water, or there abouts.  Of course, this depends on abusing the tepidizer, but to each their own.  I will note that I only had time to melt a 500KG batch of clay, then separately tested pouring more magma into the chamber to make sure that it would flow properly and then develop regular chunks of materials when it poured into the water.  No blocked formed that I could see so it could be automated and you get 100% of the clay into igneous rock, which can then be converted into sand.

The igneous rock would still need to be dug up which leads us back to the question on how to make a system that automates a dig order without any interaction from the player that is the premise of the thread.

[Kabrute]

as the magma hits here it starts leaking across the pool, spalling off in small chunks, already mined, as it spalls backwards, if you shut it off or it has to cycle, that puddle gets to small to be a block before cooling and poof is also a pickable item.....

[Saturnus]

8 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

as the magma hits here it starts leaking across the pool, spalling off in small chunks, already mined, as it spalls backwards, if you shut it off or it has to cycle, that puddle gets to small to be a block before cooling and poof is also a pickable item.....

Oh, neat. Seems like might be a fiddly system but if it works who cares.

[Zarquan]

I like the magma system. I hadn't thought of recovering clay back to sand.  The one downside is that it requires much higher temperatures than burning to sand, which is more energy.  I think it might be easier to liquefy water than it would be to produce that much heat.

@Saturnus, your scheme for clearing the sand is nice, but is more complicated than it needs to be.  There is no need for automation.  You can do it without any tech (other than the tech needed to burn the dirt).  In my image, they will clear sand on the foundation block that is there.  What you do is you place the building, then dig out the block under it before the building is built.

[Saturnus]

15 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

@Saturnus, your scheme for clearing the sand is nice, but is more complicated than it needs to be. 

I was demonstrating the basic principle an automated sand production kiln. I thought that was obvious. I apologize for not making that clear.

[manu_x32]

44 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

@Saturnus, your scheme for clearing the sand is nice, but is more complicated than it needs to be.  There is no need for automation.  You can do it without any tech (other than the tech needed to burn the dirt).  In my image, they will clear sand on the foundation block that is there.  What you do is you place the building, then dig out the block under it before the building is built.

 

Yeah but sand tiles could still form under the bed, so Saturnus's solution is more complete.

 

thanks for the tricks guys, I was overthinking it, assuming that I would need a vertical stack of build orders to cover the whole area under the ph2o vent, but I forgot that when sand tiles are dug, any sand tiles above them will fall downwards. So I just need room on the side for dupes to be able to reach the lowest tiles where the build order is.

 

[Zarquan]

I wouldn't be so sure that sand could fall in.  In this scheme, I would drop the sand on this location from a higher area.  I would probably have an overhang that protects the hole from sand (that could also be mined in this way).  I could also use a wider building, like a cooking station, which would cover a door opening.  I could also only allow duplicants that are non-constructive or not allowed to build in the area, thus negating the need for the missing foundation trick, but that would mean having duplicants that can not build.

[manu_x32]

15 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

I wouldn't be so sure that sand could fall in.  In this scheme, I would drop the sand on this location from a higher area.  I would probably have an overhang that protects the hole from sand (that could also be mined in this way).  I could also use a wider building, like a cooking station, which would cover a door opening.  I could also only allow duplicants that are non-constructive or not allowed to build in the area, thus negating the need for the missing foundation trick, but that would mean having duplicants that can not build.

I would be using a boiler similar to this, where sand comes from ph2o directly, so sand tiles will definitely form anywhere above the metal tiles.  I just need to put the vent higher, put a door on top of the metal tiles and put the build order above it.

[Zarquan]

With this system, I agree.  My plan was to have dirt and fertilizer be put in a storage compactor in a furnace, which lets me control where it falls.  With this scheme, you could still have one dupe allowed in who is not allowed to build.  Then you don't need to worry about it.  Your system does a lot of things.

[manu_x32]

3 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

With this system, I agree.  My plan was to have dirt and fertilizer be put in a storage compactor in a furnace, which lets me control where it falls.  With this scheme, you could still have one dupe allowed in who is not allowed to build.  Then you don't need to worry about it.  Your system does a lot of things.

But if the dupe can't build, will he dig the sand tiles? 

 

[Zarquan]

I believe they will (I can't be certain right now, I can't open the game right now).  You can set it on a high priority too, so that the space will always be as clear as possible.