Yuyuko Mod! [Feedback Thread + Opinion poll]

[code4240]

EDIT: Okay, she's gotten an update! I tried to take the feedback into account and added the hunger rate scaling + sanity resistance stuff that was discussed, and I also made the sanity cost an over-time instead of instant. I also finally fixed that crappy portrait. full details are on the workshop post.

Pre Aug 2:

I'm close to finishing my first character mod! You can find info on it here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=975191969

I'd like to know if anyone has any feedback besides the poll I've posted.

Edited August 2, 2017 by code4240

[ZupaleX]

Great artwork I'd say

[Lumina]

The hat as an item seems balanced. I quickly looked at your mod, i just hope your insta kill option don't work on bosses.

Your art is great.

[spideswine]

Is there something I'm missing or is she a bit on the weak side?

Her skill is basically killing 5 weak creatures for the cost of all of her sanity, I'm assuming she can't kill things when she can't afford the sanity price, otherwise that would be completely broken(can just spam it on creatures then on nightmares).

Gains and loses sanity based on hunger: I haven't seen the specific numbers, but sanity just isn't that big of a deal either way.

250 max sanity- same as above.

250 max hunger- kinda helpful I guess.

50% increased hunger loss- ouch, that hurts.

Unless I'm missing something wilson is stronger, and wilson is very subpar to things like wicker/wolfgang/wigfrid/wx/maxwell, naturally maybe you are aiming for this power level, I'm just pointing this out in case you're not.

Or maybe I've missed something?

[code4240]

5 hours ago, spideswine said:

Is there something I'm missing or is she a bit on the weak side?

Her skill is basically killing 5 weak creatures for the cost of all of her sanity, I'm assuming she can't kill things when she can't afford the sanity price, otherwise that would be completely broken(can just spam it on creatures then on nightmares).

Gains and loses sanity based on hunger: I haven't seen the specific numbers, but sanity just isn't that big of a deal either way.

250 max sanity- same as above.

250 max hunger- kinda helpful I guess.

50% increased hunger loss- ouch, that hurts.

Unless I'm missing something wilson is stronger, and wilson is very subpar to things like wicker/wolfgang/wigfrid/wx/maxwell, naturally maybe you are aiming for this power level, I'm just pointing this out in case you're not.

Or maybe I've missed something?

She's not specifically intended to be weak, but balancing an ability that can instakill anything with less than 600 hp from a screen away is really hard.

[spideswine]

1 hour ago, code4240 said:

She's not specifically intended to be weak, but balancing an ability that can instakill anything with less than 600 hp from a screen away is really hard.

Just to make sure I didn't misunderstand something.

We're talking about max 500 health right? as she has a cap of 250 sanity.

Also it's based off of max hp, not current hp, so basically she can instakill a bunch of basic mobs at a big hit to her sanity.

I can see it as neat during hound attacks, and to maybe save some time hunting mctusk, but assuming she can't use it if her sanity isn't high enough(otherwise it will end up with her just killing nightmare creatures with it and it being bat**** broken), it's really not that strong, at least not as far as I can tell.

I'm curious as to the areas where you think this ability can shine at current status, because I just can't figure them out(the current utility against hound attacks just doesn't justify a 50% increase in hunger rate imo).

Edit: Also unrelated to balance, I've tried her in game and she's bright, I mean REALLY bright, hurts my eyes sort of bright.

Maybe it's just something in my settings though, worth seeing if others share the same issue I guess.

Edited July 26, 2017 by spideswine

[Lumina]

37 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Maybe it's just something in my settings though, worth seeing if others share the same issue I guess.

She is pretty bright on the screenshot in the first post for me. Not really annoying because i don't stare at it for a long time, but could be more annoying in game i guess.

[spideswine]

this is what she looks like in game for me

[code4240]

On 7/26/2017 at 4:17 PM, spideswine said:

Just to make sure I didn't misunderstand something.

We're talking about max 500 health right? as she has a cap of 250 sanity.

Also it's based off of max hp, not current hp, so basically she can instakill a bunch of basic mobs at a big hit to her sanity.

I can see it as neat during hound attacks, and to maybe save some time hunting mctusk, but assuming she can't use it if her sanity isn't high enough(otherwise it will end up with her just killing nightmare creatures with it and it being bat**** broken), it's really not that strong, at least not as far as I can tell.

I'm curious as to the areas where you think this ability can shine at current status, because I just can't figure them out(the current utility against hound attacks just doesn't justify a 50% increase in hunger rate imo).

Edit: Also unrelated to balance, I've tried her in game and she's bright, I mean REALLY bright, hurts my eyes sort of bright.

Maybe it's just something in my settings though, worth seeing if others share the same issue I guess.

Yeah, I was pretty iffy about the glow thing. I will remove it for now. Might make it happen conditionally later on.

I actually am planning to add phantom mobs which spawn from enemies killed by her ability, which will make it more useful, but I have to teach myself how to animate fire before I can actually finish making those so that will take a while. (unless someone wants to do that for me lol) I actually do have the entities in the game already, but they don't aid in combat or anything like that, so right now they're pretty much like small moving endothermic fires that drain sanity from players that aren't ghosts. And they are using placeholder animations since using the default fire animation doesn't allow me to give them animations for spawning or ability use.

I hope to give yuyuko custom weapons that are based on her abilities from the touhou games which consume a small amount of sanity on use and scale in damage / area with the number of phantoms yuyuko has following her, but that's not currently being worked on just yet.

While those phantoms will make her ability stronger on her own, I thought about the things that were brought up and decided to make the following changes:

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Max Hunger (300)
Max Sanity (200)
Hunger rate: 1.2x

Instead of having passive sanity regen and drain, she now converts hunger into sanity when her sanity isn't full and her hunger is above 100. The rate at which this happens is doubled when her hunger is above 200.
This gives her a sort of wolfgang-esque playstyle where she becomes more powerful when her hunger is higher. Not sure if I want the higher hunger drain to be permanent, or just only happen when her sanity isn't full. Basically this gives a permanent straw roll effect if her hunger is above 100.

She also loses half as much sanity from eating bad foods and gains twice as much from good foods (assuming it has a sanity boost at all), though I was planning to add this anyway. It helps with the sanity regen and incentivizes using crockpot foods which tend to have sanity benefits.

I've reduced the cost of the ability to 20% current health instead of maximum health, but I've also set it so it can't be used if it would bring her sanity below 33%. So now it's cheaper but she can't make herself go completely insane with it. ( might buff her max sanity and raise the cutoff to 50%, not sure). And now she can use it as a finisher for high health mobs. This will synergize better with the phantoms when they are added, since there will be different phantom tiers and bosses will drop greater phantoms or something.

Basically what this means is that she can sustain her abilities more by eating.

I'll have to work on what the actual ratio of hunger - sanity conversion is. It's currently 1:1 though it is on top of her normal hunger rate of 1.2x so her overall hunger drain will be a lot higher than normal when that's happening.

(I've also made her hat a craftable hat with durability that gives the same sanity regen as the top hat and has the same silk cost, but with the added benefit of reducing how much sanity she drains from nearby players when her own sanity is low. I might change how that particular mechanic works once I've playtested the new setup.)

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Basically if you imagine a cross between wolfgang and maxwell, where maxwell sacrifices hunger instead of health for his sanity regen and instead of shadow clones he has special magic abilities. That's pretty much where this is headed.

I'd also love to think of a way to make her seem more "ghosty" but I can't think of a way to do that without making her op. I might add a config option that just makes her dead from the start but still able to use all her abilities that's disabled by default. Doing that would be way down on the list of priorities though.

I haven't uploaded these changes to the workshop yet, I'm just testing them locally, but any thoughts based on what I've written?

Edited July 30, 2017 by code4240
Accidentally typed max health instead of max hunger

[spideswine]

Based on the amount of things which are WIP it's kinda hard to tell, I think that 300 hp base is too much,  I also think wilsons 150 base is too little, maybe somewhere from 190 to 230?

Aside from that I think that the concept of using sanity as mana could be interesting, but I'm not sure fueling it through hunger is a very good approach, as you'll probably want the ability to regenerate it quickly in fights, but if you allow it she'll just end up ignoring sanity in most scenarios.

Maybe increase hunger rate heavily(think x5?) past a certain threshold, making it restore sanity at a rapid pace, but for this to work well you'll likely want to reduce her sanity pool and reduce the ratio(say to 150 sanity and 20% current hp), that way she can use sanity restoring food and high hunger food as sort of mana potions, but discourage eating a lot as a way to ignore sanity completely(poor hunger into sanity conversion ratio, but fast sanity restoration in a fight).

Kind of hard to tell without actually trying it in game, I'm also not too sure if you want her to use her abilities multiple times in a single fight, or use them a couple of times in the start of it->finish fight-> eat-> fight again, I'm assuming the former.

[code4240]

2 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Based on the amount of things which are WIP it's kinda hard to tell, I think that 300 hp base is too much,  I also think wilsons 150 base is too little, maybe somewhere from 190 to 230?

Yeah that was a typo, I meant max hunger 300

[code4240]

12 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Aside from that I think that the concept of using sanity as mana could be interesting, but I'm not sure fueling it through hunger is a very good approach, as you'll probably want the ability to regenerate it quickly in fights, but if you allow it she'll just end up ignoring sanity in most scenarios.

Maybe increase hunger rate heavily(think x5?) past a certain threshold, making it restore sanity at a rapid pace, but for this to work well you'll likely want to reduce her sanity pool and reduce the ratio(say to 150 sanity and 20% current hp), that way she can use sanity restoring food and high hunger food as sort of mana potions, but discourage eating a lot as a way to ignore sanity completely(poor hunger into sanity conversion ratio, but fast sanity restoration in a fight).

Kind of hard to tell without actually trying it in game, I'm also not too sure if you want her to use her abilities multiple times in a single fight, or use them a couple of times in the start of it->finish fight-> eat-> fight again, I'm assuming the former.

hmm
Maybe I should just make her abilities use hunger instead of sanity. That would probably be a lot simpler tbh.
I still like the idea of her regenerating sanity when full, so I might just revert that back to the lower level it was before and make her abilities consume hunger instead of sanity. And probably do an overtime hunger consumption so it's not instant.

[code4240]

Another idea I had was just giving her a resistance to all forms of sanity loss when her hunger is full, including the uses of her abilities. I thought the regen might be simpler but if it's too strong I'll think about it.

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, code4240 said:

Another idea I had was just giving her a resistance to all forms of sanity loss when her hunger is full, including the uses of her abilities. I thought the regen might be simpler but if it's too strong I'll think about it.

I doubt it'll be too strong but it will likely be boring, insanity resistance(not sure about to it affecting her ability) can be more interesting depending on mechanics.

Take wolfgang for example, past a certain threshold the more hunger he has the stronger he gets, but it comes with the downside that he also loses more hunger: there's a decision to be made here.

Keeping hunger above a certain level is in most cases a very trivial task, without much room for decisions, it'll be basically "this character regens sanity for free", now this isn't exactly a very big strength(It's just sanity), but it's not a very interesting mechanic.

Now insanity loss reduction isn't something you'll always want...as long as there's a price to pay(similar to wolfgangs increased hunger the mightier he gets).

If it just goes by thresholds it'll likely end up as mostly a passive benefit.

[code4240]

Just now, spideswine said:

I doubt it'll be too strong but it will likely be boring, insanity resistance(not sure about to it affecting her ability) can be more interesting depending on mechanics.

Take wolfgang for example, past a certain threshold the more hunger he has the stronger he gets, but it comes with the downside that he also loses more hunger: there's a decision to be made here.

Keeping hunger above a certain level is in most cases a very trivial task, without much room for decisions, it'll be basically "this character regens sanity for free", now this isn't exactly a very big strength(It's just sanity), but it's not a very interesting mechanic.

Now insanity loss reduction isn't something you'll always want...as long as there's a price to pay(similar to wolfgangs increased hunger the mightier he gets).

If it just goes by thresholds it'll likely end up as mostly a passive benefit.

Yes, I plan to use increased hunger rate at certain levels just like wolfgang most likely, if I don't use the hunger conversion mechanic.

[KirbyJParasol]

• Great in-game art, though portrait looks very out of place
• Nice to see her attributes are trying to stay faithful to source material
• Instakill is lolOP if she can cast w/o the required sanity

[code4240]

On 7/30/2017 at 2:25 PM, KirbyJParasol said:

• Great in-game art, though portrait looks very out of place
• Nice to see her attributes are trying to stay faithful to source material
• Instakill is lolOP if she can cast w/o the required sanity

Yeah I'm gonna remake the portrait, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
And no it can't cast without the required sanity.

[code4240]

Ok, I made a big update based on the feedback and fixed a bunch of stuff! Main topic edited to reflect!