Geyser cooling too easy, is this an exploit?

[manu_x32]

While prototyping geyser cooling systems with crude oil radiators, I found that mixing it with a water/ice waterfall made it way too easy and quick to cool water. I'm not yet very familiar with all the know bugs and exploits, so I'm wondering if this is using one or more exploits?  I've read in a couple of threads that water dropping has some bugs.

I know that crude oil is getting nerfed in the update, but I guess it will still be efficient. And this could well be achieved with an hydrogen radiator instead.  The aquatuner is running in the video, but it rarely runs, so the system is pretty cheap, and you could add wheezeworths in the waterfall to help reduce it.

Save file: Steam geyser crude oil radiator.sav

 

[Risu]

Yeah falling water is known to cause a completely wrong decrease in temperature.
 

[manu_x32]

4 minutes ago, Risu said:

Yeah falling water is known to cause a completely wrong decrease in temperature.
 

ok thanks. I wonder if a similar system would still work to a certain degree if the bug gets fixed.  I guess it would require more power and more fine tuning of the switches to find the right balance, but it feels like it could still work especially when there is ice drips.

My previous prototype has a separate water chamber to temperate the effect of the new geyser water, works very well but bigger. Waterfall was working so well that I thought I would make version that is a bit more compact (still pretty big, lol).  

[GreatGameDota]

Yea it's the most used system for cooling geysers and it's very exploity. I'm pretty sure it has to do with low mass of water insta-cooling any water below it, but it could be other factors.

[0xygen]

we all using the same method but different shape. it seems you dont even need oil if you are using Thermo aquatuner. and it is easy if using 1200w machine

[manu_x32]

26 minutes ago, 0xygen said:

we all using the same method but different shape. it seems you dont even need oil if you are using Thermo aquatuner. and it is easy if using 1200w machine

oil just seems to change temperature slower, the aqua tuner runs way less. And having a closed loop on the radiator makes it spread the cold for way longer.

[Reaniel]

Here's the testing thread by @Sevio which recreated precisely how the cooling bug works:

 

 

So if you have colder water flowing first horizontally and then fall down, it will rapidly cool whatever body of hot water you have down below.

Direct dripping of cold water into hot water via a vent will NOT create the bug (for whatever reason).

And no, you don't need that many tiles for creating waterfalls.  Just one single tile under the vent will suffice.

[manu_x32]

Thanks Reaniel. I have been trying to go through that exhausting thread for a couple of days, because I was prototyping a polluted water treatment plant.  The info in there is a bit hard to properly understand and digest, there is so many posts, and finding the right information on all the questions that people are trying to answer in there is a bit hard. 

 So in my case with the geyser waterfall, the bug is there simply because it touches airflow tiles after dripping from the vent? (I guess we can consider that a tiny movement to the side.) 

I put so many tiles in there to help spreading the cold from top to bottom across all the statues.

 

[Ciderblock]

26 minutes ago, manu_x32 said:

Thanks Reaniel. I have been trying to go through that exhausting thread for a couple of days, because I was prototyping a polluted water treatment plant.  The info in there is a bit hard to properly understand and digest, there is so many posts, and finding the right information on all the questions that people are trying to answer in there is a bit hard. 

 So in my case with the geyser waterfall, the bug is there simply because it touches airflow tiles after dripping from the vent? (I guess we can consider that a tiny movement to the side.) 

I put so many tiles in there to help spreading the cold from top to bottom across all the statues.

 

The bug has to do with small amounts of cold liquid hitting a large reservoir of warm liquid. This should slightly cool the resulting mixture. For example, in the ideal tthermodynamics situation, if you add 1g of water at 10C to 999g of water at 90C, a short time later you should have 1000g of water at 89.92C. But in game it achieves much more cooling than that. The airflow tiles are used to interrupt the falling liquid, allowing it to break into many smaller packets to trigger more of these glitchy events.

[manu_x32]

21 minutes ago, Ciderblock said:

The bug has to do with small amounts of cold liquid hitting a large reservoir of warm liquid. This should slightly cool the resulting mixture. For example, mixing 1g of a material at 10C and 999g of the same material at 90C and allowing it to equilibrate should result in a temperature of 89.92C, quite close to 90C. But in game it achieves much more cooling than that. The airflow tiles are used to interrupt the falling liquid, allowing it to break into many smaller packets to trigger more of these glitchy events.

I had to do some test to see for myself.  I was not getting the difference between dripping directly from a vent, and free falling from a tile. The bug only happens in free falling, as Reaniel said. The bug is huge, dropping 1 kg of 10C water in 1000kg of water at 100C, drops the temp almost down to the temp of the little drip:  13C.

[Sevio]

2 hours ago, manu_x32 said:

I had to do some test to see for myself.  I was not getting the difference between dripping directly from a vent, and free falling from a tile. The bug only happens in free falling, as Reaniel said. The bug is huge, dropping 1 kg of 10C water in 1000kg of water at 100C, drops the temp almost down to the temp of the little drip:  13C.

This is also what complicated iterating on the boilers in the Water Plumbing Experiment thread, as avoiding this glitch is paramount to a good boiler. And that's why you see polluted water being fed into a lower channel and being pushed upwards towards the Aquatuner. In the earlier designs that use a valve to control input rate, setting it just slightly too high will create a new tiny layer of polluted water over the basin, with the lower temperature of the input water. This causes the entire basin to cool down a lot, forcing you to shut it down and wasting a good cycle's worth or more of Aquatuner runtime.

I got around having to deal with those spills by making it self regulating in the final design that I posted.

[manu_x32]

1 hour ago, Sevio said:

This is also what complicated iterating on the boilers in the Water Plumbing Experiment thread, as avoiding this glitch is paramount to a good boiler. And that's why you see polluted water being fed into a lower channel and being pushed upwards towards the Aquatuner...

I wonder if something like this would work, saving a bit on the pump that pushes to the aqua tuner, and I think you wouldn't get over pressure in the tunnels.  But the aqua tuner may be slower to heat the water because it's in contact with more water, the exchanger would have to bring the water to a very high temp.  

You think the bug would happen in this kind of tunneling?  I don't yet fully grasp all the different occurrences of the bug.

[Sevio]

17 hours ago, manu_x32 said:

I wonder if something like this would work, saving a bit on the pump that pushes to the aqua tuner, and I think you wouldn't get over pressure in the tunnels.  But the aqua tuner may be slower to heat the water because it's in contact with more water, the exchanger would have to bring the water to a very high temp.  

You think the bug would happen in this kind of tunneling?  I don't yet fully grasp all the different occurrences of the bug.

An interesting idea, I think this could work heat glitch-wise and save some power on pumping water. Though its size will make the boiler very slow to heat up and cool down and making it self-regulate its input would be challenging because the water channel will have a lot of inertia going behind it once the pump that feeds water into it gets shut down.

[manu_x32]

11 hours ago, Sevio said:

An interesting idea, I think this could work heat glitch-wise and save some power on pumping water. Though its size will make the boiler very slow to heat up and cool down and making it self-regulate its input would be challenging because the water channel will have a lot of inertia going behind it once the pump that feeds water into it gets shut down.

You're, right, I tried something similar and it takes too much time for water to move through and refill the end area.