How to control substances that sublimate or evaporate?

[Byste]

I suppose this is a dumb question in that I should know all this by now, and I know this info is already "out there" but it's not in an easily found form from the searching I've done.

What conditions prevent the sublimation and evaporation of substances in this game?

I'm talking about solids like bleach stone, polluted dirt, and slime, and liquids like polluted water.

I thought I used to be able to stop pH2O from evaporating by keeping it covered by a gas that wasn't O2 or pO2, but now I'm not so sure. Perhaps the pressure of said gasses is important, or am I just completely wrong here and there's nothing you can do to stop it from creating pO2?

As for solids, I know you can put them underwater, and I know at least oxylite won't sublimate if you keep it in high pressure environment (though I don't know what the threshold is), but I don't feel so sure about how this applies to polluted dirt, slime, and bleach stone.

I also have no idea if temperature factors in to this at all. In real life, gas laws depend on temperature, but I'm not convinced this is true for ONI with the exception of (static?) boiling and melting points.

Please help. It would help a lot with designing my power plants and wtf to do about storing slime for mushrooms.

[Reaniel]

Keep them under water is probably the most reliable way.

Temperature doesn't play a factor.

High pressure environment will stop it from gassing, but it's not too reliable, especially if it's in a room with dupes coming and going.

[FR4NK]

I place my PH2O in a vacuum so it wont outgas.

Bleach stone and slime get placed in storage containers that are submerged in water.

 

[The Plum Gate]

You can also dump some clean water in the polluted water - this prevents it from outgassing.

I usually add some polluted ice or ice to my basins - the lower temperatures kill the germs, not always practical to do early in the colony, but I have a tendency to feed all my waste water to thimble reed plants.

[Whispershade]

1 hour ago, Byste said:

I thought I used to be able to stop pH2O from evaporating by keeping it covered by a gas that wasn't O2 or pO2, but now I'm not so sure. Perhaps the pressure of said gasses is important, or am I just completely wrong here and there's nothing you can do to stop it from creating pO2?

You were not wrong but it has changed. In AU polluted water only converted in the presence Oxygen or Polluted Oxygen. When I started playing with Outbreak I found it a little annoying at all the polluted O2 coming from the water even when in hydrogen and CO2 atmospheres.

I have heard, but not personally observed that cold temperatures can stop slime from sublimating. I'm not sure what temperature it was supposed to be but somewhere around -30c. In my current colony, once I get my power array and cooling setup I planned to experiment with freezing out slime biomes to kill off slimelung and see if it can be used to prevent slime from sublimating.

[Byste]

5 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

I have heard, but not personally observed that cold temperatures can stop slime from sublimating. I'm not sure what temperature it was supposed to be but somewhere around -30c. In my current colony, once I get my power array and cooling setup I planned to experiment with freezing out slime biomes to kill off slimelung and see if it can be used to prevent slime from sublimating.

That doesn't appear to be true. Though it does appear to kill slimelung.

[Byste]

26 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

You can also dump some clean water in the polluted water - this prevents it from outgassing.

I usually add some polluted ice or ice to my basins - the lower temperatures kill the germs, not always practical to do early in the colony, but I have a tendency to feed all my waste water to thimble reed plants.

So clean water will always float on top of polluted water, you just need enough to create an unbroken membrane?

[Whispershade]

8 minutes ago, Byste said:

That doesn't appear to be true. Though it does appear to kill slimelung.

Excellent, that's good to know, thanks. I guess I'll go back to my idea for liquid chlorine storage.

[Byste]

17 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

You were not wrong but it has changed. In AU polluted water only converted in the presence Oxygen or Polluted Oxygen. When I started playing with Outbreak I found it a little annoying at all the polluted O2 coming from the water even when in hydrogen and CO2 atmospheres.

So it's official that polluted water will spawn pO2 regardless of pressure as long as it is exposed to any type of gas? I wanted to use drip PO2 to cool down my power plant, but it's not going to work as-is if the room just saturates with pO2...

[Whispershade]

Just now, Byste said:

So it's official that polluted water will spawn pO2 regardless of pressure as long as it is exposed to any type of gas?

I don't recall any Dev comments on the topic specifically, but I can guarantee that is how it is now. In AU I made a whole system of flowing polluted water for use in temperature regulation that was smothered in CO2 or hydrogen to prevent outgassing. In Outbreak it was quickly apparent that despite being in covered in CO2 my waste water tank was outgassing Polluted O2 (that's how I first noticed it) and was forced to put deodorizers around it. I then went on to build a hydrogen chamber with flowing polluted water from natgas generators and it were spitting out polluted oxygen, too.

The lack of pressure check on polluted oxygen generation from polluted water is what creates those 10-200kg airbubbles in the slime biome.

The only thing I remember them mentioning about polluted oxygen from polluted water is that they claimed to have slowed it down a bit, early on in the closed beta.

[brummbar7]

23 minutes ago, Byste said:

So it's official that polluted water will spawn pO2 regardless of pressure as long as it is exposed to any type of gas? I wanted to use drip PO2 to cool down my power plant, but it's not going to work as-is if the room just saturates with pO2...

Well, if the the polluted water does not contain slime lung (which I think is pretty hard to have happen), then just put a deodorizer in the area.  The PO becomes O2, no problem.  If the issue is the oxygen displacing hydrogen or something, then ya that'll take more proactive measures.

[Byste]

14 minutes ago, brummbar7 said:

Well, if the the polluted water does not contain slime lung (which I think is pretty hard to have happen), then just put a deodorizer in the area.  The PO becomes O2, no problem.  If the issue is the oxygen displacing hydrogen or something, then ya that'll take more proactive measures.

The problem is if the water nonstop makes pO2 regardless of pressure, then this room will keep rising in pressure, which will be problematic since I wanted to vent CO2 in there for carbon skimmer. I wanted to keep the skimmer in there because raining pH2O on it keeps it cool along with all the other machinery. Taking skimmer out fixes all my problems except how to keep the skimmer cool, but I suppose I can find a way to do that, it's just far less elegant.

[The Plum Gate]

2 hours ago, Byste said:

So clean water will always float on top of polluted water, you just need enough to create an unbroken membrane?

Right. But use wisely, it's impractical to undo this. The exception being cooling it to the point where the water freezes and PW remains very cold.

[Sevio]

26 minutes ago, Byste said:

The problem is if the water nonstop makes pO2 regardless of pressure, then this room will keep rising in pressure, which will be problematic since I wanted to vent CO2 in there for carbon skimmer. I wanted to keep the skimmer in there because raining pH2O on it keeps it cool along with all the other machinery.

You can avoid pressure buildup by adding a Polluted Oxygen siphon with the exit at the top left of the room, similar to this Electrolyzer design. As long as it is a one-tile exit, all the polluted (and normal) oxygen will bottle up there and CO2 won't get into it. You could also make the siphon vertical and put the pump room above the roof instead of to the side.

[Byste]

2 minutes ago, Sevio said:

You can avoid pressure buildup by adding a Polluted Oxygen siphon with the exit at the top left of the room, similar to this Electrolyzer design. As long as it is a one-tile exit, all the polluted (and normal) oxygen will bottle up there and CO2 won't get into it. You could also make the siphon vertical and put the pump room above the roof instead of to the side.

 

Yeah I think that's what I'll do, I left space at the top so I can build that in later and figured I'd let it play out for now to get a feel for the pO2 rate.

[Lifegrow]

4 hours ago, Byste said:

So it's official that polluted water will spawn pO2 regardless of pressure as long as it is exposed to any type of gas? I wanted to use drip PO2 to cool down my power plant, but it's not going to work as-is if the room just saturates with pO2...

Yeah, gas doesn't seem to matter providing there is some.

Makes builds like this an option for feeding your pufts or generating PO2 for making liquid O2.

There was a thread about it started a couple of weeks back.

 

[Whispershade]

4 hours ago, Byste said:

Taking skimmer out fixes all my problems except how to keep the skimmer cool, but I suppose I can find a way to do that, it's just far less elegant.

It is not terribly necessary to actively work to cooldown skimmers. By their nature they tend to cool themselves as long as you hook them up with atmo switches that prevent them from vacuuming a room.

The heat from the skimmer gets radiated to the CO2 which they then destroy.

In the spoiler are some pictures of my scrubber setup and its thermal.

Spoiler

Now the exceptional coldness is because I'm piping the CO2 from my Natural Gas Generators, which I refrigerate. But I can say that scrubbers in this configuration (assuming abyssalite piping) can run basically indefinitely even in thermally isolated rooms as long as the CO2 isn't piped in at absurd temps like 100+ going in. I'd say, at long as you avoid vacuum and letting it get smothered in hot chlorine, you should be ok.

In this case I knew the CO2 would be cold so I made the housing out of granite thinking it would help mitigate some ambient heat. It as a little more effective than I imagined considering the gasses are the least conductive in the game. It was originally a hot (caustic/purple) biome

[Byste]

23 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

It is not terribly necessary to actively work to cooldown skimmers. By their nature they tend to cool themselves as long as you hook them up with atmo switches that prevent them from vacuuming a room.

It is necessary for a single skimmer that is cleaning up for 4 nat gas generators, that's >100% uptime...

This is the setup I went for. It's turning out that I'm not getting a pO2 problem despite the cascading pH2O everywhere, which is going against what everyone else was talking about, but who knows maybe I just need to wait a few hundred cycles.

Spoiler

 

[Whispershade]

1 hour ago, Byste said:

It is necessary for a single skimmer that is cleaning up for 4 nat gas generators, that's >100% uptime...

My scrubber setup was originally just 3 setup to handle 7 natgas generators. At least 2 in that configuration were running at 100%. (The third is just in case the room pressure starts building to the point of backup) I expanded it to 4 to give overhead for adding another 4 to put it at 11.

I've run plenty 100%, as long as you have atmo switches to keep the room pressure up and the CO2 isn't floating close to the overtemp you're fine. I almost always used gold amalgam to give me more overhead for hotter configs.

[Byste]

You're refrigerating your generators though. My skimmer is in the same room as my generators and I'm not providing any cooling at all except with the pH2O output of the skimmer itself. If I wasn't drip cooling the skimmer in a setup like this it definitely overheats, been there done that. I like the elegance of the way my system takes care of itself, I was just concerned about the pH2O creating an overabundance of pO2. I'm glad I didn't change setups, this seems to still be working excellently, and if in the future I do get a pO2 problem I have space to add a pump on top to take pO2 out.

[The Plum Gate]

So how is the sublimation number in the daily reports derived?